Collagen 32-35mm casings for smoked sausage

[KonaRich]

This is not a discussion of natural vs collagen casings. I'm not arguing the merits of natural casings. It's a discussion regarding the merits of collagen for someone who makes sausages only twice a year in 5-7 lb batches...maybe, three times.

I'm swayed toward collagen due to its ease of use on stuffing day, and the very long term storage life of unused casings, if properly stored, which stay in the "accordion tube" it came in and can be placed back on the shelf for 4-6 months, then come out for use immediately, with no prep required.

That ease of use and storage length overcomes, in my mind, any shortfall collagen may have over natural for non-snack-stick sausages I intend to make.

I'm considering the Hakka 7 lb vertical stuffer for only $129 on amazon. I'm also looking at LEM 32mm Clear Smoked Collagen Casings. It costs $18 and stuffs 21 lbs per pack. I can make 3 7-lb batches of different sausages. I've read these casings twist into links well, if not overstuffed. I've already bought 16 oz of cure #1 which should last a good long time for sausages and Canadian bacon made from pork loin.

21 lbs of sausage will last us a LONG time! We smoked 2 Costco St Louis style ribs something like 7 months ago, and still have 2 "dinner for 2" portions left. This leads me to think we'll be making 7 lbs of sausage twice a year.

Where am I going wrong, and what other things should I consider?

 

[Fueling Around]

I don't stuff much sausage in a year, but it really depends on the year, too.
Most of my sausage is simple bulk pack.

...
I'm swayed toward collagen due to its ease of use on stuffing day, and the very long term storage life of unused casings, which stay in the "accordion tube" it came in and can be placed back on the shelf for 4-6 months, then come out for use immediately, with no prep required.

That ease of use and storage length overcomes, in my mind, any shortfall collagen may have over natural for non-snack-stick sausages I intend to make.
...
Where am I going wrong, and what other things should I consider?

I have very little experience with collagen, but the package I bought had a stated short shelf life after opening.
I don't know if any natural casing has a stated shelf life. The packages I purchase do not any use by date and I have kept them in liquid storage for over a year.

 

[KonaRich]

I don't stuff much sausage in a year, but it really depends on the year, too.
Most of my sausage is simple bulk pack.

I have very little experience with collagen, but the package I bought had a stated short shelf life after opening.
I don't know if any natural casing has a stated shelf life. The packages I purchase do not any use by date and I have kept them in liquid storage for over a year.

I've read about that shelf life issue, but many pros say that really proper storage of open-package casings can last 12-24 months. They recommend zip loc bags, maybe a packet of desiccant in there, kept out of light, not in the fridge.

 

[JckDanls 07]

See now I am of the "Keep Collagen Refrigerated" camp... As that's what it says to do on the casings I buy... I will say that they are just the 19mm size though, But I wouldn't think size would matter... I've also been told that by some of the masters here as well ...

If your just making fresh sausage to cook hot at a later date, cure #1 is not necessary ..

 

[chopsaw]

Dave Omak is the one that told me about different types of collogen casings . There's a good video here that talks about the different types and uses . Scroll down the page , " Choosing your casings "

Collagen Sausage Casings for Snack Sticks & Brats | Walton’s

Shop collagen sausage casings for snack sticks, brats, and smoked sausage. Edible casings with uniform sizing and dependable performance.

waltons.com

I stuff a bunch of sausage , and use natural the most , but the cellulous non edible for skinless sausage are nice , and may be an option for you . Easy to work with , and from my expreience last a long time .
These are 28 mm . Makes a nice size hot dog or brat . Most Brats are in the 32 mm range , but the 28's would work in my opinion . I say that because I haven't seen the cellulous over 28 mm .

Hot dogs in 26 mm .
They won't twist , so I just tie them off .

Fits good on a bun .

 

[KonaRich]

See now I am of the "Keep Collagen Refrigerated" camp... As that's what it says to do on the casings I buy... I will say that they are just the 19mm size though, But I wouldn't think size would matter... I've also been told that by some of the masters here as well ...

If your just making fresh sausage to cook hot at a later date, cure #1 is not necessary ..

The "don't refrigerate" crowd are concerned with moisture condensation after removal from the fridge. Maybe if they're in a zip loc bag with the air sucked out and left there until returning to room temp before removing, this wouldn't be an issue. Moisture, apparently, is bad.

What casings do you buy? I'm leaning towards LEM. I'll be making a combo of fresh and smoked sausage, so I'll need casings for smoking. Any problem using them for fresh sausage? I have a pound of cure#1 ordered.

 

[KonaRich]

This is not a discussion of natural vs collagen casings. I'm not arguing the merits of natural casings. It's a discussion regarding the merits of collagen for someone who makes sausages only twice a year in 5-7 lb batches...maybe, three times.

I'm swayed toward collagen due to its ease of use on stuffing day, and the very long term storage life of unused casings, if properly stored, which stay in the "accordion tube" it came in and can be placed back on the shelf for 4-6 months, then come out for use immediately, with no prep required.

That ease of use and storage length overcomes, in my mind, any shortfall collagen may have over natural for non-snack-stick sausages I intend to make.

I'm considering the Hakka 7 lb vertical stuffer for only $129 on amazon. I'm also looking at LEM 32mm Clear Smoked Collagen Casings. It costs $18 and stuffs 21 lbs per pack. I can make 3 7-lb batches of different sausages. I've read these casings twist into links well, if not overstuffed. I've already bought 16 oz of cure #1 which should last a good long time for sausages and Canadian bacon made from pork loin.

21 lbs of sausage will last us a LONG time! We smoked 2 Costco St Louis style ribs something like 7 months ago, and still have 2 "dinner for 2" portions left. This leads me to think we'll be making 7 lbs of sausage twice a year.

Where am I going wrong, and what other thingsI

This is not a discussion of natural vs collagen casings. I'm not arguing the merits of natural casings. It's a discussion regarding the merits of collagen for someone who makes sausages only twice a year in 5-7 lb batches...maybe, three times.

I'm swayed toward collagen due to its ease of use on stuffing day, and the very long term storage life of unused casings, if properly stored, which stay in the "accordion tube" it came in and can be placed back on the shelf for 4-6 months, then come out for use immediately, with no prep required.

That ease of use and storage length overcomes, in my mind, any shortfall collagen may have over natural for non-snack-stick sausages I intend to make.

I'm considering the Hakka 7 lb vertical stuffer for only $129 on amazon. I'm also looking at LEM 32mm Clear Smoked Collagen Casings. It costs $18 and stuffs 21 lbs per pack. I can make 3 7-lb batches of different sausages. I've read these casings twist into links well, if not overstuffed. I've already bought 16 oz of cure #1 which should last a good long time for sausages and Canadian bacon made from pork loin.

21 lbs of sausage will last us a LONG time! We smoked 2 Costco St Louis style ribs something like 7 months ago, and still have 2 "dinner for 2" portions left. This leads me to think we'll be making 7 lbs of sausage twice a year.

Where am I going wrong, and what other things should I consider?

MY THINKING SO FAR:

I haven't pulled the trigger on anything but the cure #1.

Hakka 7 lb vertical stuffer for $129 at Amazon.
LEM 32mm smoked collagen casings at $18/pack. at Amazon. I think 1 pack should handle my needs for 1 year.
LEM sausage seasoning packs for $12 each at Amazon. Each pack can do 25 lbs, so it will suit me for 3 7-lb batches. Lots of seasoning packs offered. Can be modded to taste if required.
Continue to use my trusty Kitchenaid grinder.
Costco pork butt currently at $2.49/lb.
NFDM 1 lb, sourced locally or through Amazon at $19/2 lb.

So, for the low quantity of sausage I want to make/year, where have i gone wrong?

 

[JckDanls 07]

The "don't refrigerate" crowd are concerned with moisture condensation after removal from the fridge. Maybe if they're in a zip loc bag with the air sucked out and left there until returning to room temp before removing, this wouldn't be an issue. Moisture, apparently, is bad.

What casings do you buy? I'm leaning towards LEM. I'll be making a combo of fresh and smoked sausage, so I'll need casings for smoking. Any problem using them for fresh sausage? I have a pound of cure#1 ordered.

I'm confused about the moisture concern... The casings take on moisture when stuffed... I'm under belief that if they dry out to mist them with water/moisture to rehydrate... I'll tag Rick @BGKYSmoker and see if he'll chime in with his thoughts... It is a good idea to vac seal/zip lock left overs to keep them from drying out ... When vac sealing put machine on low and/or wet if available... Don't need to crush them

I buy my seasonings and casings (callogen) at owensbbq.com ... He is a member here... Although looking at their selection of casings, they don't carry the size your looking for...

As for the stuffer... I'm not a big fan of the big elbow coming out of the bottom of the canister... There's a lot of waste there if concerned about waste (I am)... Some say it's ok... They will make patties from it and fry it up...

I strongly suggest THIS STYLE of stuffer... Notice the tube comes out the side not the big elbow on the bottom ... As I said above.. I have the LEM with the metal gears... For your needs plastic gears should be fine...

 

[KonaRich]

I'm confused about the moisture concern... The casings take on moisture when stuffed... I'm under belief that if they dry out to mist them with water/moisture to rehydrate... I'll tag Rick @BGKYSmoker and see if he'll chime in with his thoughts... It is a good idea to vac seal/zip lock left overs to keep them from drying out ... When vac sealing put machine on low and/or wet if available... Don't need to crush them

I buy my seasonings and casings (callogen) at owensbbq.com ... He is a member here... Although looking at their selection of casings, they don't carry the size your looking for...

As for the stuffer... I'm not a big fan of the big elbow coming out of the bottom of the canister... There's a lot of waste there if concerned about waste (I am)... Some say it's ok... They will make patties from it and fry it up...

I strongly suggest THIS STYLE of stuffer... Notice the tube comes out the side not the big elbow on the bottom ... As I said above.. I have the LEM with the metal gears... For your needs plastic gears should be fine...

Thanks for your input! Being new to this, I'm whipsawed by "equal but opposite experts", including Copilot, my AI advisor. I want to get quality materials, but not overspend considering my low probable use.

I'm still unclear about collagen casings...dry, wet, refrig, kitchen cabinet...so many opinions! I'm still believe collagen is better than natural for my situation, though. Until I actually try it and taste it, I won't really know.

I need advice from experienced users, not just sellers.

A 5 lb stuffer seems more rational given that so all the seasoning packages are for either 5 lbs or 20-25 lb. I want to balance the effort required to make sausage, including clean-up, with the output of a given session. That's why I thought of the 7 lb unit. More output for the effort. I can always make 5 lbs in a 7 lb stuffer when using seasoning kits if I want. 7 lb batches for home seasonings.

The elimination of the Hakka horn for the Vivor straight out is a definite improvement. How much left-over meat is in the Vivor versus the Hakka. Less, I suppose. Either way, a sausage patty at the end will be done. Both have metal gears, I believe.

I'll have to do more research on collagen casings, but I'm sold on thier efficiency. I can only hope we like the resulting sausages.

Thanks so much for your input!

Given the shipping charges to Hawaii, I'm trying to get all that I need from Amazon. Prime has saved us many hundreds of dollars over the years.

 

[JckDanls 07]

I cannot make any suggestions on collagens for sausages that will be cooked/smoked/grilled... I only use them for snack sticks...
Yes, the stuffer with the tube straight out the side is much less waste... more goes into the link rather than having to make more patties out of the waste...
I understand about the shipping...
With a little patience you will get all you need to know right here at SMF... Just the right people have to see the thread...
@BGKYSmoker
@boykjo
Just to name a couple...

 

[Polka]

Hey just saw this post. I have a 7# Hakka stuffer. I use LEM because I buy it off the shelf at Academy. I use zip ties instead of string. I smoke them, but occasionally it will be chewy. Lem is better than some brands as they don't blow out as much when stuffing. I use the 32mm for brats and franks. I've simmered them, and they can still blow out or be chewy. My own cooking for myself, no company coming, so I am not too concerned, tho I sure feel happy and proud when all things work good. Don't do snack sticks much, but haven't tried on the new stuffer. I've had it a year, and make 5# batches. I've started beef sticks/summer sausage and pepperoni, but don't have a formula I like yet. I use beef and chicken thighs (whole) and trim the bones out, grinding the rest. I Cure #1 all of it. Sometimes even my bulk b'fast chicken sausge -- tastes better to me. Enjoy the journey, and keep us updated. Take care. R

 

[KonaRich]

Hey just saw this post. I have a 7# Hakka stuffer. I use LEM because I buy it off the shelf at Academy. I use zip ties instead of string. I smoke them, but occasionally it will be chewy. Lem is better than some brands as they don't blow out as much when stuffing. I use the 32mm for brats and franks. I've simmered them, and they can still blow out or be chewy. My own cooking for myself, no company coming, so I am not too concerned, tho I sure feel happy and proud when all things work good. Don't do snack sticks much, but haven't tried on the new stuffer. I've had it a year, and make 5# batches. I've started beef sticks/summer sausage and pepperoni, but don't have a formula I like yet. I use beef and chicken thighs (whole) and trim the bones out, grinding the rest. I Cure #1 all of it. Sometimes even my bulk b'fast chicken sausge -- tastes better to me. Enjoy the journey, and keep us updated. Take care. R

Thanks for the input! I'm glad you've had good experienced with the Hakka. I'm very close to buying it. Your experience with LEM casings sounds pretty much what I've read. Blowouts happen if they are overstuffed. They have a very strong rep and following.

LEM makes seasonings for summer sausage, pepperoni, salami, and various flavors of snack stick. I'm going to try them out. I know they're not going to produce "real" pepperoni or salami, but reviews indicate they're good, and without the longer process to create real ones.

 

[ingridhol95]

Been down the same road and landed close to where you are. I stuff about 8 to 10 lb a year, so I could never justify babysitting a bucket of natural casings either.
One thing I would add on your storage question: moisture is the real enemy, not the fridge itself. What kills open collagen is going from cold to warm while still sealed up, because condensation forms right on the tubes. If you do keep them cold, let the bag sit closed until it hits room temp before you open it.
I run LEM 32mm on brats and they have held up fine, though the ends get chewy when I push them too full. Learned to leave a little slack at the tie and they stopped blowing out.

 

[boykjo]

IMO it's a matter of preference. There are two types of collagens. Fresh and smoked. Fresh collagen casings are thinner and more translucent, offering a delicate bite and cooked appearance. These casings are used for sausages like breakfast links, bratwurst, Italian sausage and chorizo. The smoked collagens are for snack sticks, brats, hot dogs and summer sausages. I tried the fresh collagen casings once and they disintegrated when I cooked them in a fry pan, so I never used them again. Not sure what went wrong there so I stuck to my naturals. I suggest you use natural casings as a beginner. You'll have better results until you get the hang of sausage making. My 2 cents

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/how-to-handle-natural-casings.159729/

Boykjo

 

[KonaRich]

Been down the same road and landed close to where you are. I stuff about 8 to 10 lb a year, so I could never justify babysitting a bucket of natural casings either.
One thing I would add on your storage question: moisture is the real enemy, not the fridge itself. What kills open collagen is going from cold to warm while still sealed up, because condensation forms right on the tubes. If you do keep them cold, let the bag sit closed until it hits room temp before you open it.
I run LEM 32mm on brats and they have held up fine, though the ends get chewy when I push them too full. Learned to leave a little slack at the tie and they stopped blowing out

IMO it's a matter of preference. There are two types of collagens. Fresh and smoked. Fresh collagen casings are thinner and more translucent, offering a delicate bite and cooked appearance. These casings are used for sausages like breakfast links, bratwurst, Italian sausage and chorizo. The smoked collagens are for snack sticks, brats, hot dogs and summer sausages. I tried the fresh collagen casings once and they disintegrated when I cooked them in a fry pan, so I never used them again. Not sure what went wrong there so I stuck to my naturals. I suggest you use natural casings as a beginner. You'll have better results until you get the hang of sausage making. My 2 cents

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/how-to-handle-natural-casings.159729/

Boykjo

Thanks for your input, but I'm pretty much fixed on smoked collagen casings for every sausage I make. Almost everything will be smoked, and these casings are thicker, able to handle more situations.