need some help resturant smoking

[justin85]

A local resturant is wanting me to do some smoking a couple days a week for them. We will be splitting profits 60/40 after all my costs are paid. I have never done anything like this only home smoking and 1 competition.the owner just wants me to do pulled pork the first couple weeks then ribs. I would like to use fresh meat but I do not know of any butchers in my home town (its a rural town) but I have never actually looked in the surounding area. Does anyone know any in soutwest virginia? also what type general sauce would be good to use that would be good for everyone? And what are some ways to keep the meat fresh after it has been cooked? Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[daveomak]

Justin, evening....  If I have it right, you are providing the smoker, the wood, the meat, gasoline, the seasonings and the time to prepare everything and pick up and deliver the meat, and he is going to give you 60% of the profit of what is sold ?????  What about a license ?? Do you need a license to prepare and sell food in Virginia ???   All the guy has to do is pick the meat off of the smoker and put it on a plate.... 

Who prices the meat for the retail sale ???  

Justin, with what I can see here, you need a different business partner....    I could be totally wrong....  I have been before.....  At first glance, you are being taken advantage of....    Just my not so humble opinion....  Dave 

 

[justin85]

Good evening Dave. All my costs get paid before we split the profit. After everything is paid then I get 60% of what's left and he gets 40%. And I don't think I have to have a license. He already owns the restaurant and wants me to come in a couple nights a week and smoke.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

This whole idea goes against the US Food Code. You will not be in compliance and it leaves yourself and your partner open for a barrage of violations. All it takes is for a health inspector to visit the restaurant (they can drop in at any time during normal business hours for any reason...they don't really need a reason) and see or hear of smoked items being served, and that will lead them to an interview with the PIC (person in charge) and they will also want to see the smoker, food prep area, and, last but not least, a written and approved variance including the entire process for smoking and low & slow cooking for each type of smoked meat being served. If any part of the equipment or process is non-compliant, it's checked on the inspection list as non-compliant. If serious health or safety violations are cited, or numerous areas of non-compliance, they can order that operations cease. They can discuss with you what needs to be done to correct the issues, and give a time frame to take correct action, but in this case, I feel you would be shut-down altogether. This is not a state or local regulatory system you are dealing with, it's on the federal level.

It's been 8 or 9 months since I last read the 2009 Food Code, but that was one of the areas of interest for me back then (smoking, low & slow cooking, grinding meats, curing, etc, all on-site), as I was planning to start a mobile Bbq concession for semi-retirement. My advice is that you need to look at the big picture here, and really decide if you want to do this on a commercial level or not...it gets serious right up front, long before you ever fire up for the first smoke, so don't go into it blindly.

Start you education right here: http://prochefblog.com/public_pics/foodcode2009/2009foodcode.pdf

EDIT: page 584 of the 2009 Food Code is the beginning of the section pertaining to curing and smoking.

EDIT: annex 7 of the table of contents gives a list of descriptions for Model Forms, Guides and Other Aids...a brief variance description is listed in alphabetical order (bottom of the list in the document).

Good luck!

Eric

 

[justin85]

Thanks for all the info ill be sure to research that.

 

[so ms smoker]

  That doesn't sound so bad. You will be smoking at his restaurant? Can he order the meat from his regular suppliers? That would be the easiest way to go. As for sauce I believe your area prefers a vinegar based sauce. You can search this forum for some ideas.Don't forget Soflaquers finishing sauce for the pulled pork! It is awesome.

  As to fresh, refridgerate or freeze if needed. PP reheats easily. Hope this helps some.

Just saw forluvofsmokes post. He is correct. All food safty rules must be followed. Food to be sold in the restaurant must be prepared there. Hot foods hot, cold foods cold. Don't take a chance on making someone sick.

Mike

 

[justin85]

Yes it will be at his restaurant. I am not some if he can get the meat from his supplier or not :/ yes that finishing sauce is quite great. Would freezing take away anything from the pork? And would a food handling permit be good enough for just what I'm doing?
Thanks Mike!

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Yes it will be at his restaurant. I am not some if he can get the meat from his supplier or not :/ yes that finishing sauce is quite great. Would freezing take away anything from the pork? And would a food handling permit be good enough for just what I'm doing?
Thanks Mike!

Ah, that does simplify things quite a bit. The owner will still need the written and approved variances, an NSF approved smoker, etc. If smoking will be accomplished in something other than an actual smoker, that equipment must be NSF approved as well, and a variance for the smoking process with that piece of equipment must be approved.

I'm not sure how many hoops you'll need to jump through if you pick up the meat and transport to his facility, especially if it's not in a refrigerated environment. Temp monitoring (thermometer calibration documents), time in transit (start/finish), etc. may need to be documented for each batch delivered to the restaurant, along with where it was stored, temp, and some sort of batch numbering system to keep documents in order and accurate...again, not sure, but it seems like I recall something along those lines.

You do not need to be certified as a food handler, although if you are under contract with the owner instead of being a direct employee, could imply the need for a permit, and possibly the responsibility of being the PIC for the meat smoking. Here's one legal loop-hole you may consider checking into: if you prepare the smoked meats for a commission (to get your 60% of the profits), and not under a contract, you could be considered an employee, covered under his permits. Also, the owner or PIC does not need to be certified either, as long the PIC has a full working knowledge of the operations on site as well as the Food Code, and there is always a PIC on site during business hours. The PIC may not be knowledgeable of the requirements for smoking, low & slow cooking, etc, so that will need to be addressed, along with the necessary variances.

Just got to thinking about the all-night smokes with pork butts, etc: a PIC may need to be on site during all cooking, but not sure on that one...if so, that would probably have to be you, unless it's a 24-hr service establishment.

As Mike said, not so bad...it's do-able!

Eric

 

[so ms smoker]

  See what Liberalism does for you!

 

[alblancher]

Sounds like a great opportunity to find out if you want to do this kind of stuff for a living.   Not sure how you don't qualify as a part time employee?  I'd do some research on insurance.  Who gets sued if someone gets sick?

 

[justin85]

Sounds like I have a lot of research and figuring out to do on that part. I don't think his supplier has the meat ill need so I need to find a way to get it (perferably fresh meat) would freezing pork and then thawing it to use take anything away from it? I always heard to not to use frozen stuff in the restaurant business. Also what could I do to keep the meat hot and fresh after it has been cooked?

Culinary arts/business is what I want to go into in college (I'm 17) so I think this would be great experience for me

Thanks everyone

 

[alblancher]

I am impressed.  A young person with a level head and the desire to work hard to be successful

Thanks for being part of this forum!

 

[justin85]

Thank you sir. You all have helped me a lot!

 

[michael ark]

Sysco can usely get you all the meat you would need. If that don't work a lot of us get our meat at sam's and cosco. Just freeze it till you need it or go a day or 2 before you need it. I think their is a site called eatwild.com that can hook you up with farmers in you state. I got the link from pop's. Good luckThumbs Up

 

[justin85]

Ill check sysco out thanks. The closest sams is about an hour and a half away from where I live. Ill also check out eatwild.com. would freezing take away ataste or anything from the meat?
Thanks for the help!

 

[smokedhawk]

Sorry,but here is one more thing for you to check out.In my state (Wisconsin) restrauants are not allowed to purchase any food items from grocery stores they have to purchase from approved suppliers.

 

[justin85]

yes ill definetly have to check that out hanks

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Sounds like I have a lot of research and figuring out to do on that part. I don't think his supplier has the meat ill need so I need to find a way to get it (perferably fresh meat) would freezing pork and then thawing it to use take anything away from it? I always heard to not to use frozen stuff in the restaurant business. Also what could I do to keep the meat hot and fresh after it has been cooked?

Culinary arts/business is what I want to go into in college (I'm 17) so I think this would be great experience for me

Thanks everyone

You will have some purge of natural liquid from meats during the thawing process, though this loss is minimal, so should not be reason for concern. You just don't want to re-freeze raw meats, as every thaw presents the opportunity for further liquid purge, as well as reduces the refrigerated life of the meat, regarding freshness, and it also complicates keeping an accurate account of the total time the meat has actually been in a thawed/refrigerated state.

Steam table pans are in use in virtually every restaurant, especially those offering a buffet style of dining. That would be your best route for keeping pulled pork safe and ready to eat on demand. 135* minimum holding temp, and discard hot foods within 4 hours if not held at the proper temp, as I recall.

Ribs, depending on the style, are best served straight from the smoker. Wet ribs could be held at the minimum 135* and should not suffer degradation of texture if held for shorter lengths of time, though they may begin to soften-up after a few hours. Dry ribs would likely not hold at temp very well, regarding texture, as the bark will begin to soften immediately upon being covered, due to the high humidity while under a cover. Any meat which you want to have a prominent bark could be placed under a heat lamp without a cover, possibly using bottom heat with the steam table as well, and this will eliminate the high humidity issue. Of course, the holding equipment needs to be NSF approved and the holding method also must meet the appropriate Food Code rules. Just some basic tips to follow...

Sounds like you'll be a step ahead of the game by studying the Food Code if you're going into culinary arts...it should be snap to get through that portion of your training with a jump-start on your studies.

I am impressed.  A young person with a level head and the desire to work hard to be successful

Thanks for being part of this forum!

Gotta agree 100%. With a good attitude and an open mind with the willingness to learn, you will be successful.

Yes also to being here on the forums, Justin! We need more of the younger generations to be here learning how to keep the craft alive by putting their knowledge to practical use, and carrying it forward for others to learn from as well. If I were 30 years younger...wish I knew then what I know now...I'd probably have gone the same route you're planning on for.

Eric

 

[michael ark]

On keeping ribs get for a rack for a pan that holds them up.out of the liquid andput them on stove.

 

[gunner69]

I would be willing to bet that 75% of the smokers in use today in the US are not NFS certified. The exception being commercially available pits ie Southern Pride, etc.