MES won’t stop heating

[tallbm]

I admit, I didn't read all 10 pages and I may be wrong and please correct me if I'm wrong but in your description of rewiring MES write up (first post) you basically bypassed (dummied) control board and got a same result and symptoms as what jdk2007 dealing with... I didn't see PID and SSR included in rewiring to make MES fully functional...

Unless, I am wrong cuz my mind is set to build instead of buying "plug and play"... I was looking for PID ( proportional integral derivate ) and SSR and never thought about DTS ( Digital temp. controler )...my bad...
tallbm rewire works perfect if rewired MES is plugged in to Inkbird nd Inkbird plugged in to outlet... good stuff...

Yeah the 1st post in that thread bypasses the MES controller electronics making it dumb where the chord feeds power directly to the heating element with no control period... basically what jdk2007 is seeing. jdk2007 is already getting that effect without rewiring but in my mind his board could continue to fail in any variety of ways causing different or even more unexpected, uncontrolled behavior so I would recommend just rewiring rather than keeping a failing component in the mix.

My post doesnt cover building a PID + SSR but buying an Auber Plug n Play PID for $150 or building on yourself is the next step. The rewire just makes the MES PID ready.

If buying a controller Digital Temp Controller you have to take into consideration 2 things.
1. What are it's amperage/wattage limitations? You cant hook up a 10 amp (1200watt) MES to a controller that cannot handle 10amps. Also with electricity you probably want something that has MORE than a 10amp limit and handles more like 12amp +
I believe there is a best practice with electricity to overshoot your needs by like 10% to handle any variety of electrical issues. So if you get a controller that can ONLY handle 10amps it has a good chance of failing at some point. At the very least think of it like a 10amp controller is running at it's limit the entire time when a 10amp device is pulling max current. Nothing holds up running at it's upper limit forever.

2. What is the max temp range it can handle.


Finally, a PID controller will be far superior to something like that Inkbird Digital Temp controller. I own one of those inkbirds for a different purpose and it temp swings just like the old MES did.
With a PID controller you can hold temp right on or with in 1-3 degrees of set temp.
This kind of precision is valuable if you want to do sausage or bacon where you want to avoid temp swings that cause fatout. Also with a PID controller your temp range is pretty much limited to what the temp probes can handle or how many digits you can fit into the display (3 digits = 999 max hahah).

So to wrap it all up. The rewire is to make the MES dumb and ready to use with 3rd party controller. The 3rd party controller you get better be able to safely and effectively handle running an MES. A PID controller is going to be the best controller performing and most applicable controller for the job of doing any kind of smoke you can think of :)

 

[dernektambura]

Finally, a PID controller will be far superior to something like that Inkbird Digital Temp controller. I own one of those inkbirds for a different purpose and it temp swings just like the old MES did.

Just out of curiosity... as I said before, I don't own Inkbird but does it Inkbird have a setup option called "hysterisis"? If it does and if hysterisis option is turned OFF, or set up at wide range it will mess up temperature monitoring and heater ON/OFF cycles...
The heating hysteresis is basically the range outside the set temp to turn on the heating ON or OFF...
for example, if your set value is 200F, and heating hysteresis is 2, then it will start heating when the temp drops to 188F.

 

[zwiller]

I rushed posting that controller. I didn't really research in depth and was just threw out that for an example. I remember paying like $200 for an old analog fridge controller for homebrewing years ago. It's shocking to me to see the technology this cheap so I jumped the gun.

I am still researching all this PID/controller stuff. I actually use PID as a blanket term for accurate controller. I think the Auber is a great controller and professional grade. I think for me it's too much for my needs with the steps and recipe storage and odds are I will fry my smoker running some poultry @ 325F.

Back on the Inkbird. Yes it does have hysteresis, they call it "heating differential value". Range is 1-30F. See below. If gung ho PID and DIY there is an option:

 

[tallbm]

Just out of curiosity... as I said before, I don't own Inkbird but does it Inkbird have a setup option called "hysterisis"? If it does and if hysterisis option is turned OFF, or set up at wide range it will mess up temperature monitoring and heater ON/OFF cycles...
The heating hysteresis is basically the range outside the set temp to turn on the heating ON or OFF...
for example, if your set value is 200F, and heating hysteresis is 2, then it will start heating when the temp drops to 188F.

[Edited to be correct.]
This Inkbird Unit has no hysteresis settings of any kind. It has settings to help protect things like compressors or itself but no hysteresis like you are asking about. It's a good little controller for non-critical/non-precise temp stuff but is basically the same thing the MES and normal oven's do today. The differential settings didn't work too well in my one application to hold a drum of thick liquid at a fairly steady temp range. I still had considerable temp swings.

Now for anyone that is curious, the Inkbird PID that zwiller just posted above (Post #43), that sucker will do the job and comes with an SSR that is rated for 40Amps so way more than 10Amps.
One thing to know about that particular PID is that it is all Celsius so if that is a deal breaker for then you basically get one that can do F or C and get a project box to fit it all then you are in business :)

BTW for anyone wiring in a fuse holder to protect the controller electronics the cheap Chinese ones all melt down after a period of time, just like the switches, and other components from China no mater if they are 20Amp rated. I think this fuseholder will do the trick and I have on in waiting when my current Chinese fuse holder melts down soon. It's a single unit and more costly but is like 10x the quality when just holding and looking at it:

I got so pissed off at Chinese rocker switches failing I bought a 100Aamp marine (boat) breaker switch to use as my on/off switch to the PID controler I built hahaha. If you get a toggle switch used for vehicles that can handle 20amp or more that should do the trick as well. I just wanted no more failures and went stupid on mine after burning up 5 Chinese 20Amp rated rocker switches hahaha.

 

[zwiller]

tallbm Can you please explain more about the differences of the inkbird temp differential value and why it is not hysteresis? Maybe my post is not clear but the cheapo Inkbird appears to have some range control. I seem lost... Still learning. THANKS

 

[chopsaw]

Not sure if this is what's being talked about , but
The ones that also control refrigeration don't hold the precise temps . Basically on / off because compressors can't / don't like to start against a high head pressure . System pressure needs to equalize before restarting .

 

[tallbm]

tallbm Can you please explain more about the differences of the inkbird temp differential value and why it is not hysteresis? Maybe my post is not clear but the cheapo Inkbird appears to have some range control. I seem lost... Still learning. THANKS

I see the confusion. I looked quickly at the features listed for the ITC-308 (plug looking controller). I own one but seldom use it hahaha. It DOES have a heating and cooling differential value so my apologies in missing it. They cover it in the pictures not the bulleted feature/spec list. I know when fiddling with mine I couldn't get it to cut the swings down too much but you are right it does have some hysteresis to it that you can play with.
My application was trying to keep a drum of liquid at a tighter temp and I was able to limp by with it but able to rely on it. Not the same as controlling an electric smoker so maybe it fairs better or worse, provided someone wants to try and can live with it's max temp limitaion



The ITC-100VH is a full blown PID where the P-I-D settings cover hysteresis behavior in a much more finely tunable manner.

Thanks for asking the question and clearing up the confusion I was causing. I'll go back and edit my previous post to eliminate inaccurate info being out there in the world. I can't stand to be a source of bad information hahaha :)