Mes quit during the night.

[Jonok]

Jimmy, I don’t know how much hair you have, but I knew, after having read the first few comments in this string that you’d be tearing some of it out when you got around to reading this

 

[chef jimmyj]

LOL...It's ok. The best benefit of SMF, Hundreds of People have your Back. There are viable answers and the specific answer that leaves no doubt or question.
There are many posts on smokers dying. The Instant reaction is Danger, but Food Safety is not Black or White. 99% of the time No One Issue or Mistake, is enough to cause a problem. Example, the Smoker Dies...AND...Inject Pork never gets above 140°F. Bacteria would be in the center with food, moister, a comfy temp and plenty of time, TOSS IT. On the Other hand, if the smoker dies after the IT gets hot enough to kill bacteria, it can stay dead for hours as the meat is sterile, no way it can go bad.
Guys will occasionally tell members whose Cooler Rested meat went below 140 to toss it. WHY? Sterile meat, wrapped in sterile foil and clean towels is in a Sealed Cooler! Where in that Whole Sterile package, is any Bacteria that CAN grow? Bacteria can't Crawl in. Even if the cooler was Opened...The Bacteria can't get past Towels, and Foil and on the the meat to star growing! There is just nothing to worry about.
We have good people doing a good job. with this much info there is no need to " Guess " our be paranoid. The answers are here or someone will go find the answer. 20 years Smoking Meat and I NEVER had to Toss a single piece of meat...JJ

 

[jcam222]

The IT got to 150! The SAFE temp for Pork is 145 held 4 minutes. Even IF Injected, the Pasteurization Temp and Time at an IT of 150 is 67 SECONDS!
Why then should the OP Toss the Pork?

There is A LOT to learn about this Magic we make. Rubs, Sauces, Wood and Smoke Flavors. But it all is worthless if the meat makes you sick. You are at SMF one of the greatest SOURCES for Meat Smoking info on the Web. Use the site to its fullest. Read, ask Questions but most importantly LEARN so you can TEACH others coming after you...Having a Working Knowledge of the information below on Food Safe Temperatures and Guidelines is Important. Not only will you ALMOST NEVER have to Toss perfectly good meat again, you will be able to give an accurate answers to the question posed in this and similar threads.
When in Doubt...PM someone who KNOWS the answer!
Thank you for your input guys and Happy Mothers Day...JJ

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/40-to-140-in-4-a-guideline-and-what-to-consider.270191/

Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min... 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min.... 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min.... 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min.... 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min.... 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min.... 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min.... 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min.... 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min.... 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min.... 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min.... 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min...... 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min...... 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min.......
144 (62.2) 5 min.......
145 (62.8) 4 min.......

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).

I for one am always up to learn more. That is why I still have questions on this. I do clearly understand that in hitting 150F for some period of time the meat was at that point safe. What I still cannot get my head around is how long is it safe for the meat to then be stored outside a 40F refrigerator at temps well below 150F. In the OP case the meat was store at above frig temp for some period of time for 85F or so. I have seen local restaurants written up for having cooked meat at temps around 85F and had always assumed that was because of the potential food hazard.

 

[chef jimmyj]

The difference is Exposure. Ten pans of food sitting on a faulty steam table, at 85, open to air and guests coughing, sneezing and picking at it is very different from a piece of meat in a cold smoker in the dead of night. Yes there is bacteria, most harmless, a dozen or so can cause illness, in the air that might find it's way through the exhaust and into the smoker, nothing compared to what is floating around a restaurant, but we don't really need to worry. The meat in the smoker has sat at 225+ for several hours. Enough time for the IT to reach 150 and kill any Bacteria, inside and out. I have posted in, multiple responses, Bacteria need the following to multiply...Food, Moisture, Warmth, a Neutral pH+/-, Oxygen/No Oxygen depending on type and Time to Grow. Take ANY ONE of these perfect conditions away and No Growth! This is why we have Dehydrated Food that is shelf stable for decades. Frozen food that is good a year or more. Homemade Pickles and Sauerkraut that sits in a Sour Brine, uncovered at room temp a year plus. Cryovac packed Beef that stays good 4 weeks when a loosely covered, refrigerated Steak goes bad in 3 days. And by Fed Stardards, a pan of Tuna Salad can sit on a Buffet Table, unwrapped at room temp, 4 hours before it, by law, has to be discarded. This is Everyday stuff. Let's look at the OP'S Meat. The meat, essentially was Fully Cooked. Being it was Intact Meat, ONLY the surface is of concern. While there is Food, aka Protein, there for bacterial growth, a Rub with Salt and Sugar was applied. Both Bind water making very little available to provide Moisture for Bacteria. Being cooked a Bark formed, meaning surface Moisture was evaporated away and virtually no moisture for bacteria. While there was Oxygen, unwrapped meat, the bacteria of most concern, Clostridium Botulinum, causes Botulism, MUST be in an Oxygen Free or very low Oxygen environment. Since the smoker died, there was no burning wood eating up Oxygen, there was plenty . The Smoker was Running at 11pm but died and cooled to 85 by 4:45am, Less Than 5 Hours Later. As I have discussed in my 40 to 140 in 4 hours Article, if meat is safe at 4 hours it is not suddenly Deadly at 5 hours! Studies have shown that the most harmful types of Bacteria take about 8 hours IN PERFECT CONDITIONS to grow to harmful numbers.
IF there is Food but NOTHING else to support Bacterial Growth...There is none! Or at least not until conditions change, and even the most Tired or Drunk among us will find the smoker died be for that!
This is why THERE ARE VERY FEW situations, when Smoking Meat, in which the recommendation to TOSS THE MEAT is Justified!
This is a Ton of info and just the Tip of the Iceberg when it comes to what must be considered handling Food Safety issues. My Dad once told me, " An Expert does not know it All. And Expert just knows where to FIND the answer! "
I hope this answers your question. Anything else, Just Ask. We are here to Learn and Teach....JJ

 

[jcam222]

The difference is Exposure. Ten pans of food sitting on a faulty steam table, at 85, open to air and guests coughing, sneezing and picking at it is very different from a piece of meat in a cold smoker in the dead of night. Yes there is bacteria, most harmless, a dozen or so can cause illness, in the air that might find it's way through the exhaust and into the smoker, nothing compared to what is floating around a restaurant, but we don't really need to worry. The meat in the smoker has sat at 225+ for several hours. Enough time for the IT to reach 150 and kill any Bacteria, inside and out. I have posted in, multiple responses, Bacteria need the following to multiply...Food, Moisture, Warmth, a Neutral pH+/-, Oxygen/No Oxygen depending on type and Time to Grow. Take ANY ONE of these perfect conditions away and No Growth! This is why we have Dehydrated Food that is shelf stable for decades. Frozen food that is good a year or more. Homemade Pickles and Sauerkraut that sits in a Sour Brine, uncovered at room temp a year plus. Cryovac packed Beef that stays good 4 weeks when a loosely covered, refrigerated Steak goes bad in 3 days. And by Fed Stardards, a pan of Tuna Salad can sit on a Buffet Table, unwrapped at room temp, 4 hours before it, by law, has to be discarded. This is Everyday stuff. Let's look at the OP'S Meat. The meat, essentially was Fully Cooked. Being it was Intact Meat, ONLY the surface is of concern. While there is Food, aka Protein, there for bacterial growth, a Rub with Salt and Sugar was applied. Both Bind water making very little available to provide Moisture for Bacteria. Being cooked a Bark formed, meaning surface Moisture was evaporated away and virtually no moisture for bacteria. While there was Oxygen, unwrapped meat, the bacteria of most concern, Clostridium Botulinum, causes Botulism, MUST be in an Oxygen Free or very low Oxygen environment. Since the smoker died, there was no burning wood eating up Oxygen, there was plenty . The Smoker was Running at 11pm but died and cooled to 85 by 4:45am, Less Than 5 Hours Later. As I have discussed in my 40 to 140 in 4 hours Article, if meat is safe at 4 hours it is not suddenly Deadly at 5 hours! Studies have shown that the most harmful types of Bacteria take about 8 hours IN PERFECT CONDITIONS to grow to harmful numbers.
IF there is Food but NOTHING else to support Bacterial Growth...There is none! Or at least not until conditions change, and even the most Tired or Drunk among us will find the smoker died be for that!
This is why THERE ARE VERY FEW situations, when Smoking Meat, in which the recommendation to TOSS THE MEAT is Justified!
This is a Ton of info and just the Tip of the Iceberg when it comes to what must be considered handling Food Safety issues. My Dad once told me, " An Expert does not know it All. And Expert just knows where to FIND the answer! "
I hope this answers your question. Anything else, Just Ask. We are here to Learn and Teach....JJ

Thank you for typing that all out! Very helpful in the quest to learn. There certainly is a lot of misunderstanding amongst many on this. I appreciate such a thorough response. Honestly this and your original should be a sticky :)

 

[Winterrider]

Yes thank you JJ, I was just thinking along the line of how long is food safe on the counter after a meal before refrigerated.

 

[chef jimmyj]

When I went to school, in the 90's, they taught 2 hours without heat or cold holding, like food out at a July 4th Picnic or Super Bowl party. At this point refrigerate or toss it. In 2015, my Mom was in a nursing home. She would get meals in her room. It was always cold and on paper plates. I looked into it and complained. They said the kitchen was under construction and all food was made in a trailer, wheeled, plated and and distributed within 3 hours. If it was cold, I or a staff member could reheat in the microwave. This is risky, especially for sick seniors! I called the Board of Health and spoke to the Inspectors that covered the Nursing Home. He explained that a recent Law change allowed holding times, without heat or refrigeration, to go from 2 to 4 hours and the Nursing Home was in compliance.
The point being, the Fed says up to 4 hours. Honestly, I keep hot food hot and cold food cold. If that is not possible or I am at someone else's house, I eat during the first 2 hours, or reheat to safe temps. If my party and it's winding down, we refrigerate the leftovers after 2 hours. Also, use common sense. 4 hours old Sushi? Aaaa, No! 4 hours old Chips, Dips, Pizza and Crudite, nothing to worry about...JJ

 

[hawtsauc3]

The point being, the Fed says up to 4 hours. Honestly, I keep hot food hot and cold food cold. If that is not possible or I am at someone else's house, I eat during the first 2 hours, or reheat to safe temps. If my party and it's winding down, we refrigerate the leftovers after 2 hours. Also, use common sense. 4 hours old Sushi? Aaaa, No! 4 hours old Chips, Dips, Pizza and Crudite, nothing to worry about...JJ

This! I got food poisoning one from pizza of all things at a music festival, you know one of 2 food items you should always be safe to get. Feeling like you're getting hit with a sledgehammer in your gut for 24 hours is enough to realize, food safety is nothing to mess around with.

 

[chef jimmyj]

I have gotten sick from oil packed fresh Garlic the pizza shop kept on the counter. They put it on the pizza as I was picking it up instead of Cooking the Garlic on.

Growing up in NJ, we had a place that delivered until 3am. Hundreds of times we ate pizza at 2am, after the bars closed, passed out, then finished the pizza 6 hours later. It sat on the table all night. I guess I had a stronger stomach 35 years ago...JJ

 

[hawtsauc3]

I have gotten sick from oil packed fresh Garlic the pizza shop kept on the counter. They put it on the pizza as I was picking it up instead of Cooking the Garlic on.

Growing up in NJ, we had a place that delivered until 3am. Hundreds of times we ate pizza at 2am, after the bars closed, passed out, then finished the pizza 6 hours later. It sat on the table all night. I guess I had a stronger stomach 35 years ago...JJ

I've eaten pizza plenty of times the next day without issue as well, but after getting food poisoning once, its enough to make you realize thigns aren't worth the risk. Why not just refrigerate the pizza after 2 hours? If it saves a day of feeling like death it's worth it.

 

[Bearcarver]

Hmmm, I never had cold Pizza that was left out too long, but then I never went to college either.

Bear

 

[Jonok]

Papa Del's Pizza, in ChamBana, IL, had a business model that involved them selling all of the Thick Pan (and I mean the THICKEST {Pops pizza was known for its Party Size Pops Special which weighed 17 Lbs...}at the time.) that were undeliverable the night before. After about 10 years of just selling the pies in the morning to the hung over college kids (pies that they couldn't deliver to the passed out drunks the night before, even those that had been out for delivery, and/or just sat on top of the oven until it was clear they weren't being delivered), they made a hundred pies each night at closing, and sold those, as well as the bycatch from the day before.
Not really much of anything in terms of food borne illness. I am not sure as to their practices today, (never was advertised), but nothing on their website says they don't still do it, and I never got one that was cold enough to hve spent time in anything but a cardboard box...

 

[averhoeven]

My MES died and did something similar one night. I had a Bluetooth thermometer so I knew the temps were similar to what you're saying. My wife had surprised me the day before that I was cooking for 30 people for someone's birthday party. Pulled pork was my only option at that point. Tossing it was a bad option and I felt it was safe so I threw it in the oven and finished it off. Seems a common issue with the MES and it always seems to be at an inopportune moment .