MES 30" Temperature Zones Part 2 of 2

[muddydogs]

Another thing I noticed was temp probe variation. I had both the Auber and Morpilot probes on the smoker back wall right next to each other and was getting 10 to 20 degree difference in readings. I then moved both probes to rack clips setting side by side and got 10+ degree difference. Next I had the probes in rack clips facing each other with there tips almost touching and still I got a 10+ degree difference. Throughout all my messing around I would think that one of my probes must have gone bad so I would switch probes on the Morpilot and or test all the probes. Each time I tested the Auber probe and the 6 Morpilot probes they all tracked up and down in temp just fine and read 32 degrees in ice water and 204 in boiling water which is perfect for my elevation.
Yesterday I smoked a 5" chub of Tallbm's venison pastrami and decided to hang the probes off of the top rack so they would be hanging about 1/3 of the way down the chub right next to each other and I also clipped another probe to the bottom rack holder so it was sticking out into the smoker box just above my cookie sheet drip pan and wouldn't you know it all three probes read within a few degrees of each other all day long. As I type this I have 2 slabs of Bearcarvers bacon smoking away with the same probe set up and the Auber and Morpilot probes that are next to each other are reading the same and the probe at the bottom of the smoker is reading 5 degrees higher then the two at the top which is perfect considering there is a slab of pork taking up a whole rack between the two.

I have no idea why there was such a temp difference between two probes right next to each other when clipped to a rack and virtually none when the two probes are hung next to each other but I found that there is. This can sure make chasing temps a futile endeavor.

 

[muddydogs]

I've got the WS-1510ELPM Auber but no time to auto tune the Mes Gen 1 40. I need a warm day to do tallbm's ten minute no back removal bypass first. My Mes averages 250* when set to 275* with a roast in it. It'll be nice to get to 275* or a little higher. It took three hours to auto tune the crockpot being slow response and insulated but it's a great 6 qt sou vide and yogurt maker till I can get to the smoker.

I've done 3 or 4 AT at different set temps just to see what the numbers were, most of the AT took less then an hour for my gen 2 MES 40 with ambient temps between 30 and 40 degrees.

 

[dr k]

I liked the swing temps on part 1 also. That was the top shelf after the heat had had some space to spread out. And that and the second from the top is where most all meat would be smoked at.

When I did my first ribs a week or so ago, because of the limited space in the 30" cabinet, I cut the rib rack in half and pit the smaller half on the top and the larger half on shelf 2. I took a cheap disposable alum pan and cut the top section off and put it on the third shelf just as a drip pan to help with cleanup. I left the water pan and chip pan out completely.

I think I need to run a Part 3 and check the temps in the center of each shelf without the aluminum drip tray.




Kurt, you going a little over my head. I know the MES has a safety shutoff when the temps get too high but have no idea where the threshold is at. I am guessing you are saying it is set to turn the heating element off at 302*

Now, when the heating element red light went out meaning the element was off, I still got significant more temperature rise before it started back down.

If your red heating light goes out at the right temp and coasts way into the 350*+ then the controller is working and maybe how the setup inside the smoker is directing heat before the Mes controller sensor gets that temp. I don't know. Even if the the Mes shuts off and coasts that high the snap disk safety sensor should be open eventually since my sensor says 150*C (= 302*F) on the face of it. It should be ok if other tests are <300* on your Smoke therm when the smoker is set to 275*.

 

[Bearcarver]

Thanks Bear. I see the concept and did notice on my testing that the initial run up and the run up when the door had been open was usually sizable. After that run, it generally settled down pretty quick. Many that have not checked ovens or smokers should realize that a 30 to 40 degree swing is not unusual. The setting that is correct is the swing with your desired "set temperature in the middle. So if the temp moves 20 degrees below and then moves back up to 20 degrees above, that is except-able.

I figure many folks think the temp stays right at the set temperature and that is just not so on electric units.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Exactly,
I couple years ago, I was forced to make a Ham in our Kitchen Oven.
I used the same low temps I use in my Smoker, but I had to set it 25° off to get the oven temp average correct.
My MES is actually more accurate than my kitchen oven.

Bear

 

[THW]

If your red heating light goes out at the right temp and coasts way into the 350*+ then the controller is working and maybe how the setup inside the smoker is directing heat before the Mes controller sensor gets that temp. I don't know. Even if the the Mes shuts off and coasts that high the snap disk safety sensor should be open eventually since my sensor says 150*C (= 302*F) on the face of it. It should be ok if other tests are <300* on your Smoke therm when the smoker is set to 275*.

dr k, this is a good point that I had not considered. It would seem that the important temps to consider is when the element (red light) goes on and then off. It would make sense that the arrangement of things (water pan / drip tray) would have a big effect on coasting inside the cabinet.

I have looked some at adding a PID but as I think is natural, am a little sluggish at changing an appliance that I just paid $200 for by adding another $100 to get it to do what I think it should.

I may eventually add a PID after I have learned a lot more about my smoker and about PIDs and how much to spend. I am somewhat of a perfectionist but do realize that I do not need the exact temperature with a tiny swing to get good food. I do however want to know what my smoker is doing. If the back of the smoker is typically hotter, then little things like having the thicker part of the ribs in the hotter area would be good.

Question. One other question. I had the idea that a drip tray like the light aluminum disposable tray in my pictures would be good to help keep the cabinet clean. Is that not a good idea. Am I restricting or focusing heat. I guess the question is should I just let the drippings fall down into the bottom of the cabinet?

Thanks all for your input.

 

[petehalsted]

I have a Later Model Gen 2, that has the top left vent, but still had the slanted drip tray, instead of the 2.5 water pan.

I removed the slanted Drip Tray, water pan, chip tray. And I used some slate tile to create both a heat shield and sinc.

You can see my post from when I did mine here: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/another-mes-30-gen-2-question.270835/ and you can see that other than the initial overrun I don't have wild swings. Not sure if that is because of my Slate or if I just got lucky with my controller, because I never ran the smoker before the mods.

I have slate on hand because I use it in my grill for doing fish, pizza's etc.

I would not use ceramic tiles, you have no way of knowing what was used in the sealing and firing and what they might be off gassing. Slate is a natural product so there is not paint, glaze, etc. on it.

 

[tallbm]

Question. One other question. I had the idea that a drip tray like the light aluminum disposable tray in my pictures would be good to help keep the cabinet clean. Is that not a good idea. Am I restricting or focusing heat. I guess the question is should I just let the drippings fall down into the bottom of the cabinet?

Thanks all for your input.

In the gen1&2 there is a removable drip tray at the bottom of the smoker. The easiest thing is to just foil it and then replace the foil after each smoke or when you feel it should be changed. This makes cleanup a breeze and keeps things tidy :)

 

[THW]

My 2.5 has the removable drip tray in the very bottom, with the drain hole going to the pull out grease trap at the bottom front. I added the foil to the large rectangular drip tray. Then there is a very large oval shaped water tray that in the 2.5, goes entirely from side to side and almost from front to back. Then, to help keep those clean, I put a disposable aluminum tray directly under the ribs on the third shelf, then had the AMNPS centered under that tray on the forth shelf.

Next time I will leave the disposable tray out. Add foil around the water bowl or just leave the water bowl out and use something else spread the heat out. Maybe a piece of tin foil covering part of the bottom wire shelf.

With the Thermoworks Smoke it is easy to do some temperature testing.

 

[tallbm]

My 2.5 has the removable drip tray in the very bottom, with the drain hole going to the pull out grease trap at the bottom front. I added the foil to the large rectangular drip tray. Then there is a very large oval shaped water tray that in the 2.5, goes entirely from side to side and almost from front to back. Then, to help keep those clean, I put a disposable aluminum tray directly under the ribs on the third shelf, then had the AMNPS centered under that tray on the forth shelf.

Next time I will leave the disposable tray out. Add foil around the water bowl or just leave the water bowl out and use something else spread the heat out. Maybe a piece of tin foil covering part of the bottom wire shelf.

With the Thermoworks Smoke it is easy to do some temperature testing.

Ah I see.

I often use a foil pan under my meat to catch the drippings. I foil it as well so that when I pull everything out and rest the meat or put the meat away the drippings are always always foiled right against meat. I then reuse my foil pans a few times until they wear out.

I foiled my water pan as well but I don't ever use it so it is foiled and just put up out of the way lol.

When I do brisket or pork butt I foil and aluminum pan and place it on the bottom rack of the MES.
I then place another rack DIRECTLY on the foiled aluminum pan (not in the rack holders of the MES but on the pan).
I then put the meat right on top of the rack and it drips right into the pan.
This configuration keeps the meat as close as possible to the heating element where I often keep my smoker temp probe since things are most consistent on the bottom rack for me. It's a win-win-win for consistency, cleanliness, and drippings plus foil-ability of the meat :D

 

[dr k]

dr k, this is a good point that I had not considered. It would seem that the important temps to consider is when the element (red light) goes on and then off. It would make sense that the arrangement of things (water pan / drip tray) would have a big effect on coasting inside the cabinet.

I have looked some at adding a PID but as I think is natural, am a little sluggish at changing an appliance that I just paid $200 for by adding another $100 to get it to do what I think it should.

I may eventually add a PID after I have learned a lot more about my smoker and about PIDs and how much to spend. I am somewhat of a perfectionist but do realize that I do not need the exact temperature with a tiny swing to get good food. I do however want to know what my smoker is doing. If the back of the smoker is typically hotter, then little things like having the thicker part of the ribs in the hotter area would be good.

Question. One other question. I had the idea that a drip tray like the light aluminum disposable tray in my pictures would be good to help keep the cabinet clean. Is that not a good idea. Am I restricting or focusing heat. I guess the question is should I just let the drippings fall down into the bottom of the cabinet?

Thanks all for your input.

It seems adequate open space under the water pan to move heat left as it rises gives me identical temps left and right (my top vent in the Gen 1 is on the right.) I use the top rack to manage probe wires and for dishes like mac n cheese and cook on the middle two. The perf SS keeps heat from running straight up the wall and is responsible for even temps with it on the bottom rack and the water pan on top of it. So I'm really only using 1/3 of the perf SS that butts up against the back wall. It doesn't affect my max temp because I never got both my Mes Gen 1 smokers to average 275*. So that's why I want the PID to get to 275*. I really have been having great success leaving food unwrapped the whole smoke at higher temps and have butcher's paper if I do wrap. This set up for even heating won't ever change and I think the open bottom design will work well with the PID having no heat sink surrounding the heating element. I took apart the chip housing and use it as an elevated heat deflector under the element even though the bottom drip pan is elevated to protect the bottom of the smoker. I've seen people have eight butt's in there own pans and others on the racks. It seems the temps are more even with round roasts on the rack instead of a round roast in a pan with a rectangular flat bottom but I do both for easy clean up and with the PID holding more constant temps in a pan or not won't make much of a difference.

You can't see the perf SS in this pick from the water pan being on top of it.

You can see it here.

Bottom heat sheild from chip housing.

 

[Wakulla]

I see what your saying about the extra heat needed to get the heat sink up to temperature but once there I would think it would stabilize temperature swings. I may have to tinker with that concept later. It would seem a more stabile temperature swing would be good. And when the door has to be opened, when it is closed the recovery time should be shorter to get back to stability.Those are all just theory for me at this point.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I have a pizza stone mounted over the chip dispenser for a heat sink. Helps reduce the temperature swings. I also have a thermoworks smoke and noticed that back corner over the chip tray is a hot spot. I hang my air sensor in the middle of the smoker with a grate clip. Also gutted out all the masterbuilt electronics and wired it up with a pid. Now i can set it on 225 and temps vary from 221 to 228 during a complete 12hr smoke cycle. My thermoworks smoke and the pid are always within less than 5 degrees of each other. With the masterbuilt controller temps would vary from 205 to 255 with it set on 225. Actually set 10 to 15 degrees higher because it was always changing.

 

[SmokingUPnorth]

How old is your smoker? The inside looks a lot cleaner than mine lol

 

[Wakulla]

A few years. This is my second one. I do wipe it down and wash the racks and redo all the tin foil every time i use it.

Have ribs on now. Not believing the difference in color of these using the mailbox mod and tray. Only thing i can figure is using the chip tray the smoke is inconsistent and i was probably oversmoking.

Can't wait to bite into them.