MES 20070410 help

[gmc2003]

Just had an interesting thought. We have an outside light. Wonder if one of those screw in outlets would work ?

It may work, but I wouldn't recommend it. Possible fire hazard.
Chris

 

[Atoparok]

I'm just being curious and not argumentative at all...Electronics school was 35 years ago but since when did a properly Grounded appliance in a properly Grounded outlet become so dangerous to operate that you need a GFI? Especially an Indoor appliance like a refer, dishwasher, drier or freezer. Thanks...JJ

Please understand, I don't write the codes and I don't have any intention of determining how the state or federal government comes to their determinations. In NM, it is required to not only GFCI protect appliances, but to also AFCI protect them. I'm not saying that the NM officials are correct, but giving advice contrary to the NEC and / or local electrical codes is ill-advised. That's all I'm saying. If a product trips a brand new GFI receptacle, there is more than likely a problem with the unit...
...Atoparok

 

[larrym]

NEC guidelines. I looked them up. Any outdoor outlet or anything near water requires a gfi. Our new trailer has all gfi's in kitchen and bathrooms, even outlets on a wall.

 

[gmc2003]

I'm just being curious and not argumentative at all...Electronics school was 35 years ago but since when did a properly Grounded appliance in a properly Grounded outlet become so dangerous to operate that you need a GFI? Especially an Indoor appliance like a refer, dishwasher, drier or freezer. Thanks...JJ

My basic understanding is for commercial use then yes. Home use then no. Outlets near a water source area big yes.

I ran smoker up to around 400 for 30 mins on non gfi. Immediately after plugging into gfi, it tripped again. My smoker does not have electrical boxes, just a heating unit that plugs into the heating element. Its like the plug in element on an electric skillet. I guess that means I can not run it off the gfi. Do any new electric smokers work with new gfi's ? :)

I don't own a MES, but can they really reach 400*? I thought 275/280* was the max.

Chris

 

[Atoparok]

It may work, but I wouldn't recommend it. Possible fire hazard.
Chris

Or electrocution hazard...
...Atoparok

 

[Atoparok]

My basic understanding is for commercial use then yes. Home use then no. Outlets near a water source area big yes.



I don't own a MES, but can they really reach 400*? I thought 275/280* was the max.

Chris

This will be my last comment on this thread unless specifically asked for further information. Per 210.8(A)(3), all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles outside of a dwelling unit, including receptacles installed under the eaves of roofs, shall be GFCI-protected. The only exception to this rule is that GFCI protection is not required for fixed electric snow melting or de-icing equipment receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit in accordance with 426.28. ...and state and local agencies can and often do, add to this requirement.

Cheers...
...Atoparok

 

[gmc2003]

lol. Dang, saw your list below. First month we had smoker, wife did the bacon weave on a fattie. Good eating there :) Gonna have to get something going now, been too long.

Glad to hear that. If your looking for something different and very tasty - try the pork shots. Very versatile and always a crowd pleaser.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Chris

 

[gmc2003]

This will be my last comment on this thread unless specifically asked for further information. Per 210.8(A)(3), all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles outside of a dwelling unit, including receptacles installed under the eaves of roofs, shall be GFCI-protected. The only exception to this rule is that GFCI protection is not required for fixed electric snow melting or de-icing equipment receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit in accordance with 426.28. ...and state and local agencies can and often do, add to this requirement.

Cheers...
...Atoparok

Don't leave us now. A well balanced non-confrontational discussion benefits all of us(especially those of us who are lacking in the electrical knowledge department - meaning me). I agree that all outside receptacles need to be GFCI. I was only pointing out that interior receptacles used for appliances such as refrigerators don't have to be. At least in VT. Which by the way is one of the biggest nanny states in the country. I'm learning allot from your input/insight.

Chris

 

[Atoparok]

Don't leave us now. A well balanced non-confrontational discussion benefits all of us(especially those of us who are lacking in the electrical knowledge department - meaning me). I agree that all outside receptacles need to be GFCI. I was only pointing out that interior receptacles used for appliances such as refrigerators don't have to be. At least in VT. Which by the way is one of the biggest nanny states in the country. I'm learning allot from your input/insight.

Chris

I appreciate your response. While GFCI protection may not be required for kitchen appliances by the NEC, many states do require that. California, Texas and New Mexico to name a few. Unfortunately, some also require AFCI protection which makes things even more challenging. My point is that if a device is tripping a GFCI circuit, there's a problem and it probably will get worse. So making "work arounds" is a bit risky and advising others to do so... Well, that's where I hold my breath.

Cheers...
...Atoparok

 

[gmc2003]

Couldn't agree more with your statements. Also I had to look up AFCI, as I've never even heard of that one before. Sounds like a real PITA. This is why I like my WSM. It's fool proof and basic.

Chris

 

[Atoparok]

Couldn't agree more with your statements. Also I had to look up AFCI, as I've never even heard of that one before. Sounds like a real PITA. This is why I like my WSM. It's fool proof and basic.

Chris

It is! It's even worse for vacation homes out in this area. Slight voltage issues can knock out a fridge or freezer. Some of these folks don't come around for 5 or 6 months, depending on what tourist season they are on. ...Big Mess!

Atoparok

 

[larrym]

yes Chris, my old analog smoker actually goes up to around 450f when working. It has a much bigger heating element than the replacement one for it.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Thanks for the details. Codes have changed a great deal over the years. Glad I became a Chef...JJ :D

 

[SonnyE]

I realize I'm only a "newbie", but recommending one to operate an outdoor appliance without GFCI protection is bad practice. I'm certain Masterbuilt, or any other manufacturer, would agree. I couldn't agree with that advise...
...Atoparok

I did not recommend he do that. Maybe reading comprehension is not a strong suit with you? I stated that if it was me, I would run it. But then, having 42 years in the electrical trades, I do have a sense for what I'm doing.
And as a contractor, maybe troubleshooting is not a forte for you either. :confused::rolleyes:

1) He already found that using a non-GFI circuit the unit works fine. So it is NOT his MES30 at fault. It is the GFI, and the newer lower tripping levels of 125 ma sensed ground currant. (Go look at one, I'll wait....)
If his MES was at fault, it would trip any circuit, or burst into flames.

2) My advice to him is solid. But then, you are not the first code worm I've come across in my time. I actually fired one in Wyoming. But he refused to work, and was drinking on the job. Neither acceptable in the electrical field. I was asked to keep an eye on him as a new Electrical Foreman, and he virtually terminated himself. A Licensed Master Electrician. Scoff...

3) I have more qualifications in the Electrical fields than I need bore everyone with. Including a California State License in HAVC and above. Certified to work on any system in the State. Yawn....

This will be my last comment on this thread

Then you rattle on for two more posts. But wait, there's more.....

I would caution you when pecking around my toes, I ware big boots and have squashed other banty roosters in my day.
Have a nice smoke.;)

 

[SonnyE]

Man, am I glad I own a WSM. No electrics f@rt around with. Especially since I'm not very electrically inclined.

Chris

It's OK, Chris. We Love you anyway. :D

 

[larrym]

So,,today I got some 12 gauge romex and plug ends. The romex is thinner than my big extension cord so it does fit and allows door to close. It is a little snug. I know you are not supposed to bend like I did but in all honesty, I have seen worse in some houses. Ran it for about 2 hours, cords stayed cool and no breakers popped :) Wife has approved. Cloudy and breezy, had a tough time trying to get to 400f.

 

[SonnyE]

So,,today I got some 12 gauge romex and plug ends. The romex is thinner than my big extension cord so it does fit and allows door to close. It is a little snug. I know you are not supposed to bend like I did but in all honesty, I have seen worse in some houses. Ran it for about 2 hours, cords stayed cool and no breakers popped :) Wife has approved. Cloudy and breezy, had a tough time trying to get to 400f. View attachment 378257 View attachment 378258 View attachment 378259

Just be very careful Larry.
NM is solid core wire, so bending it, or dragging it around can cause problems. Keep things dry.
And enjoy some Smoking Meat.
Be safe!

 

[larrym]

Just be very careful Larry.
NM is solid core wire, so bending it, or dragging it around can cause problems. Keep things dry.
And enjoy some Smoking Meat.
Be safe!

Thank you and will do. I did inspect covering, no breaks, just a little paint transfer. There is weatherstripping so no metal up against wire. Course no way to inspect wire cores. It did not get hot at the bends though.

 

[Atoparok]

I did not recommend he do that. Maybe reading comprehension is not a strong suit with you? I stated that if it was me, I would run it. But then, having 42 years in the electrical trades, I do have a sense for what I'm doing.
And as a contractor, maybe troubleshooting is not a forte for you either. :confused::rolleyes:

1) He already found that using a non-GFI circuit the unit works fine. So it is NOT his MES30 at fault. It is the GFI, and the newer lower tripping levels of 125 ma sensed ground currant. (Go look at one, I'll wait....)
If his MES was at fault, it would trip any circuit, or burst into flames.

2) My advice to him is solid. But then, you are not the first code worm I've come across in my time. I actually fired one in Wyoming. But he refused to work, and was drinking on the job. Neither acceptable in the electrical field. I was asked to keep an eye on him as a new Electrical Foreman, and he virtually terminated himself. A Licensed Master Electrician. Scoff...

3) I have more qualifications in the Electrical fields than I need bore everyone with. Including a California State License in HAVC and above. Certified to work on any system in the State. Yawn....



Then you rattle on for two more posts. But wait, there's more.....

I would caution you when pecking around my toes, I ware big boots and have squashed other banty roosters in my day.
Have a nice smoke.;)

Didn't intend on ticking you off. I too have qualifications not mentioned. I will leave this conversation where it sits, I was merely concerned about safety. ...and trust me, I'm no code worm. I'm an active contractor / electrician with more than 40 years experience and excellent TS skills.

Good day sir...
...Atoparok

 

[gmc2003]

End of round one, two and three. Gentleman please go to your corners. Lets be civil we're all here to help each other.


Chris