I know nothing, but I need to know what is possible

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by herkysprings, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. herkysprings

    herkysprings Smoking Fanatic

    Recently this year a travesty happened, the Mt Sinai Kosher Hot dog company went out of business.

    Their Polish sausages and all beef hot dogs are no where to be found. Costco's replacements are.... sub par and my friends back home in Canada have limited replacements.

    As the "chef" in my circle of friends, I ahve been tasked with determining the feasability of creating home made Polish sausages to put back in our buns, and beans, and wrapped in the middle of a butterflied chicken breast.

    I need to know if its possible to make this type / texture of sausage, and where to begin.

    I also need a really good starting point of a recipe. The key is that these dogs MUST ahve the same, strong pungent flavour and after flavour!

    For those who never had these polish sausages, just opening a package was enough to know what you were getting in to, but after eating one, they hung on your breath (and burps) for hours.

    Truely good eating...

    Any hints are appreciated!

    EDIT: I have 11 polish sausages left in SUPER deep freeze that I can use to compare if need be.
  2. nate_46

    nate_46 Meat Mopper

    Good question. I am going to be watching this thread closely. What type of stuffer would be recommended for light to medium duty, etc... What type of casings....etc.

    I can't wait to read the replies.
  3. shooterrick

    shooterrick Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I am not familiar with the Polish Dogs you speak but with a decent grinder you can experiment with different polish sausage recipes until you find one close eneoph to modify or a good match without casing them. Once you find the correct recipe you can case in natural sheep, hog, or synthetic calogen casings. Of course I no nothing about kosher requirments so do not take offense to any suggestion please.
  4. werdwolf

    werdwolf Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Can you describe some of the flavors you smell or tasted?

    Can certainly get you some recipes, but need some more info to get that special flavor.

    As for the stuffer, I have a 15 lb from Northern tools and it works great.
  5. deltadude

    deltadude Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Try every butcher shop around where you live, look them up, put their address in your cell's notebook, and check the map location on google. Then when you are in the area stop in and see what they have, when you get lucky and find something like what you want make friends buy some, and after 2 or 3 visits you might get lucky enough to have him reveal his secret. You could also just call around and ask if they make a polish or hot dog similar to Mt Sinai Kosher brand.
  6. hoser

    hoser Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    I make my own kielbasa and smoke it, but am not familiar with the particular brand you're speaking of.

    I would highly recommend Rytek Kutas's book "Great sausage recipes and meat curing"

    It's widely available, and very informative...his basic kielbasa is a good starting point.

    If I have time later, I'll post the kielbasa recipe for you in the appropriate forum.
  7. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Here is one for beef sausage from page 194 in Rytek Kutas's book "Great sausage recipes and meat curing". it also has instructions for 25 LBS but I would try 10 first to see if it is what you want.

    Kosher Style Beef Sausage - Fresh

    Ingredients for 10 LBS

    1 Tb ground white pepper
    1 Tb ground nutmeg
    1 tsp ground ginger
    1 Tb thyme
    5 Tb salt
    3 Tb sugar
    2 cups ice water
    10 lbs chuck

    The meats selected for this sausage should be very high quality and bright in color. Remove all the blood clots, sinews,and gristle. Be sure the meat has been kept at 28 -32' F. before grinding.

    Grinding & Mixing

    Grind all the meats through a 3/8" to 1/2" grinder plate. Place into a mixing tub and add all the ingredients, mix until evenly distributed. (if necessary, you may add ice to keep the mmeat at 32-38' F) Regrind through a 1/8" grinder plate. Remove to stuffer packing tightly and use about 22-24mm lamb casings. Remove to cooler after stuffing.
  8. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Have you tried Hebrew National I believe they are top quality and Kosher..
  9. hog warden

    hog warden Smoking Fanatic

    One of the comments from Rytek's book (which is the place for you to start) was that an experienced sausage maker can smell and taste a sausage and pretty much tell you what's in it. I'd never thought of it that way, but he is probably right.

    Once you get past salt and pepper, is it really that exotic? Probably not more than 4 or 5 additional spices. Heck, they might even be listed on the package. Maybe not the amounts, but which ones.

    The strong, pungent flavor you mention.......what is it? Garlic? Spicy as in hot pepper? Flakes or powder? Any hint of fennel as you might find with Italian?

    As for making it yourself, that's the simple part (except for the smoking....to do that right requires a smoker with good temperature and draft controls.....but you can buy one of those).

    And since Kosher pork is not likely an option, we can assume these are going to be all beef products. But that doesn't change anything but the base you start with.
  10. hoser

    hoser Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Here's the smoked kielbasa recipe Herky


    2 cups ice water
    2 cups soy protein concentrate or non-fat dry milk
    5 Tb salt
    1 Tb sugar
    2 tsp insta-cure #1
    1 Tb black pepper
    2 large cloves garlic
    1 heaping tsp marjorum
    10 lb. boneless pork butts

    Grind the lean meat through 3/8' plate, and the fat meat through 3/16' plate. Place in mixing tub adding all other ingredients and mixing throroughly.

    Stuff into 38-42 mm hog casings, then place on smokehouse sticks spaced properly.

    Hang in a preheated 130 degree smokehouse with dampers wide open. Maintain this temperature until the casings are dry. Gradually increase temperature to 160-165 with dampers 1/4 open. Apply heavy smoke and keep in smoker until internal temp is 152 F.
    Remove from smoker and shower with cold tap water until internal temp is reduced to 110 F. Allow to hang at room temp for 30 minutes, then place in cooler overnight.
  11. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Hoser, if it has to be Kosher it can't be pork.
  12. hoser

    hoser Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Read the original post again Paul...he never said it had to be kosher. He said the name of the company was Mt Sinai Kosher hot dogs.

    He asked for polish sausage recipes
  13. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I read "The key is that these dogs MUST have the same, strong pungent flavour and after flavour!" and thought he meant it also had to be Kosher, Sorry.
  14. marknb

    marknb Meat Mopper

    Hey Herky,

    Not an expert on the subject, but I do read a lot. And I've read large sections of Kutas' book as well as Marianski, Marianski and Gebaroski's book on Polish Sausage, which apparently is a translation of the 'official' Polish government publication on the subject, complete with all the basic recognized recipes. And, what I've gathered is, the basic Polish sausage recipe, the one we in North America would recognize as Polish sausage, or basic Kielbasa, is pork, salt, cure, pepper, garlic, and perhaps some ground coriander or marjoram, smoked.

    I wouldn't think the Mt. Sinai Kosher Hotdog company would risk cross-contamination, so I'd bet (and according to the ingredient list on the back of the packaging) they're an all beef product, probably made with a synthetic, peel-away casing like a lot of hot dogs are, or maybe sheep casings, but definitely not hog!

    FYI, the ingredient lists on food packaging are listed in order by weight, so that might help you in getting your recipe right. Or maybe not, often when you get to the bottom of the list, there's an entry like 'spices', which isn't a help at all.

    Other than that, if the sausage you're talking about is more like a hot dog in texture and design, you'll likely need to learn how to emulsify and poach, both of which are a bit more work than standard sausage making. If its more like a typical sausage, a meat grinder will suffice for getting the right texture.

    Now, if it were me, I'd start with the ingredients list on the store bought packaging, and see where that gets me. Then I'd take a basic recipe, like the Rytek Kutas recipe a number of people here have provided you with, and use it with beef, adding any special ingredients you gleaned from the original product.

    Yep, I think your particular sausage clone is somewhere in between the ingredient list and a few of the real simple basic recipes. That and a lot of trial and error. The beauty being, even mistakes usually turn out pretty dang good!
  15. lcruzen

    lcruzen Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    I've tasted both Mt. Sinai and and Hebrew National are very close in flavor and texture.
  16. herkysprings

    herkysprings Smoking Fanatic

    Thanks for the info everyone. I will begin researching. I think I can borrow a grinder so I'll start there!

    They dont HAVE to be kosher, but the flavour is what I am going for.
  17. herkysprings

    herkysprings Smoking Fanatic

    This part is very true. Although it says polish sausage they are more of a hot dog texture. Hopefully there is some good reading / advice for this.
  18. hog warden

    hog warden Smoking Fanatic

    Unless you get a Rabbi involved, it's fake Kosher anyway. [​IMG]

    But beef it was, so if you want it to taste similar, beef it should be.

    Hot dogs are processed way more than sausage.....more emulsified than what a grinder puts out. But sausage without a lot of extra fat tends to get a congealed look about it that almost looks like it's been processed.

    Did you give some thought to what that "distinctive flavor" was from? Others have posted some recipes. Go through the spice list from those to see if you recognize it.
  19. Sausage making and hot dog making are an art, just like great BBQ. I wish you luck on your journey toward perfection.
  20. herkysprings

    herkysprings Smoking Fanatic

    Is the grinder attachment for the kitchen aid mixer any good? I have been drooling over the mixer for a long time, I thought maybe killing 2 birds with one large foodpad of counter top space I dont have anyway...


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