I have a question about the safety of TurDucken

Discussion in 'Poultry' started by alblancher, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    First things first.  I think Chef Paul Prudohme is a great ambassador for Cajun Cuisine and I respect him greatly for his innovation and ability

    BUT

    I watched a program this weekend where after putting the Turducken together he placed it in a 225 oven for 8 hours. 

    He debones the poultry, stuffs them with fully cooked dressing, rolls them up together and then bakes them.

    For 8 hours at 225?  How is this safe if using the 4 hour rule?  I can not imagine the internal temps getting to 140 degrees in 4 hours with all the stuffing and meat wrapped together.   I don't even cook stuffing in the Thanksgiving turkey for that reason.

    Am I missing something?  Is it realistic to think that you get internal temp to 140 when baking 30 lbs of poultry and dressing?

    I would have thought the oven would be closer to 300 or 325 for the first couple of hours and then turned down to 225 for the long term. 

    There again, if he does it I know its good but I think they made a mistake on the oven temp starting out.

    Thanks for any discussion

    Al
     
  2. biaviian

    biaviian Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member

    I have been wondering the same thing since hearing about it many years ago. 
     
  3. Send him an email and ask him. That does seem scary based on what I have learned from y'all.
     
  4. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    I looked in a John Folse book for his recipe.  Chef Folse recommends 375 for 15-18 min per pound.  A 10 lb turducken takes about 3 hours.  He wants an internal temp of 160.   

    The birds that Chef Paul did looked a lot bigger then 10 lbs.  At 3 lbs an hour  an 8 hour bake would make it a 24 lb turducken. 

    I think he made a mistake when he recorded the oven temp.  I've never done a turducken but if I was comfortable with the smoke time I'd like to put one on the Lang.

    You know you can do a cornish hen, a chicken and then a small turkey for a similar dish. 
     
  5. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    I bet he meant to say 325, but even at that temp., it would not seem possible to get through the danger zone. Especially with the stuffing in it.
     
  6. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I never thought it was a good idea either.

    I'm not even sure 325˚ would cover that much meat in the danger zone.

    375˚ would probably do it, but anything over 275˚ (maybe 300˚) isn't reachable with am MES anyway. 

    Good question AlB.

    Bear
     
  7. alaskanbear

    alaskanbear Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Not a degree under 355 in my book.  To risky and thats alot of great meat to waste.. MHO of course..

    Rich
     
  8. meateater

    meateater Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member

    I'd cure it, then no problem. [​IMG]  I go by USDA not so called Chefs recommendations. 
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  9. oldschoolbbq

    oldschoolbbq Smoking Guru OTBS Member

        Alblancher,the Chef has the Liability to cover a mistake,you don't.Leave the Super Stuff[​IMG]to the pros.

    There are things that I like and want to taste,yet cannot afford to get to to try and I'm not going to kil myself or someone else to get it.A meal like that is a roadtrip.[​IMG]
     
  10. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Very interesting comments and thanks for responding.  I really need to think this through some more.   I agree the Chef has liability insurance! but they still have to live within safety codes set by the state and parish.   I wonder if they serve those great big Turduckens in their restaurant or if they make a much smaller dish that will cook through faster.   At 3 lbs an hour looks like a 12 pound turducken would be safe.  But that is cooking at 325 - 340 degrees

    I know alot of us like to try new dishes so anyone interested in making their first Turducken be aware of the potential problems with getting it cooked all the way through.
     
  11. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    One of the Food Network shows, DDD I think, showed the Chef searing off the Chicken and Duck before assembly. But I don't know if that technique is all that common. Another show was interviewing the company that produces and distributes Turducken frozen and it didn't look like they precooked any of the birds. I don't see a need to try one too soon...JJ
     
  12. roller

    roller Smoking Guru SMF Premier Member

    Anybody price a duck in the stores lately.....
     
  13. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    I have to admit ever since John Maddon introduced these on NFL football TG day.

    I have always wanted to cook on of these.

    This TG day I think I will.

    If I can afford the duck!
     
  14. alblancher

    alblancher Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Hey Al

    Oven or Smoker?
     
  15. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    I'm gonna smoke it, but in my Smoke Vault at 325-350.
     
  16. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Al,

    I felt the same way a couple years ago. Madden made it seem so incredible I developed a mild obsession with the stupid things! I did one a couple years back, and while it really was almost as magically delicious as I'd imagined, there are a couple things I'll do differently if I ever try it again, I went with a 12lb turkey and stuffed with a whole duck and chicken (boned of course). I think a smaller turkey stuffed with only the breasts of the subsequent birds might provide an easier project and a better overall presentation. I also left the skin on the duck to allow the fat to permeate the whole thing. It did, and the result was incredibly moist and flavorful, but the rubbery duck skin really detracted from the overall experience. I'm thinking brining all the birds might work better. I also used 2 different kinds of stuffing, a traditional bread stuffing over the turkey (as I was assembling) then a sweet/spicy cornbread stuffing between the duck and chicken layers. Again, the flavor was off the charts, but it was a little busy. Maybe just a little less stuffing next time. I did mine in the oven, but I didn't yet have a smoker.

    I'm thinking this year I might try something a little different. I have a bunch of pheasants and chuckars (a kind of partridge similar to squab) in the freezer from a recent hunting trip, so maybe a "turphuckar".

    Good luck with your turducken, can't wait to see the q-view!
     
  17. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★


    Thanks for the info. I still haven't found any duck around here, but as we get closer to TG Day they may begin to show up in the grocery stores.
     
  18. adiochiro3

    adiochiro3 Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    I've been contemplating this turducken move myself, but have also been hesitant about temps and the danger zone.  I wonder if you boned the turkey and sort of flattened the whole thing to reduce thickness some & get through the zone in time...
     
  19. michael ark

    michael ark Master of the Pit

    Al i seen some down by the park.All you need is some bread and burlap bag.[​IMG]
     
  20. Paula Deen’s recipe calls for an 18 to 21-pound turkey, 3 to 4-pound duck, and a 3 to 4-pound chicken.

    Her's says to, “Roast turducken for 15 minutes @ 500 degrees F, and then turn the roaster down to 225 degrees F to finish, approximately 3 hours. Remove turducken from roaster once the internal temperature in the chicken reaches 155 degrees F.

    And goes on to state, “If using a smoker to cook, smoke at 225 degrees F for 5 hours, rotating every 20 to 30 minutes until internal temperature reaches 155 degrees F and external temperature reaches 165 degrees F.”

    I'm thinking of doing one myself, but I think I'm going to order one on-line and see what the directions say.

    Paula Deen Link: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/paula-deen/turducken-recipe/index.html
     

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