Got back into pressure canning

[archeryrob]

Yeah no kidding on the civility. FB canning groups they string you up for violating the FDA rules, Its like "Canning Karen's". But 100 years back or so there was only water bath canning and people used it. It is not the preferred method to can low acidic things. I too pressure can meats and such. I was just stating, "You can do it" not that I do, or recommend it.

I wish I has an option for things like peach and pawpaw butter besides adding the lemon the recipes call for. It completely ruins pawpaws when adding the lemon. It's thick stuff and figure it might burn or separate or something when pressure canned?

On the civility. We had chickens raise for meat and eggs and those people would go nuts if you spoke about culling chickens. You can buy them in the store, but you can't eat the ones in your coops? I had to create a new group Maryland chickens, meat and layers, just to avoid the backyard chicken freaks.

 

[thirdeye]

I'm a third generation canner, I mostly do meats like chicken, pork, corned beef* and trout, steelhead and salmon (fresh and smoked).

* About 20 years ago, the USDA realized that no formal testing was ever done on 'cured' meats. So they changed their recommendation to exclude any cured meats from canning. Corned beef was on the hit list.

 

[bhambrewer]

I'm a third generation canner, I mostly do meats like chicken, pork, corned beef* and trout, steelhead and salmon (fresh and smoked).

* About 20 years ago, the USDA realized that no formal testing was ever done on 'cured' meats. So they changed their recommendation to exclude any cured meats from canning. Corned beef was on the hit list.

The Canning Diva has recipes for meals in a jar. She includes a corned beef meal. Pressure canning processing times are the same as for beef, so I don't know what to make of that!

 

[archeryrob]

I tried one of those meal in a jar a year or so ago. Burrito in a jar. Only made one and the seal failed when I went to open it and was white all over the top. I only made one to try and I just never tried again.

I like the ready to eat meals. Stroganoff if good and I double the Worcestershire from the ball recipe. Venison soups. I can my M-i-Laws black beans. I have to leave the sherry out until you heat it up to serve. Canning it and it cooks off and you can't tell it was in there.

 

[thirdeye]

The Canning Diva has recipes for meals in a jar. She includes a corned beef meal. Pressure canning processing times are the same as for beef, so I don't know what to make of that!

I have an older Ball Blue Book, and it has a recipe for corning your beef, and below that it has the method for canning it. Either one or two editions later they removed both recipes. The concern is the density of cured meats, especially something like ham because it may not heat through in the same fashion as fresh meats. Canning of cured and smoked salmon was also discouraged, but the state of Alaska and Washington actually did additional testing because so many residents smoke and can salmon. They changed the processing time to 110 minutes for pints and 1/2 pints, and recommended more water in the canner.

Testing of canned foods was conducted in the 30's through the 50's, then some methods were verified in the 70's or early 80's. Another pet peeve of mine is that 'raw pack' instructions called for no additional liquid, again because liquid was not added when the testing was performed. Raw packed meats always had a lot of headspace. Then later on, enhanced chicken and turkey came on the scene, some with 15% added liquid.... The canning experts let that one slide. Personally, I always added a couple of tablespoons of water or broth to my canned poultry. Then a year or two ago, Ball (or the parent company) tested raw pack with added liquid and it came out fine. So now, it's approved to add liquid.

 

[DailyLunatic]

I'm a third generation canner, I mostly do meats like chicken, pork, corned beef* and trout, steelhead and salmon (fresh and smoked).

* About 20 years ago, the USDA realized that no formal testing was ever done on 'cured' meats. So they changed their recommendation to exclude any cured meats from canning. Corned beef was on the hit list.

I came here to research this very issue. 'Cure Canning Meats.'

I know the meat is raw, and it needs to be cooked, but if Cure#1 is added to prevent botulism, then why are extreme canning pressures/temperatures needed the same as untreated meats? Please note: I make no recommendation with above statement.

I'm looking to make shelf stable SPAM and, so far, when canning, everything has rendered down to dust. (hyperbole, but you get the idea) Pyrophosphate Powder just came in the mail today. Next batch will try with a bit of that. Fingers crossed.

Surely someone has looked at canning meats with cure (...and don't call me Sherly) even if it is not the USDA...

Edit: Please note that I am NOT asking about canning an already cured product (bacon, corned beef, ham, etc.) I am asking about curing 'in the jar'. I.E. adding the ground meat, curing salts, etc, and then sealing and cooking.

-sterling

 

[bill ace 350]

I'm getting ready to pressure can some chicken soup and beef stew.

Will have my Presto and All American running at the same time
In my garage, on my Camp Chef.

Cook pints in one, quarts in the other.

 

[bill ace 350]

I have an older Ball Blue Book, and it has a recipe for corning your beef, and below that it has the method for canning it. Either one or two editions later they removed both recipes. The concern is the density of cured meats, especially something like ham because it may not heat through in the same fashion as fresh meats. Canning of cured and smoked salmon was also discouraged, but the state of Alaska and Washington actually did additional testing because so many residents smoke and can salmon. They changed the processing time to 110 minutes for pints and 1/2 pints, and recommended more water in the canner.

Testing of canned foods was conducted in the 30's through the 50's, then some methods were verified in the 70's or early 80's. Another pet peeve of mine is that 'raw pack' instructions called for no additional liquid, again because liquid was not added when the testing was performed. Raw packed meats always had a lot of headspace. Then later on, enhanced chicken and turkey came on the scene, some with 15% added liquid.... The canning experts let that one slide. Personally, I always added a couple of tablespoons of water or broth to my canned poultry. Then a year or two ago, Ball (or the parent company) tested raw pack with added liquid and it came out fine. So now, it's approved to add liquid.

How much liquid would you recommend per jar for raw pack?

 

[Bigtank]

I never really understood pressure canning. My family has done the boiling water bath canning for ages. Boil the canned Mason jars, take them out of the pot, and wait for the lids to "pop". Cheap as hell, and we are all still alive.

In simple terms you must pressure can low acid foods to kill bad bacteria. Meats some vegies etc. The pressure raises the temp inside the vessel.

 

[bhambrewer]

I never really understood pressure canning. My family has done the boiling water bath canning for ages. Boil the canned Mason jars, take them out of the pot, and wait for the lids to "pop". Cheap as hell, and we are all still alive.

botulism. Pressure canning reduces the chances of botulism by 12 log, which means that there may be 1 live c. botulinum spore in a trillion jars. The problem with botulism is that the bacterium requires anaerobic conditions, and time. Pressure canning produces this extreme reduction where boiling water canning cannot.

This is why the USDA does not recommend boiling water bath canning for low acid foods like meat, veg, beans etc.

Because water bath canning meat is like playing Russian Roulette. I won't take that chance with my family, but I am not the canning police.

 

[thirdeye]

How much liquid would you recommend per jar for raw pack?

My favorite jars for meat are the 1.5 quart size, and before the newer round of testing I would add a couple of tablespoons. This primarily was to solve the problem with the low liquid levels you get with raw pack. Now that it's acceptable to add liquid I add a little more... but not up to the 1" of head space because raw meat will make juice during processing. When doing boneless breasts, I like to add a boneless thigh to the jars because it makes the broth richer.

 

[thirdeye]

I'm looking to make shelf stable SPAM and, so far, when canning, everything has rendered down to dust.

I think the term you are looking for is potted meat, and deviled ham. I'll snoop around in some of my older canning guides and see what I can find. The deviled ham in metal cans is an approved method for cured meat, for home canning, cured meats (other than cured and slightly smoked salmon) are not recommended due to density and lack of testing.

I mentioned above about a previous edition of the Ball Blue Book, that has a recipe for home corning of beef, and for canning the corned beef. Ball removed both recipes in later editions due to lack of testing. However... both Grandmothers, my Mom and myself have canned corned beef since the 1930's. For the record, this is now technically a "non-tested" method, and my only logic is that 1.5 pint jars are processed at the same time as quart jars, I use the raw pack method, and the strips of meat are loosely packed.

I'm not familiar with using Cure or other additives in jars.

 

[thirdeye]

I came here to research this very issue. 'Cure Canning Meats.'

To follow up from my post above, I found some interesting meat recipes in my Montana Extension Service Canning Guide from 1947 (by the way, this guide also lists corned beef and canning ham). They are showing Liver Loaf, Meat Loaf, Head Cheese, and Mince Meat which all appear to be a dense product like Spam or potted meats. Instructions are given for using both jars and tin cans, and they stress that tin cans will allow the product to 'turn out' on a serving plate without breaking. I would guess the same holds true for a 1/2 pint wide mouth canning jar. So maybe there are some updated or more modern versions of these products. My main concerns would be product density and proper heat penetration to kill botulism for some of these softer pate-like products. And just because it was okay in 1947 doesn't mean it's okay today.

This article discusses potted meat, and does mention curing salt. However, it seems the products are not canned, but stored in a root cellar or in the refrigerator. It's an interesting read.

Potted Meat (Historical Food Preservation)

Potted meat is a historical form of food preservation that's still used in many parts of the world today. Meat is carefully cooked and then sealed with fat or butter, and then stored for many

practicalselfreliance.com

And here is a SMF link discussing homemade spam:

Homemade spam !

Just packaged up some spam I made a couple of days ago . It tasted like spam , maybe even a tad better . Cant beat a good fried spam sandwich or spam and eggs .

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[Oceantoad]

Thanks to you all for the information provided. It has been a pleasure to read all the different comments and opinions without having to sift through the process bashing and accusation's of someone's poor technique.
Job well done to you all!!

 

[daveomak]

Canning meat..
Canned SPAM, Turkey SPAM has sodium nitrite added...
I would follow the commercial canner example and add nitrite to all meats... Including fish...
Botulism bacteria has been found in salmon... Gills and guts... It's not a stretch to believe the bacteria can migrate to the meat while cleaning the fish...

 

[thirdeye]

Canning meat..
Canned SPAM, Turkey SPAM has sodium nitrite added...
I would follow the commercial canner example and add nitrite to all meats... Including fish...
Botulism bacteria has been found in salmon... Gills and guts... It's not a stretch to believe the bacteria can migrate to the meat while cleaning the fish...

Even though the temperature inside a pressure canner is 240° at 10# of pressure? And processing times for fish are longer than red meat and chicken, and smoked fish is even longer than canning fresh fish.

 

[bill ace 350]

Canning meat..
Canned SPAM, Turkey SPAM has sodium nitrite added...
I would follow the commercial canner example and add nitrite to all meats... Including fish...
Botulism bacteria has been found in salmon... Gills and guts... It's not a stretch to believe the bacteria can migrate to the meat while cleaning the fish...

Do you have an approved recipe?

 

[daveomak]

Approved ??? What needs to be approved???

Bill, you don't seem to be the type of guy that believes in and follows everything the government tells you to do... If I'm wrong, I apologize...
I would add cure#1 at less than 156 Ppm to the weight of the fish...

 

[daveomak]

Even though the temperature inside a pressure canner is 240° at 10# of pressure? And processing times for fish are longer than red meat and chicken, and smoked fish is even longer than canning fresh fish.

Thirdeye, evening... From what I've read... When caning stuff, the stuff along with the water takes time to penetrate to the center of the jar... Explains the difference in canning time from pints to quarts... So, there could be a lapse in temperature getting to 240-250F in the fish near the center of the jar... If 1-10 spores are left alive, that could be real bad...

 

[daveomak]

Well, I didn't think the nit-pickers would attack the process... It's good to know you are still checking others... Although, it seems the picking is done to a select few posters... I'm glad to be on the list...