Good info

Discussion in 'Food Safety' started by pineywoods, Jan 9, 2010.

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  1. pineywoods

    pineywoods Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead SMF Premier Member

    Here is some good info that was in a thread that we had to remove but I wanted to re-post this good info

    Smokeguy wrote
    Bob, On the matter of not inserting the probe into say a standing rib roast because then it's not a whole muscle anymore and your finished temp isn't high enough for ground now, what is the proper way to figure out the temperature if you're going for say, 131 degrees, without just guessing? There is a ton of difference in smoking one at lower temps and grilling/oven cooking one at much higher temps even with the eventual resting temperature increases (my oven baked one for Christmas was way overdone because the temp rose so much after I took it out and let it rest, unlike the relatively smaller temp rise from smoking one at lower temps I've had).
    Use a sanitizer on the probe first? Or?

    bbally wrote
    The end part of the whole muscle HACCP method is:
    Prepare the meat, start to cook the meat, when the surface temperature of the meat has been above 140 F for 15 minutes, sterilize your probe and insert it into the meat cook til finished

    bbally wrote
    The temperature rise is actually based on water activity. Since most ovens are hotter then a good cooker, they are putting out more watts of energy. This translates to more water activity, meaning the water molecules in the meat are transferring infrared energy to and from each other. Heating up the meat.

    If you have more wattage you have more kinetic energy. As the energy is passed into the meat it heat the inside up. The more water molecules you have vibrating he more energy stored in the meat, the faster and higher it will rise.

    Because we are dealing with Kinetic energy we also have to take into consideration the amount of energy that can be stored. A big piece of meat is a larger battery to store water activity in, so it continues to heat a lot longer then a smaller piece of meat. (Weight Wise)

    Water activity and water saturation of the meat are the biggest reason you see people thinking they are DRY AGING at home, when they are not in any way aging anything. They are just dehydrating the piece of meat, giving less water activity making the meat take longer to heat up, giving enzyme activity and amylase as well as maillard reactions longer to sweeten the meat.

    The best thing to do when cooking large meats, is place the temp probe in after the outside has reached 140 for 15 minutes, then monitor the temperature rise. You will be able to correlate the temp rise per 15 minute increments. This will let you know about what the rise is going to be 15 minutes after removing the meat. Over 8 pounds figure a 25 minute continued water activity

    More in next post
     
  2. pineywoods

    pineywoods Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead SMF Premier Member

    Smokeguy wrote
    What if you want to take it out of the smoker at 131 F and eat it at a still-might-be-mooing 139? It'll never get high enough to insert a probe based off of HACCP, so....what do I do now?

    Is this the reason you defrost in the microwave in stages of on and off and let it rest/equalize at the end of a nuking session?

    Fatbaack Joe wrote
    I think you are confusing internal and external temp. When the external temp of the meat is 140 the internal will still be well below it

    bbally wrote
    The outside of the meat, not the inside... you should never be running a smoker below 200 F unless you are doing a full cure cold smoke using Nitrate not nitrite. With the cooker at 200 F the meat outside will be sterile in less than 30 minutes.
    You can pull the meat at any temp you want to.... after the outside has pasteurized it is up to you under the whole intact muscle rule.

    Yes water activity is the reason for on and off cycles (duty cycle) in defrosting. To let the infrared energy equalize. Same with defrosting seafood under cold running water, water activity

    More in next post
     
  3. pineywoods

    pineywoods Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead SMF Premier Member

    Smokeguy wrote
    I should have stayed at a Holiday Inn last night because I think I'm starting to over-think this now.

    If the meat outside is sterile at >200 F after >30 minutes, why can't I insert a sterilized probe into the meat anytime after 30 minutes and still be running under the whole intact muscle rule since there is no chance that I have introduced bacteria into the meat either from the probe or the outside of the meat?

    ETA: My answer on even further thought....I *can* insert a sterile probe because the OUTSIDE is also "sterile" after 30 minutes. Right?

    bbally wrote
    Correct, after the outside has passed through the temp zone you can insert the probe
     
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