Food Proofer Conversion is happeneing

[sledhead01]

Hello fellow Smoke Lovers,

I have finally started on a conversion project after pondering several types of builds.  I have obtained a full functioning InterMetro Food Proofer.  The inside measurements of the cabinet are 56" high, 24" wide and 29" deep.  It has two 675 watt heating elements inside of it.  One is used to heat a water pan to control humidity and the other is used to heat the inside circulating air that is blown with a small squirrel cage fan.  This fan can be run independently with out any of the heat sources on.

sm1.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

sm2.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

The cabinet is between 23 and 24 cubic feet.  I have built 11 rack of regular mild steel expanded metal (Stainless was WAY to expensive) that are 18" x 24", so have 4752 sq inches of rack space if all are utilized.  The unit will primarily be used for smoking jerky and sausage.

sm11.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

sm6.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

I would like to go with an Auber PID controller WSD-1501-GPH and use another heating element to keep the unit fully electric and would like to keep it 110 volt.  I spoke with a guy from Auber yesterday and he was very helpful and provided me with a lot of information.  I was told that this controller can handle an element up to 1800 watts.

The building where the smoker will be kept has next to no electrical load in it and the breaker panel is still pretty much empty, so if i need to I can install 20 amp or bigger breakers and run the appropriately sized wire so that the proofer and PID can be plugged into separate outlets.

I was thinking of using the water pan as my chip tray and use the element as my heat source.

sm4.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

sm5.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

With the size of my cabinet if I add a 1500 to 1800 watt element combined with the existing 1350 watts will that be enough to heat the cabinet to say around 250-300 degrees F and be able to recover temps in a timely fashion?  I was also thinking of using charcoal briquettes or some lump charcoal if a bit more heat is needed.

As for the fan that is currently in the warmer, I plan to keep utilizing it to circulate the air inside to maintain even cooking temps inside.  I was thinking of installing a rheostat control so that i can be variable speed.  

I need to install a chimney and was planning on a 4" pipe with a damper in it.

I would welcome any comments or suggestions that may assist me with the build.  It is going to be utilized to make plenty of delicious salted cured meats so I do not mind investing some cash into it.  

Thanks, may your smoke be thin and blue. 

 

[goliath]

nice looking unit...
by adding the 1500 watt burner on the PID you should be fine. i also have a large unit like this and needed to install a 2nd burner to get to a decent temp faster. MY MISTAKE is i went cheap and bought the PID that was rated for 1500 and ended up over working the damn thing and reprogrammed it back to run at 85% so as not to burn it out. my 2nd burner just runs off of a dial from an old stove..

as for smoke i HIGHLY recommend using the AMNPS ... these smoker tubes are bullet proof. never any stalls or problems. BIGGER IS BETTER for a longer smoke as overnight pulled pork. i actually got 2 of the 12" welded together and it sits nicely across the bottom of my unit sitting on 2 bolts so as to keep air flow. this was before the expandable ones hit the market. i also have a 12" and a small one. just depends what i am up to at the time and they work great in my pellet grill too !!!!
 

GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY SMOKING

Goliath

 

[sledhead01]

So if I understand you correctly the PID can be set to run scaled back? I can get a 1950 watt element that is meant to go in the unit that is quite small and compact.
If I went that route I would scale it back to only run at a max of about 1700 watts. Would that be an issue. Here is a picture of the 1950 element.

Screenshot_20161112-112309.png

• sledhead01
• Nov 12, 2016

 

[goliath]

there is s section in the manual that explains how to do the settings to scale it back. i actually called Auberins tech guy for help ... they are good !!!
as for will it all work, i am no electrician so i cant say how well it will power. you were going to have 2 heating elements so i cant see why it wouldnt work ...

give them a call and talk to the guys and see what they say.

GOOD LUCK

Goliath

 

[dward51]

The disadvantage of going over a 1,500 watt heating element is you are getting into a power level that is going to require something other than your standard 15amp household electrical outlet.

If you go to 1,950 watts, you are looking at using an outlet and wired circuit set up to handle 20amps at 110v.  Most household outlets are wired on 14ga wire and set up on 15amp breakers. If you have 12ga wire, 20 amp breaker, and a 20 amp outlet where you want to run the smoker, you can go with the 1,950watt (assuming it is a 110v element).   On the other hand, if you can run a dedicated outlet just for that smoker, it would be better to use a 220v circuit and element. Reason is you can get the wattage with a smaller gauge wire at 220v than at 110v and you could also use a higher wattage element if needed (again up to the limits of your wiring, outlet, and breaker).

Another question I have is what type of insulation is in the cabinet now?  If it's blown in foam, that usually starts to break down and do weird things in the 250-280* range.  Not an issue for smoking sausage and snack sticks, but if you are going to "cook" at 250* to 300* like you mentioned in your post above, I would pull that foam out (a real pain to do), and replace it with mineral wool insulation (roxul or other similar).   For this temp range, I would absolutely wire for 220v and go with a 2,500 watt to 4,500 watt element as with that size of a cabinet, you are going to need the wattage to bring any appreciable amount of meat up to temp in a decent time period.  A smaller element will eventually do it, but why not do it right.

Good news is the Auber PID and SSR's should work with either 110v or 220v just fine, but elements are rated for a certain wattage at a certain voltage (you cannot run a 110v element on 220v, and although you can run a 220v element on 110v, you get 1/4 the wattage if you do).

 

[marctrees]

Sledhead -  For your "chimney", you may like this -         Marc

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/253195/very-nice-ss-smoker-vent-rain-cap

 

[marctrees]

Dward posted very good info.

Sledhead -  For your "chimney", you may like this -         Marc

Funny internet today, double posting me.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/253195/very-nice-ss-smoker-vent-rain-cap

 

[sledhead01]

Hey Marc,

Thanks for the link and suggestion, that's a good looking chimney. Hopefully shipping here to Canada doesn't kill me.



Sledhead -  For your "chimney", you may like this -         Marc

Funny internet today, double posting me.


http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/253195/very-nice-ss-smoker-vent-rain-cap
[/quote]

 

[sledhead01]

 
The disadvantage of going over a 1,500 watt heating element is you are getting into a power level that is going to require something other than your standard 15amp household electrical outlet.

If you go to 1,950 watts, you are looking at using an outlet and wired circuit set up to handle 20amps at 110v.  Most household outlets are wired on 14ga wire and set up on 15amp breakers. If you have 12ga wire, 20 amp breaker, and a 20 amp outlet where you want to run the smoker, you can go with the 1,950watt (assuming it is a 110v element).   On the other hand, if you can run a dedicated outlet just for that smoker, it would be better to use a 220v circuit and element. Reason is you can get the wattage with a smaller gauge wire at 220v than at 110v and you could also use a higher wattage element if needed (again up to the limits of your wiring, outlet, and breaker).

Another question I have is what type of insulation is in the cabinet now?  If it's blown in foam, that usually starts to break down and do weird things in the 250-280* range.  Not an issue for smoking sausage and snack sticks, but if you are going to "cook" at 250* to 300* like you mentioned in your post above, I would pull that foam out (a real pain to do), and replace it with mineral wool insulation (roxul or other similar).   For this temp range, I would absolutely wire for 220v and go with a 2,500 watt to 4,500 watt element as with that size of a cabinet, you are going to need the wattage to bring any appreciable amount of meat up to temp in a decent time period.  A smaller element will eventually do it, but why not do it right.

Good news is the Auber PID and SSR's should work with either 110v or 220v just fine, but elements are rated for a certain wattage at a certain voltage (you cannot run a 110v element on 220v, and although you can run a 220v element on 110v, you get 1/4 the wattage if you do).

I do have the ability to install new wire and outlets as needed and the smokers home will be out on a farm so plenty of access to 220v.  I will definately look into those option.  I will do some homework as I would like to build it right the first time, especially since I am looking to purchase a PID and would rather not buy two as it could get pricey as I am up in Canada.

As for the insulation, right now the cabinet is just bare aluminum wall.  There is no insulation.  The first product that will be rolling through will be jerky so not too concerned with that.  I am planning to insulate it down the road and was planning on using Roxul Comfort Board and then sheeting it with tin.

 

[marctrees]

So, it is not currently double wall?  ?  ?  ?

If single, then ya no problem, roxul or fiberglass outside, and sheath in anything weatherproof, could even be wood.  

Simplest would have been double wall, with high temp insul from factory, not foam.

But you probably got it cheap, and the thing overall, and with your shelves, looks GREAT.          Marc

 

[marctrees]

Slaedhead -  UUHHHHHHHHH................

You are aware of - ???

Polycarbonate has a glass transition temperature of about 147 °C  (297 °F), so it softens gradually above this point and flows above about 155 °C  (311 °F). Tools must be held at high temperatures, generally above 80 °C  (176 °F) to make strain-free and stress-free products.

From another source - 

Max Operating Temp (°F / °C)

250 / 121

Third place -  Maximum Service Temperature, Air 121 ∞C 250 ∞F 

Yet another -  . May be used in continuous service applications with temperatures ranging from -40 deg F to 240 deg F. 

.https://www.google.com/webhp?source...F-8#q=polycarbonate+sheet+temperature+etremes

 

[sledhead01]

 
Slaedhead -  UUHHHHHHHHH................

You are aware of - ???

Polycarbonate has a glass transition temperature of about 147 °C  (297 °F), so it softens gradually above this point and flows above about 155 °C  (311 °F). Tools must be held at high temperatures, generally above 80 °C  (176 °F) to make strain-free and stress-free products.

From another source - 

Max Operating Temp (°F / °C)

250 / 121

Third place -  Maximum Service Temperature, Air 121 ∞C 250 ∞F 

Yet another -  . May be used in continuous service applications with temperatures ranging from -40 deg F to 240 deg F. 

.https://www.google.com/webhp?source...F-8#q=polycarbonate+sheet+temperature+etremes

I have thought about the polycarbonate window.  I pondered two possible solutions, the first is to remove the window and just put a piece of aluminum back in its place.  The second, leave the window in place and on the inside put approx 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of roxul and again cover with aluminum.  I really want to utilize the door if I can as it has a great magnetic latch.  If I go the insulation route, I am thinking that would be enough to keep polycarbonate from melting, It would probably get warm but that should not be a deal breaker.

 

[sledhead01]

 
Dward posted very good info.

Sledhead -  For your "chimney", you may like this -         Marc

Funny internet today, double posting me.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/253195/very-nice-ss-smoker-vent-rain-cap

So I just spoke with Matt from SMOKEWARE and he was very helpful.  He informed me that they have Canadian Dealers and there is one about 30 min from where I am in Edmonton.

Marc, do you have any pics of yours installed?

 

[marctrees]

Re - Smokeware - Matt is who I ordered from, was very helpful and smart.

Hope you told him you saw it on this Forum.

Mine is awaiting install, while I'm going through a few options in my head.

Certainly if you line the inside of window w insul, and sheet over w something, I would probably think probably fine then.

Marc

 

[marctrees]

I have looked at a few proof boxes and "holding" cabs on online auctions, never even came to my mind the windows may not be glass.

NEVER thought of it.

Just another great example of why its soo good to see something actually in front of one's eyeballs and fingertips.

That really is a great looking cabinet, with that door and all, and especially for jerky w your new shelves.

I'm excited !     Marc

 

[marctrees]

If you have anymore questions about the Smokeware, it's sittin here next to me.

Different ways it could be installed, all pretty simple.

And keep in mind, they make two versions, BOTH SAME  other than small (by memory) around, very roughly, 15% diff in nipple, AND overall size.

It was because they were originally designed to fit over the exhaust nipples of Big green eggs, and other similar popular cookers.

Either one is fine for any of us here for custom install, whichever is most available.     Marc

 

[sledhead01]

So after doing more research and reading I have decided on my heat source and controller.  I am going to go the 220v route, and have 3000 to 4000 watts of heating power inside.  I know this is more than what is needed but will ensure quick warm ups and fast recoveries when the door gets opened.  Plus If I do not insulate it right away I should easily still be able to smoke in cold temps. I have also confirmed there is already an existing 220v outlet in the building where the smoker will call home.

I am going to use an Auberins SMD-200 PID and a 40 amp SSR with a heat sink.  Most of the other components I can source locally and I work with an electrician so I can get some assistance to ensure It is all put together correctly.

PID.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 16, 2016

When the controller is completed I will basically be the following:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=487

I realize it is a lot more controller power than I need but if If I am going to build it might as well make it bullet proof.  Who knows maybe I will outgrow the smoker and want to up size.  

 

[marctrees]

That all sounds awesome, I never saw the bigger 230 V option at Auber before.

Sledhead - I would love to see a few photos of the interior of your door, w a closeup of corner detail, interior of hinges open, and interior side of latch.

Thinking about best, and cost effective way to insulate and sheet the interior.  

A sheet of AL is cheap, but shop time w a brake for edges or something  ( to make a space for the insul) will add $ and hassle is what I'm thinking about.

Maybe possible to get by without that, my objective.    

Marc

 

[sledhead01]

 
That all sounds awesome, I never saw the bigger 230 V option at Auber before.

Sledhead - I would love to see a few photos of the interior of your door, w a closeup of corner detail, interior of hinges open, and interior side of latch.

Thinking about best, and cost effective way to insulate and sheet the interior.  

A sheet of AL is cheap, but shop time w a brake for edges or something  ( to make a space for the insul) will add $ and hassle is what I'm thinking about.

Maybe possible to get by without that, my objective.    

Marc

Hi Marc,

I was looking at the plug and play options on Auberin's website looking for a controller that would suit my needs and called them again  as I had some questions.  I must say Auberin's tech support is fantastic, they are very knowledgable and easy to talk to and It was the tech guy that recommended me to look at the WSD-SMD.  That thing is a beast and the PID is designed for use in a smoker.  

I have been thinking about the Smokeware Cap.  Do I need to have a chimney so that there is an air draw going through the smoker.  The inside measurement of the smaller Smokeware  cap is    5 1/2 inches so I could use a piece of 5 inch chrome exhaust pipe (we have some scrap pieces around) and use felt so that the cap fits securely on the top.  Would look great and not have to worry about galvanized.  Or could I place the cap directly on the top of the smoker?

As to air inlets on the bottom I was going to cut a few holes and use something like the pictured items or similar.  That way the air flow is controllable.

bbq_air_damper_6.jpg

• sledhead01
• Nov 16, 2016

I will take some detailed pictures of the door, corners, hinges and latch tomorrow and post them.

Thanks alot for all of your interest in my project, I really appreciate the input.

Terry

 

[dward51]

Whoa!!!! I would build my own a long timer before I paid $450 for a pre-built one.  Pretty much all the PID controllers can run on either 110v or 220v with changes.  And 40 amp SSR's will also work on either voltage.  Basically you need the PID, SSR, a heat sink for the SSR and the temp probes. Should be way less than $200 for the parts.  You can pick up a decent cabinet at Auber Instruments for around $60 to $75 also.  The actual wiring is pretty straight forward.

Let me toss out another suggestion.  Run dual 220v heating elements with a switch so you can turn one off.  This will let you run at lower temps for say sausage and snack stick smoking and still have plenty of power for larger meat loads or if you just need it. 

Here are a couple of examples I whipped up for another thread a while back. 

220/230v with dual elements (1 can be switched off)

230v diagram 3.jpg

• dward51
• Jul 14, 2014

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220/230v with a single element, PID running on 220/230v

230v diagram 2.jpg

• dward51
• Oct 28, 2013

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220/230v with a single element, PID running on 110v

230V WIRING.jpg

• dward51
• Oct 28, 2013