Food Proofer Conversion is happeneing
- Thread starter sledhead01
- Start date
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I am really excited to try making snack sticks, sausage rings and 3" summer sausage. Till now all I have really made has been jerky in my 6 rack digital Bradley. Going to have to do a lot of reading for recipes and temp recommendations, but that is the fun of it.
For snack sticks and sausage you will love that 6 step program memory. I have mine set for snack sticks which is a 4 step heat profile the way I make them. It makes the process truly set and forget once the meat is in the smoker. From initial drying of the casing to finished product is totally automated by the PID.
Ahhhhh..... Contactor AKA a mercury wetted relay in the old days (before someone decided mercury was one of those substances that might end all life as we know it in the hands of mere mortals). I might have a 60amp and 30amp one of those in the parts box in the basement. They are spares for a 15kw textile dryer I have (yes I said 15,000 watts). You can really watch the meter spin when that sucker is running.
Mercury wetted relay
marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
Sledhead - It shows in your photo of components, you have a very nice and suitable steel box enclosure.
VERY good.
I am an Electrician by trade.
I am ONLY commenting, if you have difficulty with your available tools to install in a steel box, molded plastic is available.
You may very much be aware, but some are not.
Example at Edmonton Lowes - - Widely available in various sizes, (from Amazon, or Electrical Supply Houses) easier to install stuff and cut holes - Marc
https://www.lowes.ca/electrical-box...over_g1202622.html?searchTerm=carlon-box#aDim
VERY good.
I am an Electrician by trade.
I am ONLY commenting, if you have difficulty with your available tools to install in a steel box, molded plastic is available.
You may very much be aware, but some are not.
Example at Edmonton Lowes - - Widely available in various sizes, (from Amazon, or Electrical Supply Houses) easier to install stuff and cut holes - Marc
https://www.lowes.ca/electrical-box...over_g1202622.html?searchTerm=carlon-box#aDim
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Thanks Marc,
I did explore some less expensive boxes but wanted to have one with a hinged door so that if any future work is needed to be done inside everything stays all together and is not hanging by the wires and also a back mounting plate to mount components to. That is hard to find in the plastic option. We have a electrician on staff here at work so he has a knockout kit for all of the round holes and for the rectangular hole for the controller was just planning to drill two corner holes and they use a jig saw to cut out the rest. He has also told me he would assist me with the wiring to ensure it all goes together correctly.
I am getting close to having a functional unit so I just figured why start pinching pennies now. :o)
marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
I would not recommend using a contactor or a dry contact relay with a PID controller.
JckDanls 07 hit the reason why directly on the head. A mechanical relay (either dry contact or mercury wetted) is basically a remotely controlled physical switch. It's either on or off and meant to be that way for a while. A PID will electronically "switch" a SSR many times in small time increments and this is how a PID holds such a tight set temperature. The SSR has no moving parts and is up the the job. A mechanical relay, regardless of type will not last long or work well with a PID controller.
The contactor has nothing to do with the temp, it is just a mechanically controlled switch that another device provides an electrical input to that moves a mechanical contact inside the relay to either turn on, or off a process. The time a contactor stays on is determined by an external device. A contactor is basically a dumb switch (but one that can handle very high amounts of power). Typically an analog temperature control device is used to switch a contactor to control the high amperage load or heating element. That analog control device is what gives the temp swings. PID's are much newer technology and do a much better job of tightly holding a set temperature. And yes, they do make high amperage SSR's that can pretty much replace any contactor out there. Comparing a mechanical contactor or relay to a SSR is like comparing 1930's technology to 2001 technology.
I did notice the schematic does not illustrate a contactor or relay, but wanted to point this out for those reading this thread who may consider using one with a PID instead of a SSR (don't do it).
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Well then I am very confused because the illustration and photo in post 41 are directly from Auberin's website on how to wire the PID and both show the contactor and SSR. I am no electrician but what I have read the purpose of the contactor is to be able to cut the power in both of the hot lines in a 220v system when the master switch is off to make the panel safe and not leave 1 hot still energized. I believe that the contactor provides constant power to the SSR and the and that the SSR does all of the work. I ordered my parts based on the parts list that was on Auberins website.
SH... to edit/delete look down in the lower left corner of the post you want to edit... there is a picture of a flag and a picture of a pencil/eraser... just click on the pencil...
so then the contactor is really just an on/off switch for power to the whole unit ??
so then the contactor is really just an on/off switch for power to the whole unit ??
Yes, The ON/OFF switch opens and closes the contactor which supplies power to everything else.
I will be getting started on the control box this week and getting the piece of aluminum to cover the insulation that will be going on the door.
wazzuqer
Meat Mopper
Ok, I see what you are talking about now. I thought you were at one time talking about using a contactor INSTEAD of a SSR to switch the load from the PID. Yes, using a contactor as a master switch for that large load will work just fine. That is actually what they are made for (duh on my part for not reading closer)....
Well then I am very confused because the illustration and photo in post 41 are directly from Auberin's website on how to wire the PID and both show the contactor and SSR. I am no electrician but what I have read the purpose of the contactor is to be able to cut the power in both of the hot lines in a 220v system when the master switch is off to make the panel safe and not leave 1 hot still energized. I believe that the contactor provides constant power to the SSR and the and that the SSR does all of the work. I ordered my parts based on the parts list that was on Auberins website.
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marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
Sledhead - Question - Why include a contactor to sit and possibly hum the whole time you're smoking?
Whats wrong with a full power rated compact 2 pole toggle switch, or a cheap no fail ever old school knife blade disconnect?
Ask the Electrician helper. Marc
Whats wrong with a full power rated compact 2 pole toggle switch, or a cheap no fail ever old school knife blade disconnect?
Ask the Electrician helper. Marc
Hi Marc,
Never really though of going with other options as this set up is what Aunerins recommended. It will all be enclosed in a sealed weatherproof box so if there is a slight hum I do not think it will be that noticeable and also inside a shop where there is often other noises as well. LOL
What are the thoughts out there about what kind of heating element I should use in my smoker. I am pondering two options:
Option One: Using one single 3000 watt oven element set on the bottom of the smoker.
Option Two: using two round stove top elements. One being an 8 inch 2400 watt coil and the second being a 6 inch 1500 watt coil.
This is the option I am leaning towards as my logic is that if I would like I could place a chip/pellet tray on top of the elements as well. I would also have more total heating watts this way.
I look forward to hearing what others are using and any other feedback.
Option One: Using one single 3000 watt oven element set on the bottom of the smoker.
Option Two: using two round stove top elements. One being an 8 inch 2400 watt coil and the second being a 6 inch 1500 watt coil.
This is the option I am leaning towards as my logic is that if I would like I could place a chip/pellet tray on top of the elements as well. I would also have more total heating watts this way.
I look forward to hearing what others are using and any other feedback.
marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
See, a knife blade "disconnect safety switch" would be excellent for killing power to service or for whatever, and it eliminates need for the starter.
Even if your'e connected w cord/plug, still eliminates the starter.
Simplifies the circuitry, less to go wrong.
ALSO - Add two indicator lights - One that shows power on to unit, and a second showing when power is going to element.
Both lights need to be 220, hooked to BOTH Hot legs, not just to one side and neutral.
That way it will absolutely confirm the element is TRULY on, not just maybe getting one hot leg.
Good clear visual confirmation of what is happening. Super cheap $ way to do it -
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_33&products_id=248
Sled - I highly suggest you show the Electrician this full post,so nothing is lost in translation, and ask HIS recommendation.
If he works industrial maintenance, repair, and some new install/ redo's, he'll know ALL about this stuff. Marc
https://www.lowes.ca/safety-switche...y-switch_g1202591.html?searchTerm=square-d-30
Even if your'e connected w cord/plug, still eliminates the starter.
Simplifies the circuitry, less to go wrong.
ALSO - Add two indicator lights - One that shows power on to unit, and a second showing when power is going to element.
Both lights need to be 220, hooked to BOTH Hot legs, not just to one side and neutral.
That way it will absolutely confirm the element is TRULY on, not just maybe getting one hot leg.
Good clear visual confirmation of what is happening. Super cheap $ way to do it -
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_33&products_id=248
Sled - I highly suggest you show the Electrician this full post,so nothing is lost in translation, and ask HIS recommendation.
If he works industrial maintenance, repair, and some new install/ redo's, he'll know ALL about this stuff. Marc
https://www.lowes.ca/safety-switche...y-switch_g1202591.html?searchTerm=square-d-30
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You might also consider a double pole AC (air conditioner) disconnect box for your master as well. Cost is low for the outdoor rated cabinet box (and it's not huge). Could be mounted on the smoker or at the wall where your 220v outlet will be (or hardwired).
As to smoke...
I would not depend on the heating element that provides heat for the smoker temp to be the source of smoke from the pellets/chips. Reason is, in an effecient and well insulated smoker, that element is not running very often once the smoker is up to operating temp. So what ends up happening is your pellets/chips don't stay lit. They will start to smolder and smoke as the pit heats up, but once it hits the set point, the element will mostly be off. Even when it comes back on, the PID is only pulsing it and generally will not reliably keep them smoldering.
I would go with either a dedicated pellet tray/tube or smoke generator. If you want pellets to be electrically fired, there is the smoke chief cold smoker which is a pellet fueled smoke generator. It has it's own dedicated heat source to keep the pellets smoking. This would also let you cold smoke cheese and other items that you could not if the pellets/chips were heated by the main smoker element.
At about 2 minutes in this next video, they show it being fitted on the side of a cabinet smoker.
As to smoke...
I would not depend on the heating element that provides heat for the smoker temp to be the source of smoke from the pellets/chips. Reason is, in an effecient and well insulated smoker, that element is not running very often once the smoker is up to operating temp. So what ends up happening is your pellets/chips don't stay lit. They will start to smolder and smoke as the pit heats up, but once it hits the set point, the element will mostly be off. Even when it comes back on, the PID is only pulsing it and generally will not reliably keep them smoldering.
I would go with either a dedicated pellet tray/tube or smoke generator. If you want pellets to be electrically fired, there is the smoke chief cold smoker which is a pellet fueled smoke generator. It has it's own dedicated heat source to keep the pellets smoking. This would also let you cold smoke cheese and other items that you could not if the pellets/chips were heated by the main smoker element.
At about 2 minutes in this next video, they show it being fitted on the side of a cabinet smoker.
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marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
Now, to go further, inclusion of the contactor will provide other possible option inclusions, if you care to use them.
If not, then delete the contactor.
But here's an example -
I see you have NO "High limit cutout "Klixon"" or equivalent in your print.
AGAIN - ASK your Electrician about his opinion on that.
MOST high end Electric smokers have them, probably mandatory for like "UL Listing" approval.
It's a wise safety thing.
It guards against overly high potential temps when normal controls fail, get stuck "on".
In other words, fire potential protection.
Like furnaces, water heaters, etc., almost ALL have them.
Show this to your Electrician also, I don't care if Auber did not include it.
The inclusion of the contactor provides a method of connecting such an item, because it is on the "control", rather than "Line" part of the ckt.
He will understand and know. Marc
If not, then delete the contactor.
But here's an example -
I see you have NO "High limit cutout "Klixon"" or equivalent in your print.
AGAIN - ASK your Electrician about his opinion on that.
MOST high end Electric smokers have them, probably mandatory for like "UL Listing" approval.
It's a wise safety thing.
It guards against overly high potential temps when normal controls fail, get stuck "on".
In other words, fire potential protection.
Like furnaces, water heaters, etc., almost ALL have them.
Show this to your Electrician also, I don't care if Auber did not include it.
The inclusion of the contactor provides a method of connecting such an item, because it is on the "control", rather than "Line" part of the ckt.
He will understand and know. Marc
marctrees
Smoking Fanatic
Dward has lots of experience and is a great smart guy.
I mean absolutely no disrespect, but want to stay technically accurate.
I am ONLY trying to help on the electrical part, the smoke part I leave to Dward et al., cause I dunno, but keep thinking AMNPS for smoke source,OR some other smoke gen as Dward suggested, BUT I have no experience bout that.
I DO know about the electrical part.
Dward quote - "You might also consider a double pole AC (air conditioner) disconnect box for your master as well. Cost is low for the outdoor rated cabinet box (and it's not huge). Could be mounted on the smoker or at the wall where your 220v outlet will be (or hardwired)."
Sure . that's kinda "the same thing" as I suggested, a "disconnect".
And ya, in any case, would be mounted on the Cabinet.
But it's not the "Same" usability/ convenience wise, although electrically, same.
Most inexpensive "AC Disconnects" have a pull out plug, loose in your hand when you pull it out, , could get lost, and TYPICALLY a major pain in the ass to re plug back in.
Hugely less convenient than what I'm sayin.
I suggested a old school knife blade "Disconnect".
There are MILLIONS of them in existence as "Disconnects".
Again, Sledhead - present THIS THREAD to the Industrial Electrician. Marc
I mean absolutely no disrespect, but want to stay technically accurate.
I am ONLY trying to help on the electrical part, the smoke part I leave to Dward et al., cause I dunno, but keep thinking AMNPS for smoke source,OR some other smoke gen as Dward suggested, BUT I have no experience bout that.
I DO know about the electrical part.
Dward quote - "You might also consider a double pole AC (air conditioner) disconnect box for your master as well. Cost is low for the outdoor rated cabinet box (and it's not huge). Could be mounted on the smoker or at the wall where your 220v outlet will be (or hardwired)."
Sure . that's kinda "the same thing" as I suggested, a "disconnect".
And ya, in any case, would be mounted on the Cabinet.
But it's not the "Same" usability/ convenience wise, although electrically, same.
Most inexpensive "AC Disconnects" have a pull out plug, loose in your hand when you pull it out, , could get lost, and TYPICALLY a major pain in the ass to re plug back in.
Hugely less convenient than what I'm sayin.
I suggested a old school knife blade "Disconnect".
There are MILLIONS of them in existence as "Disconnects".
Again, Sledhead - present THIS THREAD to the Industrial Electrician. Marc
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