Dry Milk and Soy Powder

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KetoJoe

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Oct 18, 2022
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Ok, so sorry if this answered somewhere, I can't find it. I am new to sausage making and am curios, what is the purpose of dry milk and soy powder in the sausages? I am Keto/Carnivore and about 90%-95% of my diet is meat. I try to avoid soy, unless it is in minimal amounts. I eat less than 10 total carbs per day and am looking to make sausage that is less than 1-2 carbs per link. Is the milk and soy. necessary and if so, what is it doing? The ingredients I am really trying to avoid are sugar, potatoes, rice, and any other grains or starches.
 
Ok, so sorry if this answered somewhere, I can't find it. I am new to sausage making and am curios, what is the purpose of dry milk and soy powder in the sausages? I am Keto/Carnivore and about 90%-95% of my diet is meat. I try to avoid soy, unless it is in minimal amounts. I eat less than 10 total carbs per day and am looking to make sausage that is less than 1-2 carbs per link. Is the milk and soy. necessary and if so, what is it doing? The ingredients I am really trying to avoid are sugar, potatoes, rice, and any other grains or starches.
The NFDM nonfat dry milk, or soy, are acting as binders to keep the fat bound in sausage and not come out during cook.

They make it easier to get a good juicy sausage without fat-out. But not necessary. You can get a good bind with just meat if you observe following:
1. Keep meat cold, <34f, while grinding, I target 28 to 31. Rechill. Keep cold during mixing. Mixing by machine, not hand, is faster and keeps meat colder. Keep <34 while stuffing. Basically you usually need to rechill meat between each step.
2. Mix well for a strong super sticky protein extraction. 4 to 5 min on a kitchenaid, 6 to 8 on a hand cranked mixer.
3. Don't let external heat while cooking go above 170f, so the fat inside or just under skin doesn't melt. Easy on dedicated electric smoker, but not on pellet grills. You can do this by smoking at liw temp jist 1 or 2 hrs for smoke flavor, then bagging and sous vide at 160 to 165f for 30 min or so til internal temp 145 to 160, depends what you like. If you will reheat/cook later, then 145 is fine.

Binder just lets you get away with letting meat get warmer, poor mixing, and too hot cooks.

Eric at 2guysandaCooler has a video where he split a batch, and let one meat batch get to just 38f-40 when mixing and stuffing, other was 32f. Smoked together, gathered fat drippings from each... the warmer batch had 5x as much fat drip out!! Tons of folks will tell you their sausage is just fine mixed warm, but they haven't done a test like Eric, so no basis of comparison for how much better it could be.

Watch this recent video of his, and you will see his standard Good Practices for properly making sausages and watching meat temp. If you just follow his basic practices, you won't need any extra binders.


P.s. NFDM is like 35% protein while meat is only 25%... so should comply with your carnivore thing, use it at 1% of meat block, good binder.
1/3c or 23g is enough for 2300 g meat, which is 5 lbs. It has 12g carbs. A Johnsonville brat is 83g or 3oz, so there are 27 brats in 5 lbs. So using the 1/3c or 23g of NFDM in 5 lbs meat will add 0.45g carbs per sausage... half a gram. Should be OK for your limits.
 
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What we call binders actually bind fat to meat (fat has very little water) protein and bind water within the meat, this is especially important with all meat other than beef, where beef meat is best at water retention naturally. A lot of times just adding about 1/3 finely ground beef to say pork will be sufficient to hold moister. It’s all about binding water within the sausage.

Mix the meat batter until when a small scoop in your hand held upside down does not fall but sticks to your hand, that’s what your looking for in protein extraction to hold the sausage together. If you want to retain moisture in sausage to make it really juicy just use phosphate. This is way more effective than all other “water binders” but non of this is necessary if you just prepare your sausage mince correctly.
 
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Use phosphate instead of NFDM or Soy if you want to watch calories....there are a few different phosphates that will work. AmesPhos probably being the most popular and most readily available as a blend.
 
This may help you.

BINDERS - Also known as Soy, Soy Protein Concentrate, Soy Flour, Soy Grits, Soy Protein Isolate - All soy products have a high protein value. This gives soy its binding capability, allowing you to add water (called added water) to your sausage for a moister product. These ingredients are used to prevent weight loss and shrinkage to products being processed in the smokehouse, by helping to retain the natural juices (called bound moisture) in the meat. This product also helps to bind the sausage together and can be used in meat products such as burgers to retain the natural juices from cooking out. Although not generally used in fresh sausages it may be added with good results. You should use the following ratios:
• Smoked products Use binder up to 5% of the meat weight.
• Fresh products Use binder up to 3% of the meat weight.
Sausage binder weighs out at about 4 oz. per cup so 4 cups would equal about one lb. Soy grits are used in patties and products like Hamburger Helper®.
Soy protein concentrate is made from the refining process of soy beans
These binders are ineffective for the most part of holding water and the natural juices, which are in the meat (called bound moisture) at temperatures in excess of 165°F.

POTOTO STARCH “BOOM” - A very high-quality binder that will hold fat & has superior water holding capacity. Great for keeping very lean products moist during processing & cooking. Mix in this product after the cure, salt and seasonings have been added to meat mix.
Recommended applications - reduced fat emulsified meat products, marinades and hams
  • Hi Viscosity
  • Improves yield
  • Non-allergenic
  • Bland flavor - Will not add unacceptable flavor
  • One to one replacement with milk

CARROT BINDER “C-BIND”
Use as an alternative to soy binder, soy protein & dry milk. This binder is created from carrot fiber. Will hold up to 27 times its weight in water thus retaining moisture & delivering a juicier product. It does not effect the taste of the product.
All natural
"GRAS" approved
Non-HMO
Non-allergenic
Isolated Carrot Product
1-1/2 oz. Pkg- dos 25 lb of sausage

WATER - Water is used in sausage making to add moisture to the meat, to add lubrication to the stuffing process and to help distribute the seasonings through out the meat. This water, called added water, will cook out of the meat before the natural moisture, called bound water, cooks out of the meat. Thus, you have a moister product when cooked. Water is also added to lubricate the meat making it easier to stuff into casing. Adding water to the seasoning and ingredients helps carry them into the meat and distributes them evenly during the mixing stage. You can add water up to 10% of the meat weight. Always use ice-cold water.
Water is also used to shower the finished product after smoking. This stops the cooking process and prevents swiveling. Some water supplies have high lime contents that leave white powder spots on sausage after showering. Check for hard water.


NON-FAT DRY MILK - Milk powder has been used for years in sausage making. Acts as a binder by helping to retain the moisture of the meat. Although not highly effective as a binder, it can impart a creamier taste to some sausage products. You can use up to 12% (of the meat weight) without affecting the taste of the sausage. This product is good at hiding salt flavor in most sausage and is used in liver sausage, hot dogs and bologna

FERMENTO - Use to produce a tangy taste in sausage such as summer, pepperoni and thuringer. The recommended level to start with is 3%, add up to 6% to produce a tangier taste, but do not exceed 6% or the sausage will become mushy. This product does not require refrigeration.


ENCAPSULATED CITRIC ACID: Use encapsulated citric acid when making summer sausage or snack sticks and that distinctive “tang”, associated with reduce pH, is desired but the lengthy fermentation cycle is not. When used correctly, it is almost impossible to tell if the sausage was manufactured by fermentation or by the use of this product. There is no need to worry about processing under special conditions. You just add the citric acid to the meat at end of the mixing process (making sure that you do not grind meat again), and then blend into the meat by hand or by mixer. If using a meat mixer, mix only until the encapsulated citric acid is blended into the meat mix, usually about one minute is enough. Longer mixing can cause the capsules to rupture resulting in the premature release of the citric acid.
Encapsulated citric acid is citric acid, a naturally occurring acid that has been encapsulated (coated) with maltodextrin, a hydrogenated vegetable oil, which will melt at 141-147 degrees F. releasing the citric acid into the meat product. This prevents the citric acid from releasing and prematurely lowering the ph of your sausage meat mix. If the meat’s ph drops before the protein sets at 105-115 degrees, you will get a negative effect on the texture of your finished sausage. It won't bind as well, and the texture will be crumbly.
Encapsulated citric acid should be added and mixed in after the grinding is complete as not to rupture the capsules. Since the encapsulation prevents release into the meat until the meat’s internal temperature reaches 141-147 degrees F. a ruptured or damaged capsule will release the citric acid prematurely causing the undesired affects listed above.
Once the capsule is melted releasing the citric acid into the product decrease in pH is achieved resulting in the distinctive "tang" or sour taste associated with reduced pH products.
Suggested usage for this purpose is 3 oz. for 25 lb. of meat. (Too much Citric Acid will cause the meat to turn white.) Also use to preserve color of fresh sausage during storage. Use 1/2 oz. to 1 oz. per 100 lb. of meat for this purpose.
Use Citric Acid to raise the acid level in low acid varieties of tomatoes. Once considered an acid food that could be safely canned in a boiling-water canner. However, when some newer, less acidic varieties of tomatoes are canned, certain precautions must be taken to trevent the potential for botulism.
Home brewers often use citric acid, for example to lower mash or water pH and adjust to acid level in fruit wines.

page1image359912832
 
Use phosphate instead of NFDM or Soy if you want to watch calories....there are a few different phosphates that will work. AmesPhos probably being the most popular and most readily available as a blend.
I dont care about calories at all. I just want good sausage that doesn’t have sugar and has good ingredients.
 
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Thank you. That is really helpful.

So basically, it helps retain the fat and makes it juicer. I take it this is why my hot dogs have been a little drier than I want. They werent bad but I feel like they could be a little better.

I wonder if using a Milk Protein Isolate protein powder would work. I work with a company that makes meal replacements and that is the protein they use. It has no fat in it.
 
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The NFDM nonfat dry milk, or soy, are acting as binders to keep the fat bound in sausage and not come out during cook.

They make it easier to get a good juicy sausage without fat-out. But not necessary. You can get a good bind with just meat if you observe following:
1. Keep meat cold, <34f, while grinding, I target 28 to 31. Rechill. Keep cold during mixing. Mixing by machine, not hand, is faster and keeps meat colder. Keep <34 while stuffing. Basically you usually need to rechill meat between each step.
2. Mix well for a strong super sticky protein extraction. 4 to 5 min on a kitchenaid, 6 to 8 on a hand cranked mixer.
3. Don't let external heat while cooking go above 170f, so the fat inside or just under skin doesn't melt. Easy on dedicated electric smoker, but not on pellet grills. You can do this by smoking at liw temp jist 1 or 2 hrs for smoke flavor, then bagging and sous vide at 160 to 165f for 30 min or so til internal temp 145 to 160, depends what you like. If you will reheat/cook later, then 145 is fine.

Binder just lets you get away with letting meat get warmer, poor mixing, and too hot cooks.

Eric at 2guysandaCooler has a video where he split a batch, and let one meat batch get to just 38f-40 when mixing and stuffing, other was 32f. Smoked together, gathered fat drippings from each... the warmer batch had 5x as much fat drip out!! Tons of folks will tell you their sausage is just fine mixed warm, but they haven't done a test like Eric, so no basis of comparison for how much better it could be.

Watch this recent video of his, and you will see his standard Good Practices for properly making sausages and watching meat temp. If you just follow his basic practices, you won't need any extra binders.


P.s. NFDM is like 35% protein while meat is only 25%... so should comply with your carnivore thing, use it at 1% of meat block, good binder.
1/3c or 23g is enough for 2300 g meat, which is 5 lbs. It has 12g carbs. A Johnsonville brat is 83g or 3oz, so there are 27 brats in 5 lbs. So using the 1/3c or 23g of NFDM in 5 lbs meat will add 0.45g carbs per sausage... half a gram. Should be OK for your limits.

Hey Dave, thanks for the information. I normally use around 2% NFDM that I get from the grocery store. You mentioned to use 1%, am I overdoing it? I'm just wondering if I can get the same results and use less product?
Thanks for the post,
Bill
 
Tinner340 Tinner340 Bill,
I think my post was trying to help guy get minimum carbs, thus 1%. So his intent is NOT the standard driving forces in a recipe, so don't read that as an all around sausage suggestion... that was low carb.
Marianski states that NFDM is used at 1-3%. Additionally, while he makes no distinction, there are many soyrces that claim Hi Temperature NFDM is much more effective than store bought normal low temp nfdm. I have read many food science research papers on hutemp vs low temp nfdm, and it does appear that commercial producers do use hi temp stuff and have a lot of science behind it.

That being said, I just buy nfdm from Safeway and use it with decent results.

The amount needed really varies, and you can't really be sure if ANY was needed, if it works! So many factors... type of meat changes binding a lot. How much protein extraction happens. If meat was mixed Correctly with salt to extract protein. How much salt. How much water or liquid is being used. If fat was mixed with meat, smearing it during protein extraction, or added later. Fat particle size. Temperatures during the grind for meat and fat. Temps during the mix. Temp during stuffing. Other binders.

Basically it is pretty easy to correctly make a sausage with zero binders if all processes are kept below 34f, meat is highly extracted with 1.7% salt or more, fat is mixed in separately after extraction so no smearing. And probably most important, cooking method. Is external temp ever allowed to exceed 165? How long is it subjected to fat melting temps? Is it sous vide cooked?

I add binders so I don't get fat out. I've successfully made brats, kielbasa, other smoked sausages and snacksticks with zero binder. But I add nfdm binder as an insurance policy for 175f temps so I can speed the smoke along sometimes. I've done 1 or 2%. Didn't seem to affect flavor or be detectable so no huge downside.

Lot of guys here swear by sodium phosphates, of which Sttp or sodium tripoly phosphate is commonly in the mix. It is a strong binder of water. I have it and have used a few times, not enough controlled study to make statements though.

Other binders used are gelatin, corn starch, potato starch, cereal flours. I use Bull Flour, a mix of wheat, corn, rice, oat, and buckwheat flours, to make central TX BBQ sausages due to its traditional use, it worked great at high temps.

So I guess I'm saying there isn't a downside really, it is good insurance, but try to use good processes below 34f as your 1st method ;) I mostly use nfdm most in snacksticks I run on a traeger that gets to 200f sometimes. Maybe it would be fine with none, but... who knows, and I hate fat out, they come out fine with it soo... I use it ;)
 
Tinner340 Tinner340 Bill,
I think my post was trying to help guy get minimum carbs, thus 1%. So his intent is NOT the standard driving forces in a recipe, so don't read that as an all around sausage suggestion... that was low carb.
Marianski states that NFDM is used at 1-3%. Additionally, while he makes no distinction, there are many soyrces that claim Hi Temperature NFDM is much more effective than store bought normal low temp nfdm. I have read many food science research papers on hutemp vs low temp nfdm, and it does appear that commercial producers do use hi temp stuff and have a lot of science behind it.

That being said, I just buy nfdm from Safeway and use it with decent results.

The amount needed really varies, and you can't really be sure if ANY was needed, if it works! So many factors... type of meat changes binding a lot. How much protein extraction happens. If meat was mixed Correctly with salt to extract protein. How much salt. How much water or liquid is being used. If fat was mixed with meat, smearing it during protein extraction, or added later. Fat particle size. Temperatures during the grind for meat and fat. Temps during the mix. Temp during stuffing. Other binders.

Basically it is pretty easy to correctly make a sausage with zero binders if all processes are kept below 34f, meat is highly extracted with 1.7% salt or more, fat is mixed in separately after extraction so no smearing. And probably most important, cooking method. Is external temp ever allowed to exceed 165? How long is it subjected to fat melting temps? Is it sous vide cooked?

I add binders so I don't get fat out. I've successfully made brats, kielbasa, other smoked sausages and snacksticks with zero binder. But I add nfdm binder as an insurance policy for 175f temps so I can speed the smoke along sometimes. I've done 1 or 2%. Didn't seem to affect flavor or be detectable so no huge downside.

Lot of guys here swear by sodium phosphates, of which Sttp or sodium tripoly phosphate is commonly in the mix. It is a strong binder of water. I have it and have used a few times, not enough controlled study to make statements though.

Other binders used are gelatin, corn starch, potato starch, cereal flours. I use Bull Flour, a mix of wheat, corn, rice, oat, and buckwheat flours, to make central TX BBQ sausages due to its traditional use, it worked great at high temps.

So I guess I'm saying there isn't a downside really, it is good insurance, but try to use good processes below 34f as your 1st method ;) I mostly use nfdm most in snacksticks I run on a traeger that gets to 200f sometimes. Maybe it would be fine with none, but... who knows, and I hate fat out, they come out fine with it soo... I use it ;)
Dave,
Thanks for clarifying and great information! I use NFDM on most all of my sausages for reasons you have mentioned, to help shore up fat-out (it's nice to not have any fat drippings on the bottom of my smoker) and improve texture/flavor characteristics. I haven't used any other types of binders.
I have read, low temp NFDM is good for 160*f while high temp, in turn, is good for 190*f. I'm not sure what happens after those temps are realized but I don't get there anyway.
In Marianski's book, on page 219(guidelines for spice usage) he recommends 4g per kilogram of meat of MFDM??? I guess either it's a typo or the recommendation there is for flavor. I couldn't find the 1%-3% suggestion, but that is not to say it isn't there. :D
 
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Tinner340 Tinner340
Eh, Marianski usually repeats his additive usages, but with differing amounts. It ki d of tells you that the range exists, and actual amount not critical, depends on all those circumstances. So for example, in his Home Production book:

Pg 163. Non fat dry milk powder is a good natural product and it does not affect the flavor of the product. It is added at about 3% and effectively binds water and emulsifies fats.

Pg 172: Non-fat dry milk 1-3%

Pg 279: Ingredients in g per 1 kg of meat non fat dry milk powder 4.0

And then various recipes fall in the range.
Etc.
 
Tinner340 Tinner340
Eh, Marianski usually repeats his additive usages, but with differing amounts. It ki d of tells you that the range exists, and actual amount not critical, depends on all those circumstances. So for example, in his Home Production book:

Pg 163. Non fat dry milk powder is a good natural product and it does not affect the flavor of the product. It is added at about 3% and effectively binds water and emulsifies fats.

Pg 172: Non-fat dry milk 1-3%

Pg 279: Ingredients in g per 1 kg of meat non fat dry milk powder 4.0

And then various recipes fall in the range.
Etc.
Interesting, none of these page in my book,(Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages) mention NFDM. Must be a different publishing date. Spice proportion is on pp219. In my index there is only one mention of non fat dry milk on pp23. It states "It may be further enhanced by lightly sprinkling meat surfaces with powdered gelatin. In addition a variety of materials may be used to enhance bindings... Soy protein isolate, soy protein concentrate, Non fat milk powder, caseinate, carrageenan or egg white". No percentages are mentioned. There are a few recipes that call for NFPM ranging from 80g (in his potato sausages) to 28g per kilo.
 
Slowly formed an opinion that STPP is better for emulsified stuff and NFDM for ground. Also, I think you need to add ice/water/liquid to emulsified stuff to get the benefit of using it too. Kinda bizarre that nutritional info on these binders is not readily available but admit at the small dose rates it's probably Keto safe or at least "dirty". Also agree that binders are insurance of sorts and not necessary and lately I think salting/curing a day or 2 before grinding to final size is the trick for me.
 
Interesting, none of these page in my book,(Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages) mention NFDM. Must be a different publishing date. Spice proportion is on pp219. In my index there is only one mention of non fat dry milk on pp23. It states "It may be further enhanced by lightly sprinkling meat surfaces with powdered gelatin. In addition a variety of materials may be used to enhance bindings... Soy protein isolate, soy protein concentrate, Non fat milk powder, caseinate, carrageenan or egg white". No percentages are mentioned. There are a few recipes that call for NFPM ranging from 80g (in his potato sausages) to 28g per kilo.
I have the digital version of Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages, so maybe my kindle page numbers are different? Like my spice proportion nfdm is on page 279. Also, while it may not be in the index, I am using the digital SEARCH function, type in dry milk, and all 20 places he mentions it show up with the paragraph they are in... makes it super easy to find every place something is actually in the book ;)
 
I have the digital version of Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages, so maybe my kindle page numbers are different? Like my spice proportion nfdm is on page 279. Also, while it may not be in the index, I am using the digital SEARCH function, type in dry milk, and all 20 places he mentions it show up with the paragraph they are in... makes it super easy to find every place something is actually in the book ;)
Nice, I need to upgrade!
 
I have some TSM NFDM that says best by Aug 22. Does it go bad or is this just a case of they have to put a date on it?
 
I have the digital version of Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages, so maybe my kindle page numbers are different? Like my spice proportion nfdm is on page 279. Also, while it may not be in the index, I am using the digital SEARCH function, type in dry milk, and all 20 places he mentions it show up with the paragraph they are in... makes it super easy to find every place something is actually in the book ;)
I also have the Kindle version, but the actual printed edition would have been handier a lot of times that I can think of. I will also get the actual book to add to the collection.
 
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I have some TSM NFDM that says best by Aug 22. Does it go bad or is this just a case of they have to put a date on it?
Kinda both. All that dry protein can oxidise. Best is to keep in sealed container. But I personally would use it well past that date without issue.

Here's a good trick for bulk stuff like TSM nfdm, split it up and vac seal in smaller units so it doesnt oxidise. Toss an oxygen absorber in there and seal.
You can get 120 of those absorberd for $10
 
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