"Dry Brining" for Butts?

[Count Porcula]

Yesterday I was trying to find out if brining a butt was a good idea or not, and I came across a Serious Eats article on "dry brining." In case you haven't heard of this, it simply means salting meat and letting it rest before cooking. It's a silly term. Brining has to involve brine.

The folks at Serious Eats maintain it gives better browning. They say you get the same results as you would from actual brining, but you get crispier skin, and the meat won't be watery.

I don't know what they're referring to when they say brined meat gets watery. I bone and brine turkeys, and instead of "watery," I would describe them as knee-melting bundles of culinary ecstasy. But everyone's turkey is different, I guess.

I thought brining might be a waste of time for a thick piece of meat, since it would take so long to work.

They recommend mixing salt and baking powder in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. I decided to try it for the heck of it. I Last night, I applied this to my pork shoulder, because I don't want to say I applied it to my butt, and this morning, I applied my usual rub, but I withheld the salt for obvious reasons. When I took the meat out of the fridge, it was dry outside, as they said it would be.

The big problem I noticed was that I had to apply a little water to the meat to make the rub stick. They say not to "rinse" the meat because it undoes the brining benefits with regard to the outside, but I had no choice.

Has anyone else tried this? I'm at about 168 degrees at the moment and eager to see what happens.

The big brain at Serious Eats is a guy named Kenji Lopez-Alt. He seems to be an Alton Brown clone. He provides advice which is supposedly based on science.

I have found information there I considered useful, but it appears a lot of foodies practically worship this guy and think he is the ultimate authority on everything. Like every argument has to end once he has been quoted. Call me skeptical. He operates a restaurant that gets lackluster reviews, and he published some bad advice about pizza. It showed he didn't really know much about it.

 

[JLeonard]

I may show my ignorance.....But isnt dry brining kinda like what you do when you put rub on ribs, butt, etc and let it sit in the fridge over night?

Jim

 

[Count Porcula]

Yeah, but without the seasonings. Just salt and maybe some baking powder.

I never let meat sit in the fridge with rub on it. Never thought of it. Does it work?

 

[jcam222]

In my opinion completely unnecessary for such a fatty piece of meat that falls apart when cooked to correct temp. I could see this perhaps with a loin.

 

[Marknmd]

I think most folks know the benefits of salt and brining. It's been around for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years.

The idea of "dry brining" as it is used today was popularized by Judy Rodgers about 20 years ago in her world famous Zuni Chicken recipe. It has slowly gained popularity and is now known world wide. It has become especially popular in the sense of using in steaks. Nobody I knew dry brined steaks 20 years ago, but almost everybody does it now. A dry brine enhances the flavor, retains moisture, and makes the meat more tender.

It can also be used in large hunks of meat, of course, but it's not as popular.

Kenji knows his stuff. There are quite a few techniques he has which are sigificantly better than others I have seen. He writes for the New York Times regularly.

I agree that it promotes browning, aka the Maillard Effect. But don't dry brine burger patties. It doesn't work for ground meat. You can salt them just before cooking, but dry brining them is an error.

I just smoked a pork butt on Sunday. But I did not dry brine it. Why? I just didn't have time. But it's not a big deal. You can just use your favorite rub. You also might prefer a sugar based rub. Since you're going to likely pull it anyway, you can add rub to the pan after you pull it if you wish. Lots of really good cooks don't dry brine large pieces of meat. And there are a lot of good reasons to do it or not to do it depending on the cook.

If I was cooking steak on Sunday, I definitely would have dry brined it. 100%. It would be goofy not to.

MHO

Tons of info on this all over the web and in lots of cook books everywhere.

Good luck

 

[JLeonard]

I may have mispoke....Maybe not over night but for a period of time.

Jim

 

[Marknmd]

I may have mispoke....Maybe not over night but for a period of time.

Jim

When I do steaks, it only takes a few hours. Half tsp of kosher salt per pound of steak. Put in zip lock. Put in 'fridge. Three hours. Simple.

If you watch the steak, it will get wet the first hour as the salt pulls out the moisture from the meat. Then it will be dry the second hour as the salt dissolves and the moisture reabsorbs into the meat. The third hour gives it time to get to the middle of the meat.

And that's why you want it covered - so the moisture that gets pulled doesn't evaporate before it has a chance to reabsorb.

For a large Christmas Ribeye roast, I would do the same but push it to at least a day or two. Maybe even three.

 

[Count Porcula]

I always salt rib roasts days in advance. Until today, I never knew I was "brining."

The claim, on Serious Eats, that brining makes meat watery shows me they don't know as much as people think they do. This is why I posted my question here, where there are so many people who really know smoking. I would rather hear from a guy who has smoked a hundred butts and who hangs out on a smoking forum than a pro chef who dabbles in everything.

Lopez-Alt's pizza sauce recipe is a good example of someone getting out of his lane. He says to use "tomatoes" without getting more specific. Most canned tomatoes will not make a good sauce no matter what you do with them. You have to choose a good product. Everyone who knows anything about pizza knows that.

 

[Marknmd]

The claim, on Serious Eats, that brining makes meat watery shows me they don't know as much as people think they do.

They used the word "watery?" Do you have a link? Thanks

I think a wet brine adds moisture to the meat. If you weigh the meat, it will be slightly heavier after the wet brine. And therefore, it can slightly dilute the natural flavor of the meat. I think it's a matter of opinion whether that's a good thing. And it also depends on the style of cook.

I don't think a lot of people do the wet brine except around Thanksgiving for the turkey. It does seem there are a lot of posts on it. I prefer the natural flavor of the turkey enhanced by salt, so I will dry brine it. The only thing I will wet brine is a whole pig which I might do once every couple years. It's a process but definitely worth it. Last time my daughter's friends were here and ate it down like a large school of piranha. They even ate some of the brain. I tried a taste of it. Didn't care for it.

Edit: Chud did wet brine pork ribs and posted just this morning and has a lot of favorable and interesting comments:

https://www.youtube.com/@ChudsBbq/search?query=Some%20Very%20Tasty%20BBQ%20Ribs!

 

[Count Porcula]

The butt came out fine, but no better than it would have without "dry brining." Seems like a waste of time to me. The skin was not crisp. I don't know if the salt treatment did that or what, but the butt I made a few days ago the normal way had a magnificent crisp skin.

Next time I'll do real brining.

 

[noboundaries]

The one thing I've noticed when dry brining beef (steaks, tri tips, roasts, etc) is I use half as much salty rub or salt alone than I would with a hunk of beef I salt then immediately cook/smoke.

 

[chopsaw]

I thought brining might be a waste of time for a thick piece of meat, since it would take so long to work.

I've been messing with this for awhile now . I even go a step farther and freeze the meat for a month or more . I stumbled across this by accident , but it has an effect on the outcome .

They recommend mixing salt and baking powder

The baking powder changes the PH of the surface of the meat . I sometimes do it with smoked wings . I don't see it as a good add for this . I would think it keeps the seasonings from sucking into the meat . Looks like he's using it to color and crisp up the outside .

brain at Serious Eats is a guy named Kenji Lopez-Alt.

I'm a fan to a point . He has good info that I take as his results and opinions .
I just apply what I already know . I mostly look at his SV stuff .

Here's a section of pork loin that I did a few weeks ago . I weighed the meat and applied the salt at 2% of the weight . I used that amount to get the reaction from the dry brine .
I ground the spices from whole in with the salt .

Applied a heavy coat , the wrapped in plastic wrap and vac sealed . In the fridge at 36 degrees for a week .

This is out of the fridge . I did rinse and re-seasoned with black pepper .

Smoked and cut open . Extremely juicy and full of flavor . It takes time for a full effect .
I just plan for it when I buy and break down the meat .

 

[bakerman]

I have been dry brining steaks, turkeys, and chickens for about 5 years. I cannot afford steaks right now, but I do have a turkey thawing. I plan on dry brining it the night before I put it on the spit. I will report the outcome after this weekend.

The last time I dry brined a turkey it was fabulous. But that one was smoked, this one will spin.

One thing I learned about the steaks, the longer you dry brine the better. One person dry brined his steak for 4 days. I have yet to go that far, overnite or sometime just a couple of hours. Makes the steak more tender and juicy.

Regarding turkey after the brine I just dust with SPOG, and cut the salt ration in half. Haven't had any complaints.

 

[SmokingUPnorth]

My go to for pulled pork is JJ’s finishing sauce (rip). Great finish to pulled pork and no one ever has anything but compliments. (Even picky kids) as jcam222 said, being sick a big piece of meat I’ve never noticed a difference between rubbing the night before or 40 minutes before it goes on

 

[zwiller]

Big dry brine guy myself Marknmd covered it well. For butts, injecting is a must IMO. My formula is based on Mixons. For first foray I suggest trying apple juice.

 

[Marknmd]

Bit of a tangent, but since this is kind of a butt thread, here's the one I did Sunday. The pic is after a few hours. The little chunk you see on the grate is gonna be my snack. The butt was an 8 lb Boston which I cut in half because I didn't want to be up half the night. Still took ten hours though. No brine, but I used Meat Church Holy Voodoo rub and mustard binder just before putting it on. When it was finally done, I just pulled it and made sandwiches with fresh from scratch cole slaw on slider rolls. Finished with from scratch blueberry pie and Breyers vanilla ice cream.

Fast forward to Tuesday night. Marinated the left over already smoked pulled pork in some commercial Goya mojo sauce for a few hours, then heated it up in a pan and made Cubano Cuban sandwiches on the stove top griddle. If you can't find Cuban bread, Panera ciabatta is an excellent cuban bread substitute. Did the Miami version (mustard no mayo). They came out very nice.

 

[Count Porcula]

Do you find that little pieces come out as nice as big ones?

Here's something fantastic no one but me does: pan con lechon calzones. You cut up your pork and fry it with onions and lime juice and garlic. Then you stick it in a calzone with Swiss cheese and bake it. Really unbelievable.

I don't think I've done it with smoked pork, but it would work. You would just have to change the seasoning on the meat.

 

[Marknmd]

I prefer to cook big chunks - I think there is less room for error, less chance of it drying out. But usually when I smoke something, there are some scraps and I just roll them in the rub and throw them on the grate and eat them at the half way point.

Your calzone above - is that with pulled pork or raw pork? Sounds nice. I've been experimenting with homemade pizza lately and so it seems all you'd have to do is fold the pizza dough over and you got a Calzone, right? I might try this.

 

[TripleLindy]

I dry brine butts overnight if I have the time, not for the bark, but for the flavor. Salt is one of the few seasonings that will actually penetrate beyond the surface of the meat and a brined butt has more flavor IMO. I also make my own rubs and omit salt from them when I brine. I think someone mentioned baking powder above. That has nothing to do with brining as it just sits on the surface. It may help with the bark, but I’ve never used it, so I can’t speak to it.

Brined butts:

If you want a deep dive on dry vs wet brining, including the science, check out AmazingRibs.

Wet Brining vs. Dry Brining

Salt helps protein hang onto water during cooking so brining is a great technique to make food moist. But which is better, wet brining or dry brining? It all depends on which meat you're cooking and the results you want. Get the details.

amazingribs.com

 

[Count Porcula]

RE the calzone, it takes a little time to explain.

Cubans roast whole pigs. Obviously, you don't always need a whole pig. The answer is the pernil. This is a pork shoulder soaked in mojo (basically bitter orange, garlic, oregano, and so on) and then slow-cooked in a way that makes the skin crisp and the meat tender.

You can fake bitter orange with OJ plus lime juice. Makes no difference.

Anyway, I have made pan con lechon calzones with this kind of pork. It should be even better if the meat is smoked. It may not sound all that great, but for some reason, it's fantastic. I pull the pork and fry it with fat and onions and so on, and I stick the cheese in the calzone with it and bake. I can't remember whether I put mojo in the pan while I fried the meat. Maybe.

Ordinarily, you serve pan con lechon on Cuban bread and press it, like your sandwich, but a calzone is much, much better.

My BBQ rub has stuff like mustard, cumin, and paprika in it, so it may not be optimal for this sandwich. Then again, maybe it is. I haven't done it yet. Plain old mojo ought to work fine.