Did I make my cure to strong?

[daveomak]

I didn't go back to the beginning and read every post, just picked up on the last several post.
So is Dave saying Pop's is wrong ? and you shouldn't use TQ ? I'm a TQ guy, when I first started I contacted Morton's and asked about their TQ, They sent me a recipe book and assured me that if I followed their directions I would be fine. That was about 10 years ago and I'm still alive and kicking.

Gary

TQ was never any part of my conversation and I never said Pops was wrong...

 

[pops6927]

Let me present this photo of the intructions from a package of cure #1:

Do you seer where it says : "... 24 pounds of curing salt to 100 gallons of water ..."?
take 24 lbs x 16 oz per pound = 384 oz. per 100 gallons of water. That is THE MAXIMUM concentration allowed by Federal Law. Reducing it down proportionally, that is 3.84 oz. of curing salt per 1 gallon of water MAXIMUM allowed. But, my dad PROVED to the NYS Inspectors (no Federal Inspectors way back then in the 1940's and 50's) that a milder cure was sufficient to fully cure meat products by letting them cure longer in a lower concentration curing brine! Thus, that is how he made his more tender, juicier hams and bacons! And, I did tests over a 2 year period trying to find his "perfect Mix" of curing salt to water ratio and developed "Pop's Curing Brine" of 1 oz. (heaping tablespoon - a level tablespoon of curing salt is .88 of an oz.. but a heaping tablespoon is 1 oz.)) of curing salt to 1 gallon of water. Now yes, you could do 2 oz. or 3 oz. or the maximum 3'84 oz, to cure your products in a shorter time frame, but risk making the meat more rubbery and less tender than at the milder cure ratio of 1 oz. per gallon of concentration.
Likewise, I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same! Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required! Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat, the water, the other ingredients, etc. to make a successful curing brine.
Injection with the curing brine is at 2" per thickness of meat - actually a 2" x 2" area for sufficient coverage.
A 10% pump is about the most a meat can absorb without leaking out through natural seams. That is weighing the meat prior to injection, then weighing the meat post injection and calculating the increase in weight, about 10%.
Their are producers that will do a 15% or 20% pump (like cooked deli hams), but it is truly watery garbage! Stick with 10% whenever available! (Of course, that is net weight after cooking and processing). My dad's hams were below original weights consistently!
May I answer any other questions?
Thank you!

 

[pops6927]

Now, I have successfully injected and cured and smoked a side loin of pork into Canadian Bacon using ONLY 1 gallon of water and 1 oz. of cure #1 and ½ cup of Stevia sugar, proving my curing brine is effective!

"Clear Pickle" Ultra Lo-Salt Canadian Bacon

Ok, I can only have under 1500 mg of salt per day (a small teaspoon or less). So, I am experimenting again, like I did with Pop's Curing Brine, using only the salt contained in the Cure #1 ingredient! I also added ½ cup of sugar substitute (Stevia) 0 calorie. I named it "Pop's Clear Pickle...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[JC in GB]

Let me present this photo of the intructions from a package of cure #1:
View attachment 449029

Do you seer where it says : "... 24 pounds of curing salt to 100 gallons of water ..."?
take 24 lbs x 16 oz per pound = 384 oz. per 100 gallons of water. That is THE MAXIMUM concentration allowed by Federal Law. Reducing it down proportionally, that is 3.84 oz. of curing salt per 1 gallon of water MAXIMUM allowed. But, my dad PROVED to the NYS Inspectors (no Federal Inspectors way back then in the 1940's and 50's) that a milder cure was sufficient to fully cure meat products by letting them cure longer in a lower concentration curing brine! Thus, that is how he made his more tender, juicier hams and bacons! And, I did tests over a 2 year period trying to find his "perfect Mix" of curing salt to water ratio and developed "Pop's Curing Brine" of 1 oz. (heaping tablespoon - a level tablespoon of curing salt is .88 of an oz.. but a heaping tablespoon is 1 oz.)) of curing salt to 1 gallon of water. Now yes, you could do 2 oz. or 3 oz. or the maximum 3'84 oz, to cure your products in a shorter time frame, but risk making the meat more rubbery and less tender than at the milder cure ratio of 1 oz. per gallon of concentration.
Likewise, I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same! Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required! Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat, the water, the other ingredients, etc. to make a successful curing brine.
Injection with the curing brine is at 2" per thickness of meat - actually a 2" x 2" area for sufficient coverage.
A 10% pump is about the most a meat can absorb without leaking out through natural seams. That is weighing the meat prior to injection, then weighing the meat post injection and calculating the increase in weight, about 10%.
Their are producers that will do a 15% or 20% pump (like cooked deli hams), but it is truly watery garbage! Stick with 10% whenever available! (Of course, that is net weight after cooking and processing). My dad's hams were below original weights consistently!
May I answer any other questions?
Thank you!

I don't understand the debate here. The mathematics is clear. The Pop's brine formula clearly puts you in the safe range for NaNo3 concentration. I would surely use it if I was curing larger quantities of meat.

I learned from disco that as long as you are following safety guidelines you are doing it right. So many just want to pick fly shit out of the pepper.

Thanks Pops.....

JC

 

[Bearcarver]

Thank You Pops!!
You explained it simply & perfectly right here:
Likewise, I have cured 1 chicken leg in a 55 gallon bucket of curing brine as well as a whole chicken in 1 gallon of curing brine for the same amount of time, and they both turned out exactly the same! Proving it is NOT the VOLUME, but the CONCENTRATION of the curing brine that is required! Debunking the idiom of having to weigh the meat, the water, the other ingredients, etc. to make a successful curing brine.

This is why when somebody comes to me, and they say they want to use Cure #1 in a Brine cure, I send them to Pops, so they can use his "Tried & True" Method. By the same token, I've had people come to me who were sent by Pops. Pops does a lot of Awesome stuff with his curing Method, and I always enjoy reading & reviewing his Threads.

The reason so many people come to me & Pops is "simple"---Yup, We make it "Simple":
I make my Step by Steps Simple to read, Simple to follow, and Simple to duplicate, even for a Newbie, who knows absolutely nothing about Smoking or Curing. They can just follow what is in my Step by Step, and go from start to finish, and end up with an Awesome Product, and get there safely.
By the same Token, Pops' Method couldn't be any easier either, when all you have to do is put the right amount of Cure #1 into the right amount of Water, some other seasonings, and some sugar of some sort. Inject some cure if it's more than 2" Thick. Then make sure the meat is all completely submerged for the right length of time at the right Temp.

These two methods are like I said easy for a Newbie to get started. Once you do either of these a couple times, with success under your belt, you can either keep going with either of these methods, or you can try some of the harder methods, which is why I have sent some people to Dave, if they wanted to cure a Whole Ham from scratch, because I don't do Whole Hams from scratch. If I want a Smoked Ham, I always get a Smoked Ham Portion from a Food Market for about a Buck a pound. Then I Smoke it again to make it the Best Tasting "Double Smoked Ham" on the planet (IMHO).

And as for Science---I believe in science---I just prefer to do my Curing & Smoking the easy, Safe, and Tasty way, as stated above.

I also believe in science when it comes to Global Warming.
And also the science that says we should not be ignoring the fact that the current pandemic is getting worse every day.
Mrs Bear & I are still sheltering in place, since the very beginning, and will continue.

Bear

 

[pops6927]

Thank you, Bear, we both want to make curing and smoking simple for everyone to enjoy! Dry or wet brining, it is all good!

 

[bill ace 350]

Pops, Bear, thank you both so much for sharing your techniques and recipes.

I have made bacon and Canadian bacon using both of your recipes with excellent results!

I used Pops recipe for my hams, with excellent results as well.

Both of you unselfishly give your recipes. which have proven to be safe while yielding excellent results.

KISS.

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Not to say that other proven advice should be ignored, just that sometimes people get carried away and overcomplicate things.