Did I just ruin 45 pounds of Pork butts???

[godzgrilla]

I am a green horn.

This is my second attempt at pork butt. The first one I did turned out fantastic. I put it in the smoker and inserted the probe immediately. Then after reading the threads, I realized I should have waited a few hours to insert the probe. I ended up having to turn the smoker up to 300 in order to reach the target internal temperature in 4 hours, then back down to 225 to finish out. As I recall, the smoke took about 16 hours.

That thing was so delicious, my extended family devoured it in short order. I decided to smoke 4 butts on my second attempt. I put them on at 1 a.m. this morning. Since my internal thermometer on my Grilla pellet smoker stayed very consistent with my ThermoWorks Smoke, I really trusted the onboard monitor. I decided to just wait on inserting the probe until this morning, to smoke at 225 for the duration, and only open the smoker once to insert the probe this morning.

Fast forward to this morning. I expected to get up and find myself somewhere in the stall. I inserted the probe into one of the butts, and probed the other 3 with my thermapen. I was setting @ 178°.

It seems that stuffing 4 butts into my Grilla, effected the accuracy of the internal thermometer, and thus the grill kept shoveling the coal to it in order to try to bring the temperature up, which it did.

The settings on my rotary dial goes from "smoke," to 225 to 250 etc. I immediately turnes it down to the smoke setting. The problem, is that the temp drops too low on smoke. I put it back on 225 and it wuickly rose to 270 with the smoker showing 195, so I knew it was still shoveling the pellets in, and it was heading through the roof.

What should I do? As bad as I hate the idea, i think I might have to pull a couple of them out, put them in the oven, and see if the thermostat will start working right with only 2 butts left in the smoker? I am riding the knob right now, going back and forth between smoke and 225. I cannot see that as a long term solution.

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• godzgrilla
• Aug 5, 2017

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• godzgrilla
• Aug 5, 2017

 

[Bearcarver]

I would say, since you already had it to 178° IT, and probably have plenty of smoke on it by now, you can let it go to 270° for the rest of the time, until an internal of about 205°.

Somebody else will have to help you with the fact that a 225° setting runs to 270° or 300°.  I'm just a lowly Wattburner.

Link:

Pulled Boston Pork Butt  

Bear

 

[SmokinAl]

I smoke my butts at 270-280, so I don't see a problem.

It will just get done quicker, but it will still be just as tender & juicy.

Al

 

[heavyd4561]

I smoke my butts at 300 on my stick burner with the outcome being delicious

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• heavyd4561
• Aug 5, 2017

 

[jokensmoken]

You've got no problem.
I had my temp "run away on me once also...what I learned was there was no distinguishable difference in the finished butts. I cook butts at 270°-300° all the time now...
Just let the temp ride and don't worry.
Monitor the butts a little closer for doneness as your times will be a little different at the higher temps.

Walt.

 

[godzgrilla]

Thanks guys, that is a bit of a relief.

I was under the impression that maintaining temperature was more critical to the outcome. I am going to leave the setting on 225 now, and not sweat it unless the actual temperature rises aboves 300. I had been riding the knob, turning it up every time it drops to 200, and turning it down every time it rises to 250.

I will try to figure out why my smoker is not maintaining temperature before the next smoke

 

[chef jimmyj]

On the whole Probe Raw or Wait? It just don't matter. Probe therms have been in use some 70 years and other than than THIS Site there is not a single CDC, USDA, FDA or clinical trial that says, " Probing Raw Meat is Dangerous..." Not one manufacturer has EVER put waiting X hours before probing in the use instructions and IF there was any issue, the Fed would have manufacturers put big Blaze Orange Warning Labels on the Thermometer Box and every page of instructions. Pellet and Oven Manufacturers put Probes in their units to monitor the meat temps Start to Finish. WIFI Therms and programs are design to Graph the cook and meat temps for analysis of problems or for repeatable results. HOW do you get this temp data waiting 1, 2, 4 or more hours before probing the meat!?!? 

Pellet grills are jack of all trades, master of none. They smoke but only do it well at 180. They grill but at 500°F the grates give Grill Marks but there is not enough Infrared heat to really sear the surface uniformally. They make better Ovens than anything they are advertised as being able to do. For smoking at temps over 180, you need a supplemental smoke generator like an A-MAZE-N Tube. Temp fluctuations are most often a Controller issue...JJ

 

[jokensmoken]

Temp is and isn't critical...
Pork butts are so large and contain so much fat they can take higher temps.
Butts are more forgiving than other cuts.

 

[jokensmoken]

I'm most certainly not ever going to argue with you chef.
I just want to be safe.

So, that being said, here is how it was explained to me...

The danger exists that pathogens or contaminates could be introduced to raw meat with a probe and because the smoking technique most of us employ dictates we cook at such low temps the danger exists, due to those low cooking temps, the meat wouldn't get out of the danger zone in the recommended safe length of time.
That same concern isn't realized using conventional cooking techniques because the higher cooking temps cause the food (meat) to rise through the danger zone much quicker.

You're saying this concern is hooey and we shouldn't worry about it.

Walt.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Hooey? Pretty much...

Taking a Butt or Roast that is covered in a Rub for 1 to 24 hours that contains Salt, inhibits bacterial reproduction both Hygroscopically and through Ionic infiltration into the cell itself, Sugar, highly Hygroscopic robbing moisture needed to reproduce and a host of other unfriendly ingredients like Garlic and Chiles, the reason these ingredients are used in Italian and other Salt only curing like Coppa and Jerky, the number of Active Bacteria punched in with a Single Therm Probe,  is insignificant at worst and nonexistent at best. Now of course punch a whole bunch of holes with Injections or Garlic cloves and  insignificant adds up to possible trouble when the fire dies AND the if the IT never gets over 135°F. 

The whole 40 to 140 in 4 offers a huge margin of safety. It is a fool proof guideline originated by my predecessor. No Government agency or Food Safety Organization has this verbatim as it is cobbled together from related sources. SMF adopted the " Rule " as it is easy to remember and we have no idea whom is reading our posts or their knowledge of food safety. However, a simple search of Pathogen Growth rates under Optimum conditions, including initial bacteria numbers, food availability, temp, salinity, acidity and time, shows under perfect conditions growth of bacteria may just begin with in a couple hours but it actually takes 6-8 hours or more to reach any dangerous levels. 

I in no way want to discourage anyone from waiting to probe the meat. I just wish to point out that no one needs to worry about probing raw or if the IT does not get above 140 in exactly 4 hours there is no need to panic or toss the meat...JJ

 

[jokensmoken]

Thanks a bunch Chef.
I appreciate your knowledge and the time you took to spell it out.
I've taken the college level state required safe food courses in Michigan (twice) for professional food handlers and know there was never any mention of such dangers.
Thanks for putting my uncertainty to rest.
As you pointed out, I always wondered what good remote thermos and all their tracking capabilities were if you had to wait half the cook to insert them into the meat.

Walt.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Thanks a bunch Chef.
I appreciate your knowledge and the time you took to spell it out.
I've taken the college level state required safe food courses in Michigan (twice) for professional food handlers and know there was never any mention of such dangers.
Thanks for putting my uncertainty to rest.
As you pointed out, I always wondered what good remote thermos and all their tracking capabilities were if you had to wait half the cook to insert them into the meat.

Walt.

Walt, I greatly appreciate guys like yourself that have food safety training. With the number of members and posts it helps to have other members watching for safety issues. Please keep up the good work. Between going to Culinary school, learning from multiple Health Inspectors in two states and ServSafe Instructor Training, there is no way to get all the safety info from one source. Then, just as you think you have this stuff down, another study is conducted and the guidelines and critical Temps change. Just in the last 20 years the Danger Zone top end has changed twice and recent studies indicate it should be lowered again. Pork minimum temps keep dropping as well. Maybe some day Med/Rare CHICKEN will be on some menu.

...JJ

 

[jokensmoken]

I take my ServSafe credentials any time I'm cooking for large groups away from home...it helps put folks at ease when the certificate is posted or out and visible.
My daughter of all people called me out on it being outdated a few years ago (jokingly) so I made her take the course with me.

 

[godzgrilla]

On the whole Probe Raw or Wait? It just don't matter. Probe therms have been in use some 70 years and other than than THIS Site there is not a single CDC, USDA, FDA or clinical trial that says, " Probing Raw Meat is Dangerous..." Not one manufacturer has EVER put waiting X hours before probing in the use instructions and IF there was any issue, the Fed would have manufacturers put big Blaze Orange Warning Labels on the Thermometer Box and every page of instructions. Pellet and Oven Manufacturers put Probes in their units to monitor the meat temps Start to Finish. WIFI Therms and programs are design to Graph the cook and meat temps for analysis of problems or for repeatable results. HOW do you get this temp data waiting 1, 2, 4 or more hours before probing the meat!?!? 

Pellet grills are jack of all trades, master of none. They smoke but only do it well at 180. They grill but at 500°F the grates give Grill Marks but there is not enough Infrared heat to really sear the surface uniformally. They make better Ovens than anything they are advertised as being able to do. For smoking at temps over 180, you need a supplemental smoke generator like an A-MAZE-N Tube. Temp fluctuations are most often a Controller issue...JJ

Well thanks, that is good to know. I know very little about this stuff. It makes sense to me though. The only reason I had that idea was because of a thread I read on here. I had not heard any dissenting opinions. It seems reasonable to me that if you washed your probe really good with soap and water right before you inserted it, that there should be little chance of pushing bacteria into the meat.

I have no experience with pellet smokers vs. anything else. I can say that the pulled pork I smoked on my Grilla the last time, is every bit as good as any pulled pork I have ever eaten in a BBQ joint. On the butts I smoked today, I pretty much screwed up the one I put in the oven. Two of them are almost as good as the last one. One of them is still in the smoker. It was the cat-daddy of all of them, and it is just now at 184°.

This thing seems to put out a great deal of blue smoke. Does this look like what is typical of what comes out of a pellet grill?

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• godzgrilla
• Aug 5, 2017

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• godzgrilla
• Aug 5, 2017

 

[jokensmoken]

I don't have ANY experience with pellet smokers...BUT...
If I had that.much smoke coming out any of other types of smokers for more than a few minutes, I'd be choking it down...
It looks like a lot of smoke to me and if it were mine, I'd be concerned it was too much.

 

[chef jimmyj]

That smoke looks fine to me. The amount can vary by machine and temp...JJ

 

[Bearcarver]

The smoke looks a little heavy to me, but It's hard to tell in some pictures how heavy the smoke is.

The real proof is how it tastes---If it's a little bitter, or tastes like an ash tray the smoke was too heavy for awhile.

The phrase "Too much Smoke" comes from having a smoke that is too Heavy (Thick) for even a relatively short time.

Light smoke for many hours------Great Taste,

Heavy Smoke for even a Short time could be bad.

And not that anyone cares, but I still wait 3 hours (longer than needed) for probing large things like Butts & Prime Rib because I don't feel the need to hurry, when I know the meat won't be done in less than 3 hours.

Bear

 

[godzgrilla]

On everything I have cooked in it so far, the smoke flavor has been STELLAR, with all capital letters. I still have a lot to learn, i have had some other issues. Flavor hasn't been one yet.

I cooked a Brisket that tasted delicious, but it was a little tough. I tried my hand at brining a big batch of boneless skinless chicken thighs. They tasted like a salt lick when they came out of the smoker.

 

[jokensmoken]

Whenever I brine something I slice a small piece and pan fry it for a taste test...mainly saltiness...if it's too salty a 30 minute soak in real cold water helps mellow it...pan fry another piece, if it's still too salty, soak it again.
Adding a sliced up raw potato to the water will help draw out the salt also.
I do this every time I make bacon.

Walt.

 

[chef jimmyj]

My crew are not big salt users. The brine below works well for us. Use Kosher Salt or half the amount of Table/Pickling Salt...JJ

Families Favorite Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran. Garlic

2T Gran. Onion

2T Dry Thyme

2T Black Pepper

1C Vinegar (Any)

1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix

1/2C Brown Sugar, Optional

1T Red Pepper Flake Optional

Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.

Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.

Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.

This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...