Cure #1, Smoking Temps, and Smoking Times

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And next batch....add ECA.....then you will have no worries.

The walton's mix may have more than 2% salt being it is specifically made as a summer sausage mix. I would reach out to them and check on this though.....
 
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Thanks - I did reach out and they checked around with several folks in their service center but were unsure.
 
INGREDIENTS:Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Dextrose, Spices (Including Whole Mustard Seed), Garlic Powder, Natural Spice Extractives.
USAGE:Use 1.46875 lbs of seasoning plus 1 oz of SURE CURE to 25 lbs of meat.
So I just looked at this closely...1.46875lbs. = 666.8125grams

Being that this is almost 1.5# of seasoning....for 25# of meat, I am fairly confident this mix has more than 2.0% salt. My smoke sausage mix has 1.5% salt and it only weighs 252g. for a 25# batch.
 
Killing bacteria with temperature is easy, what’s not easy to figure is weather or not they had time to create toxins, and no amount of thermal processing gets rid of toxin.
For long smoke you need salt, cure, and acidification and if using ECA you still need to hit that 130-140* mark to melt the capsules and release the acid, so can’t stress enough that 140* temp in something close to 4 hours is very key to sausage safety, it’s not an exact time but 10-13 hours is way out of my comfort zone.
 
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Here are the temp readings I had from each of the 4 probes. Initial temp climb to 130 seemed to happen in a reasonable time...but then it appears to have stalled and/or, in the case of probe 4, slid a couple degrees back for several hours.
 
Here are the temp readings I had from each of the 4 probes. Initial temp climb to 130 seemed to happen in a reasonable time...but then it appears to have stalled and/or, in the case of probe 4, slid a couple degrees back for several hours.
Clearly not enough horsepower for the load you had in the smoker. In my view this is not the right setup for #25 load of meat. I would encourage you to buy a good sous vide stick and smoke for about 4 hours then into the hot water bath to finish. I use the Anova Pro which will heat and circulate 26 gallons of water. That’s about 8# water for every pound of meat.

Otherwise smoke them in batches maybe in half, so 12-13# per batch, this will help a lot also.
 
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This thread has really peaked my interest. I've dipped my toes into sausage making over the last 9 months or so, and have mainly been doing Texas BBQ House style sausages, like all beef Texas Hot Guts, and 75/25 Beef Pork mix Jalapeno Cheddar sausage.

So far most of what I've learned has been from various Youtube BBQ guys, primarily Chuds BBQ, Smokin Joe's Pit BBQ, Jirby BBQ, Bill Dumas a.k.a Sausage Sensei, and also Eric at Two Guys and a Cooler (not really a BBQ channel). Chud (Bradley Robinson), Jirby (Jonny White), and Bill Dumas are all professional Pit Masters at some of the most known BBQ joints in Texas.

All of them promote using 0.25% cure #1 to meat weight, and smoking for 4-6 hours at sub 150 temps, which they refer to as cold smoking, although realistically it is not true cold smoking. Salt levels are generally to taste, ranging between 1.5% - 2.0%. I'm a little concerned and also confused because of some of the posts above stating salt should be at least 2.5% in addition to your cure #1 (which to me means minimum TOTAL salt of 2.75% because the cure is also salt based), and the fact that personally I have found anything above total salt of 1.5% INCLUDING The cure #1 to be far too salty for my taste.

I'm wondering how these guys can be doing what they're doing and serving to the public on a mass scale in restaurant settings if it's not safe. Not arguing.. just trying to learn.
 
I'm a little concerned and also confused because of some of the posts above stating salt should be at least 2.5% in addition to your cure #1 (which to me means minimum TOTAL salt of 2.75% because the cure is also salt based), and the fact that personally I have found anything above total salt of 1.5% INCLUDING The cure #1 to be far too salty for my taste.

I'm wondering how these guys can be doing what they're doing and serving to the public on a mass scale in restaurant settings if it's not safe. Not arguing.. just trying to learn.
The 2.75% salt level is for dry cured sausages...a.k.a. salami like soppressata, Milano, Genoa, Pepperoni, etc....to make a shelf stable product.

For basic smoke sausages that will be smoked, 1.25-2% is acceptable.

And yes-the American definition of cold smoke in general is 20-70 degrees or more higher than the rest of the world. I like to use the European definition of cold smoke which is lower than 86*F.

I do not recommend starting off sausages @150*F for 2 reasons...the sausages will tighten up and squeeze out moisture, and you get better smoke penetration at temps. below 140*F....
 
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The 2.75% salt level is for dry cured sausages...a.k.a. salami like soppressata, Milano, Genoa, Pepperoni, etc....to make a shelf stable product.

For basic smoke sausages that will be smoked, 1.25-2% is acceptable.

And yes-the American definition of cold smoke in general is 20-70 degrees or more higher than the rest of the world. I like to use the European definition of cold smoke which is lower than 86*F.

I do not recommend starting off sausages @150*F for 2 reasons...the sausages will tighten up and squeeze out moisture, and you get better smoke penetration at temps. below 140*F....

Ok, thanks. So just to be clear, are you saying that for basic smoked sausages with 1.25 - 2.00% total salt including the 0.25% cure #1, it is safe to smoke at temps below 140* F for say 4-6 hours?

I actually have a small batch I was going to smoke today which is just a basic 75/25 beef pork mix with total salt of 1.5% including the cure #1.

I have found a super easy way for me to smoke them is using my Weber Smokey Mountain with an A-Maze-N pellet tray and I remove the water pan. I basically just open all the vents 100% and sit the lit pellet tray on the coal grate. With the WSM sitting directly in the hot sun, grate temperature based on my Fireboard 2 probe ranges between 120 to 140* F with no added heat (in the morning around 10AM etc. it's around 120, the later it gets the temp goes up on it's own. If I want to bump the temps up I put a few lit pieces of lump in there and I can get it up anywhere from 150-170.

Cased-LInked-Beef-Pork-Sausage.jpg
 
If inda's numbers are including the the cure, you're good. If his numbers aren't including the cure, you're still good because you have 1.25% salt plus the .25% from the cure.
 
I go with 1.5% salt and 0.25% cure#1 which is 1.75% total but dropping the salt to 1.25% is ok. I personally wouldn't go lower than 1.25% salt plus cure.
 
I go with 1.5% salt and 0.25% cure#1 which is 1.75% total but dropping the salt to 1.25% is ok. I personally wouldn't go lower than 1.25% salt plus cure.
Makes sense. I originally started out at 2.00% including cure #1 and have reduced it over time as I felt the final product was a little too salty. I also had several other people try it and even at 1.75 including the cure #1 everyone still felt it was just a tad too salty. I think 1.50% total felt like the sweet spot, not too salty, but just enough.
 
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kevin james kevin james
When hot smoking and running salt in the 1.5-2% range, you still need to finish the sausage internal temperature to 150-154*F so that it is cooked. Other than nitrite you have no other safety hurdles for bacteria and so thermal processing should be included.
 
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kevin james kevin james
When hot smoking and running salt in the 1.5-2% range, you still need to finish the sausage internal temperature to 150-154*F so that it is cooked. Other than nitrite you have no other safety hurdles for bacteria and so thermal processing should be included.
Yes, I do temp them and usually take them up to 155-160 before they are pulled. Thanks for the info.
 
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