Cure #1, Smoking Temps, and Smoking Times

[ebbtide3673]

Curious - When smoking summer sausage using cure #1, I typically start out at 120 for an hour with smoke, 140-150 for 4+ hours with smoke, and then bump to 165-170 until finished.

That got me wondering about how long sausage that uses cure number #1 can stay in the "Danger Zone" since it kills and or prohibits the nasties from growing.

So, if internal temps on summer sausage with cure #1 are 120 after 6 hours, does that pose a problem? 8 hours?

Trying to learn. :)

 

[indaswamp]

Cure alone will only offer limited protection against certain pathogenic bacteria. It's a synergism with salt and other safety hurdles that give you protection. How much salt did you use? And since this is a summer sausage, did you ferment or add an acidifier to lower the pH below 5.2? Most American style summer sausage recipes call for acidification down to pH 4.6-4.8 which offers a significant safety hurdle.

So, to answer your question- with the correct amount of cure #1, and at least 2.5% total salt (2.25%NaCl and 0.25% cure #1) AND a pH of 4.6-4.8, you can safely hang summer sausage for 30-35 days in the danger zone....below 60*F. This how salami is dried over time.

But since you are cooking using heat, as long as the above parameters are met, you can smoke for 12-24 hours @120*F. But that is impractical....no need to do that. Hold at that temp. while smoking until you feel that you have enough smoke on them, but I suggest minumum of 6 hours; then continue bumping the heat like you are doing. Keeping in mind that the INT of the summer sausage will trail the smokehouse temperature by 25-30*F....and all the while the summer sausage will be drying-strengthening the safety hurdles.

Also-once you hit INT of 130*F for 30 minutes, with the above parameters in place, enough stress is put on the bad bugs that basically none can survive (Log 7 reduction). What you are doing is pasteurizing the summer sausage while you smoke it....

*edit to add: If the product is not acidified, like regular smoke sausage, it takes significantly more time to achieve a log 7 reduction in pathogens.


*see The Art of Making Fermented Sausages by Stanley and Adam Marianski; page 231

 

[indaswamp]

Also-quick smoking tip...
If that is the smoker you use in your avatar, I suggest elevating the smoke box so the smoke does not have to travel downward to enter the cooking chamber. You will have cleaner smoke and a much better draft...creosote is more than likely building up where the duct turns downward.

 

[ebbtide3673]

Thank you, indaswamp! I typically use something like the Walton's H Summer Sausage Seasoning

INGREDIENTS:Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Dextrose, Spices (Including Whole Mustard Seed), Garlic Powder, Natural Spice Extractives.
USAGE:Use 1.46875 lbs of seasoning plus 1 oz of SURE CURE to 25 lbs of meat.

My process is usually to mix, stuff, set in fridge for 24 hours to set, (34-36 degrees) and then begin smoking. Based on that, and that once it will eventually pasteurize, it could theoretically sit in the 'danger zone' for 24 hours without harm, correct? Or is it more like 10-12?

I don't add an acidifier but I'm not sure I fully understand what is considered fermentation. Would the process of holding in the fridge for 24 hours be considered fermenting?

Also, Re: Raising the smoker so the smoke doesn't travel down, thank you. I didn't know that about the creosote and draft...something to work on before my next batch. :)

 

[SmokinEdge]

I don't add an acidifier but I'm not sure I fully understand what is considered fermentation. Would the process of holding in the fridge for 24 hours be considered fermenting?

To acidify you have a couple options.
1) add fermentation bacteria and dextrose stuff and hang in 70F plus heat with 90% plus humidity for 24-48 hrs testing the PH until you reach the desired PH drop (acidification)
2) use encapsulated citric acid (ECA) which will release in the sausage during the smoking/cooking process And acidify the sausage.

 

[ebbtide3673]

Gotcha. So what I'm doing is not considered fermenting.

Going back to what indaswamp said in the initial response, since I'm just using cure # 1 and not fermenting or adding an acidifier, what does that do to the timeframes for meat safety? How many hours would I be able to smoke at 120-150 and the meat still be "safe'?

But since you are cooking using heat, as long as the above parameters are met, you can smoke for 12-24 hours @120*F.

 

[DougE]

If you look at Walton's recipe for making summer sausage, they are adding ECA to theirs. If you add it in future batches, there are a couple things to know about it.

How to Make Summer Sausage - Recipe

How To Make Summer Sausage Meat Block 50/50 mix of 80/20 Beef and Pork Trim (or pork butts if trim not available) or 25 lb 80/20 beef trim or 20 ...

meatgistics.waltons.com

I use ECA in some things. ECA should be added after all the other spices are mixed into the meat, and only mixed enough to incorporate. When using ECA, the sausages should be smoked and/or finished to 152° right after stuffing (The citric acid is released into the meat between 130 and 150°). ECA is a cure accelerator, so there is no need to let the sausages sit in the fridge over night for the cure to do its thing, in fact, doing so may cause the citric acid to prematurely be released.

 

[ebbtide3673]

Thanks! Good to know. I have not typically added it but maybe I'll consider doing that in future batches. How do you determine when vs. when not to use ECA?

I'm still wondering how long you can safely smoke at smoker temps of 120-150 if just using cure # 1 and not fermenting or adding an acidifier, especially since the internal temp of the meat will linger in the 130 range. (Eventually it will pasteurize...just wondering how long the it temp can remain sub 140.) Any thoughts or ideas?

Maybe it's been said and I'm just not understanding. Apologies...just trying to learn/understand.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Going back to what indaswamp said in the initial response, since I'm just using cure # 1, and not fermenting or adding an acidifier, what does that do to the timeframes for meat safety? How many hours would I be able to smoke at 120-150 and the meat still be "safe'?

Realistically the 40-140 rule still applies here.

There are safety hurdles that we use to finish sausages in different ways for different end products. These hurdles are salt in 2.5-3% range, cure #1 applied at .25% to meat weight, fermentation this lowers PH to at least 5.3 and acidifies the sausage (lactic acid) AW (available water) this is the drying phase, which is ultimately the force that makes sausage shelf stable.

Ive not seen your salt percentage but I’m guessing it’s lower than 2.5%, if so this is not much of a hurdle in your sausage. You do have cure #1 so there is one hurdle, but there are bacteria that are not controlled by nitrite. So here the nitrite is just about your only safety hurdle other than temperature.

Temperature, once you start smoking above 85F you are warm/hot smoking, the proteins in the meat begin to cook and denature. At 120* you are cooking the surface of the sausage and shortening the amount of time it can take smoke plus limiting the depth of smoke, plus you are right in the danger zone for bacteria growth. Remember it’s the toxins they can produce that is the problem. In my view in this temperature zone you should bring internal temp up to 140F within 4 hours. Then continue working towards a final IT of 151F minimum 154F at about maximum.

I hot smoke my sausage at around 120-130F for 4 to 5 hours then into a preheated SV bath at 151F for about 1 hour. This has proven a very effective process for me.

 

[ebbtide3673]

Hmmm. So that leaves me a bit concerned. Doing a batch right now following this method - Waltons Seasoning + 1 oz cure per 25 pounds of meat. Had probes in a couple sausages and noticed that after 12-13 hours of smoking, the IT temps were in the 130s with 1 in the high 120s and 1 in the low 140s.

Given that this is well outside the 4 hour window, does that mean this batch of sausage is bad?

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you, indaswamp! I typically use something like the Walton's H Summer Sausage Seasoning

INGREDIENTS:Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Dextrose, Spices (Including Whole Mustard Seed), Garlic Powder, Natural Spice Extractives.
USAGE:Use 1.46875 lbs of seasoning plus 1 oz of SURE CURE to 25 lbs of meat.

My process is usually to mix, stuff, set in fridge for 24 hours to set, (34-36 degrees) and then begin smoking. Based on that, and that once it will eventually pasteurize, it could theoretically sit in the 'danger zone' for 24 hours without harm, correct? Or is it more like 10-12?

I don't add an acidifier but I'm not sure I fully understand what is considered fermentation. Would the process of holding in the fridge for 24 hours be considered fermenting?

Also, Re: Raising the smoker so the smoke doesn't travel down, thank you. I didn't know that about the creosote and draft...something to work on before my next batch. :)

Fermentation done the modern way entails using a starter culture of selected bacteria which consume the sugars added to create lactic acid which lowers the pH. There are additives like GLD, encapsulated citric acid (ECA), or cultured buttermilk powder that you can add to immediately lower the pH without the fermentation step.

I'm not certain of the salt percentage used by Walton's, but most pre-made mixes have a significant amount of salt....usually around 2%.

If you did not add an acidifier nor ferment to lower the pH, then I would treat these summer sausages as a regular smoke sausage. Get some smoke on them, then get the INT above 130* as fast as you can without rendering the fat. Continue cooking until INT reaches 150-152*F.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Hmmm. So that leaves me a bit concerned. Doing a batch right now following this method - Waltons Seasoning + 1 oz cure per 25 pounds of meat. Had probes in a couple sausages and noticed that after 12-13 hours of smoking, the IT temps were in the 130s with 1 in the high 120s and 1 in the low 140s.

Given that this is well outside the 4 hour window, does that mean this batch of sausage is bad?

The bigger question is how long did they take to reach 130? This is the temperature where pasteurization starts taking place, from there it’s a product of time. I wouldn’t jump the the conclusion that it’s bad. Is this wild meat? USDA processed meat? One thing for sure you need that IT up and in a hurry.

The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is that since you used nitrite yo do not have a botulism problem, but nitrates are not a cure all. If they were we could make salami with low salt and no acidification, but we cannot do that because of other bad bugs like Staph.aureus and Listeria just to name a couple that are not controlled by nitrite.

If you were acidified, even with ECA, I would say you are good to go, but since not it’s a guess.

 

[indaswamp]

....e. coli would be a concern mainly if you used beef in the summer sausage. This bug is also not affected by nitrite and is somewhat heat tolerant. If the sausage is all USDA processed meat, it would be much less of a concern.

 

[ebbtide3673]

It's 80% venison(one I shot last year and self processed) and 20% pork fat.
I bumped the smoker temp to 170 this morning, at about the 13.5 hour mark. Everything is above 130 now, but it definitely took awhile to get there. As mentioned, at the 13.5 hour mark I still had at least one that was hovering at 128.

 

[DougE]

How do you determine when vs. when not to use ECA?

I use it in sausages where I want a tanginess, like summer sausage and the taylor ham I make. Fermentation also imparts a tanginess and likely gives a better flavor profile than ECA, but they both impart a tanginess by lowering the PH of the meat.

 

[indaswamp]

Well, the venison is the wild card and it totally depends on shot placement and care after the shot. If not gut shot, and you were careful when gutting the deer so as not to puncture the entrails, and followed good sanitation practices, then I would not be concerned. But only you can answer those questions.

 

[indaswamp]

Oh- and I would also shoot for a log 7 reduction, instead of the typical log 5 reduction in pathogens. This just means that the hold times at temp. are longer to ensure significantly more pathogens are destroyed. Follow pasteurization charts......

 

[indaswamp]

If you added cure #1, and if the Walton's has 2% salt like most premixes, then you are around 2.25% salt, which is marginal and on the low end...but might be enough since you are heat treating. I can not say for certain. Someone more knowledgeable than I might know for certain.

-This is one time where I wish jimmyj was still around....he'd know......

 

[indaswamp]

posted in the sausage sticky section:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/pasteurization-times-and-temperatures.302750/

 

[ebbtide3673]

Awesome - Thank you for all the feedback. I've pulled half of them with ITs at 156 or above. (And definitely over 150 for about an hour) Based on pasteurization chart, sounds like I should be in good shape.