Cold smoke, too much smoke?

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I know the old timers @ the rural life museum talk about continuous smoke was mainly to keep the flies and bug off the meat and out of the smokehouse while the meat dried. They say continuous smoke is not necessary for flavor...the smoke needs time to travel through the meat-just like salt and sugar.....

I now have more questions I can ask them the next time I see them.
 
Interesting...May be one of those Smoking Rules passed down. Each generation did it because that's the way they were taught.
But...They never asked, Why?
What started out, To Control Flies. Turns into the Best and Only way to do it...JJ
 
Interesting...May be one of those Smoking Rules passed down. Each generation did it because that's the way they were taught.
But...They never asked, Why?
What started out, To Control Flies. Turns into the Best and Only way to do it...JJ
Found this Chef jj...good read:
https://www.meatsandsausages.com/fish/processing/smoking

All Polish, German, Russian or Lithuanian technology books about smoking agree that cold smoke should be applied below 72° F (22° C). Occasionally a book calls for 77° F (25° C). Old German books specify temperature of cold smoke as 64° F (18° C) or lower. Any recipe that calls for cold smoke higher than 85° F (30° C) makes little sense, as at this temperature proteins coagulate and the texture of the meat changes. The meat gets cooked. The surface area will harden preventing moisture removal and the product will rot inside. This hardened ring will also slow down smoke penetration.

To summarize, the purpose of cold smoking was to dry meats. The product was drying out and the smoke happened to be there. Preservation was on people’s mind and not creating cold smoked flavor.
 
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Found this...
A darker color develops when the smoking time is increased and the thicker smoke is applied. Increasing the smoking time and applying the thinner smoke will produce the same results as decreasing the smoking time and applying the denser smoke.
Which is why I do not want thick white smoke for long cold smokes....
 
It's a new discovery relative to using the Oval or the round tube to burn dust, since Todd plainly states in the directions that the tube is for burning pellets. At least to me... Chopsaw was the first one I saw post about it, and this was after I tried it...I had not seen his thread on it and started another one.


Ok---With the tube, it's new & the first one I noticed do it was Chopsaw.
However, Todd said the tubes aren't made for dust, and they actually don't work with what I consider as dust.
The stuff you guys are turning pellets into isn't dust in my book. It's more of "Granules", because actual Dust would fall through the perforations in the tube.
I would think the kind of Heavy granules you guys end up with from pellets could be gotten from other ways.
Thinking back of all the machines in my Cabinet Shop, I would think the stuff that came from some of them could work in the Tube, such as these possibilities, I would try if I was using a Tube:
Chips & shavings from My Shaper, Jointer, and Planer.
Granules from My Drill Press & Horizontal Boring Machine.
That's about it---The stuff from my all of my Saws & Sanders was too fine.

Bear
 
I would think the kind of Heavy granules you guys end up with from pellets could be gotten from other ways.
This might be opening a can of worms, but I have read that you actually do not want kiln dried wood for smoking meat. The flavor compounds in wood get broken down substantially in the kiln. I have no way to verify if this is true, or if it was just a sales pitch for a pellet company......
 
what i don't understand is that sawdust for smoking is much more expensive than pellets. i would think pellets would be more expensive due to the extra steps involved, but it's the other way around.

A-MAZE-N-DUST SPECIALTY - 4LB
$17.99 or $4.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS SPECIALTY - 20LB
$29.99 or $1.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS STANDARD - 20LB
$24.99 or $1.25/lb
 
what i don't understand is that sawdust for smoking is much more expensive than pellets. i would think pellets would be more expensive due to the extra steps involved, but it's the other way around.

A-MAZE-N-DUST SPECIALTY - 4LB
$17.99 or $4.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS SPECIALTY - 20LB
$29.99 or $1.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS STANDARD - 20LB
$24.99 or $1.25/lb
Which is the reason why Dave started making dust from pellets.......
 
This might be opening a can of worms, but I have read that you actually do not want kiln dried wood for smoking meat. The flavor compounds in wood get broken down substantially in the kiln. I have no way to verify if this is true, or if it was just a sales pitch for a pellet company......

I call BS on that one.
Did you read that in "Mad" magazine?
LOL---Maybe sales pitch for Pellet sales.

Bear


what i don't understand is that sawdust for smoking is much more expensive than pellets. i would think pellets would be more expensive due to the extra steps involved, but it's the other way around.

A-MAZE-N-DUST SPECIALTY - 4LB
$17.99 or $4.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS SPECIALTY - 20LB
$29.99 or $1.49/lb

A-MAZE-N-PELLETS STANDARD - 20LB
$24.99 or $1.25/lb


LOL---I never figured that one out either.
Let me know if you do.

Bear
 
I call BS on that one.
Did you read that in "Mad" magazine?
LOL---Maybe sales pitch for Pellet sales.

Bear
Prof. Greg Blonder says "Wood containing a bit of moisture creates a bit of steam during combustion, which causes smoke particles to clump together. And larger particles are less likely to flow around the meat so they stick more easily. Plus the water changes the nitrate/nitrogen ratio a bit, which affects the smoke ring, which has no flavor but adds eye appeal. The ring is typically larger with kiln dried wood. Kiln dried is considered to taste smokier." Remember, smokier is not always better.
 

I disagree with "Smokier is not better".
Creosote is never better, but Smokier is always better, unless you get to the point of "Too Smoky", especially with Mesquite or my favorite "Hickory". I guess it's possible to get it too smoky with strong woods, but not because it was Kilned.

And now Blonder wants to Steam Smoke, so I guess we should all start soaking our Chips & Chunks before smoking, because Blonder says Kiln dried is too dry to smoke with. Excuse me---"Professor" Blonder.
LOL---He probably has a side job---Selling Smoking Pellets.

Bear
 
Not a Challenge, I'm just interested in learning...l have toured a few Slaughter House/Butcher operations that Cure and Smoke meats and sausage, studied the Southern Smoking Technique for Country Bacon and Hams and the recent Benton's Bacon Video I posted all run Smoke Continously for 24 hours to 7 days.
Is your info anecdotal, as so many techniques are or do you have studies on smoke penetration you can recommend I read. Thanks...JJ
I am no expert by any means and my chemistry knowledge is limited to very basic but I been "trailing" my grandpa old school smoking technique since my childhod and continued to learn through my adulthood... In short, this is what I learned about duration and smoke density...
after initial curing meat surface becomes porous becouse of salt is more concentrated on surface and creates more air pockets. .. it's like a web of microscopic air pockets created by salt osmosis... In the begining, this air web are more dense close to surface and less in meat interior due to time needed for salt to penetrate, withdraw water and create air pockets... as time goes by, meat is drying, shrinks, meat becomes more dense and microscopic air pockets slowly disappear....now back to smoke time and smoke density...
at the beginning of smoking, surface air pockets are filled with smoke, smoke is loaded with chemicals compounds which starts to deposit inside microscopic air pockets... once these air pockets are filled with after burn chemical compounds further smoking is waste of time becouse chemicals compounds deposited inside close to surface air pockets need time to penetrate and populate next layer of meat air pockets. . it's like time delay chain reaction... that's why is smoking time on/time off very important to allow time delay chain reaction to happen....once smoking is done, over drying period of time, chemical compounds will work its way deeper and populate rest of the interior air pocket made by salt reverse osmosis and drying process...
White, thick dense smoke means uncompleted burn and it is loaded with carbon, carbon deposits itself in air pockets and over period of time work its way deeper resulting in harsh, bitter meat taste...
To avoid confusion, I am talking about smoking at very low temperatures in DIY situation. . I could only suspect that large volume smoked meat producers go different route to minimize cost and time knowing that volume of product in store will sell fast and majority of people are happy to occasionally have a slice of tasty meat with smoke after taste. . .
Again, I am no expert by any means, just sharing my limited knowledge....
I hope all this make sense written in my limited english as a second language...
 
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Good thread. Not sure what to call it, maybe DD (Dave's Dust) or DIYD, but I plan to make some and do a shoot out with Todd's real dust. I will say that the real dust is REALLY subtle inside the smoker. TBS is nearly invisible (NIBS) LOL. I would think a MES with mailbox mod using real dust might generate barely any flavor at all. As of late, my plan is to use DIYD for hot smokes and real dust for cold smokes. The real dust is nothing like I've generated wooddorking. It's fibrous. I suspect it made by shredding. I am all for using what is on hand but the lumber guys I knew always sprayed for bugs and fungus.

I would guess the reason the dust costs more is the size/volume. 1 pound of dust is like same size 5lbs bag of pellets.
 
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None of my FASS2S Hardwood ever came in with Bark on it.
I also never saw any bark in the Kilns, which would be where any sprays would still be on the wood.

Bear
 
GREAT explanation Dernek! Your info makes sense. It comes back to Smoking Meat is an Art, with a bit of Science to help us get Consistency. Line up 10 samples of 1" Thick, Apple Wood Smoked Bacon. Cured 7 days with Salt, Sugar and Cure #1, only, and you got TEN DIFFERENT FLAVORS OF BACON. It's the Artisan that varies Smoke Time, Rest or No Rest during 72 hours of Smoking, More or less Sugar and/or Salt used and so forth. They all are GREAT but personal taste identifies which one is BEST. Thank you very much for taking the time to elaborate...JJ
 
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GREAT explanation Dernek! Your info makes sense. It comes back to Smoking Meat is an Art, with a bit of Science to help us get Consistency. Line up 10 samples of 1" Thick, Apple Wood Smoked Bacon. Cured 7 days with Salt, Sugar and Cure #1, only, and you got TEN DIFFERENT FLAVORS OF BACON. It's the Artisan that varies Smoke Time, Rest or No Rest during 72 hours of Smoking, More or less Sugar and/or Salt used and so forth. They all are GREAT but personal taste identifies which one is BEST. Thank you very much for taking the time to elaborate...JJ
Chef jj, Looking back at the Benton's video, the 3 days continuous smoke may be a trade off they made in order to streamline large scale production...Instead of smoking for 7 days, for 12 hours a day....they smoke 3 days continuous then rest for 4. This saves them from having to move the heavy bacon racks in and out of the smoker 14 times...that's a lot of man hours added up.....
 
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I don't know where you guys get bugs in your Kiln Dried Woods.
Like I said earlier, My Hardwoods "FASS2S" never came in with bark on it, and they were all subjected to too high a heat in the Kiln for any bugs to survive. They didn't need to be chemically treated.
And what makes "Air Dried" wood chemical free? How about the Wood used to make pellets? None of that was sprayed for bugs & fungus?

No Chemicals are used in Kilns in the United States.

In Short---There is ZERO Chemicals on or in Hardwood scraps from a Cabinet Shop.

Bear
 
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