Brisket danger?

[Bearcarver]

Thanks everybody for the responses. If I put the probe in at the beginning next time I will be sure to sanitize it. I hated to loose that piece of heaven but I just wasn't sure and wanted to be safe.

I better clarify:

If you put the probe in at the beginning, sanitized or not, you should treat it like ground meat, and get it from 40* to 140* in no longer than 4 hours.

If you don't inject it or probe it until it's been in a 200* plus smoker for awhile (I use 3 hours), then there isn't a big hurry to get it to 140* IT.

You should still sterilize the probe before inserting it (I use Alcohol wipes---A box of 250 is cheap).

Bear

 

[smoker-rco]

Thanks Bear, will do.

 

[chef jimmyj]

OK Guy's you are all right! Under certain circumstances...

The Black and White...

The probe will push some bacteria in.

Typically, 4 hours in the danger zone and that bacteria grew.

Cooking to 165°  or 140° for 12-15 minutes would have eliminated that bacteria.

Yes some common bacteria produce toxin. Many of those toxins are destroyed or inactivated at 200°F.

Cutting away the meat about a 1/2" around the area the probe was in will remove any nasty stuff.

Sterilizing the probe removes bacteria...ON THE PROBE...It has zero affect on the bacteria at the probe site. So while a good idea, MUST be combined with eliminating the bacteria on the meat. This will happen by waiting an hour or so for the meat surface to heat before adding the probe or heating the entry point with another source like a torch or even touching the area with a very hot piece of metal, think, Branding the meat.

Now the GRAY that must be considered before throwing that expensive meat out...

Was the work surface, probe and hands clean before work began? Goes a long way toward safety.  Note: Clean DRY probes are bacteria free. 

Was the meat washed, carefully, no splashing other surfaces before probing? Was a Salty rub applied and allowed to be in contact 15 minutes or longer? Both of these greatly reduce or eliminate bacteria. 

Does the bacteria suddenly produce huge numbers and high levels of toxin at exactly the 4 Hour mark? No, some can reach high numbers in 1 hour at 90 to 120°F, others can take more than 6-7 hours to reach any serious levels. 

4 hours is NOT a magic" toss the meat number " The FDA uses 4 to 6 hours as a guideline. 

Will the temps we cook brisket to have killed the bacteria making it safe. Yes. The only concern is proper cooling, storage and reheating of leftovers.

Will the amount of toxin that may have been produced have killed you? Not necessarily. Of the many types of toxin only a few are deadly. Others only are a danger to the very old, very young and those with immune system issues. 

Bottom line...

If the typical storage and clean handling techniques were used, the meat was washed and/or at least had S & P or a Rub on it, as I suspect it was and was cooked to typical Brisket temps, EVEN with the 6.5 in the danger zone, and the Probe being the only thing the broke the surface...It was extremely likely that Brisket was perfectly safe and delicious. I would have served it to my family...JJ

 

[smoking b]

Thanks for jumping in & clearing that up! 

 

[Bearcarver]

Thanks Jimmy,

I did my best, and since I put my name to all my posts, I tend to lean toward the safe side when it comes to variables & unknowns. Your knowledge is most welcome!!

Bear

 

[beeflover]

Good to know jimmyj thank u I love briskets!

 

[floyd]

I too was overly concerned about the 4 hour "witching hour" for contamination. I cook some large pork butts and briskets, so I was concerned.  When you think about the probe and decide it is of no real use except to make you feel better seeing the temp rise, don't put it in until later! I wait 2 to 3 hours before probing and then I know I will have no contamination problems. The anticipation and wondering what the temp is adds anxiety which adds to the thrill. Sure it does! 

Really, just wait a few hours and then enjoy the temp rise!

 

[Bearcarver]

 
I too was overly concerned about the 4 hour "witching hour" for contamination. I cook some large pork butts and briskets, so I was concerned.  When you think about the probe and decide it is of no real use except to make you feel better seeing the temp rise, don't put it in until later! I wait 2 to 3 hours before probing and then I know I will have no contamination problems. The anticipation and wondering what the temp is adds anxiety which adds to the thrill. Sure it does! 

Really, just wait a few hours and then enjoy the temp rise!

Exactly, but I don't consider that to be "Overly" concerned.

And since none of the big hunks of whole meat could possibly be done in 2 or 3 hours, I see no reason to not wait to put the sterilized probe in.

Bear

 

[foamheart]

But we all still have to live on the safe side here. would you not hate for someone to sicken their family because of what you say? Ere to the side of safety.

I said in the beginning that I thought it good   BUT........................................ Its your cook, no one but you has the final say.

If you will clean off slimy, clotted, funky colored brined bacon and smoke and eat it, a probe insertion really doesn't scare me. LOL

I

 

[jp61]

I wonder if anyone ever measured the temperature of the probe itself, the portion inserted into the meat, at the 4hr mark. The probe is made from SS and a good portion of it is sitting outside of the meat in the ambient 225°+ temperature conducting heat. Depending on difference between the internal temperature of the meat, its ambient temperature, rate of heat transfer in the probe and whatever else variable that may apply, could it be possible that the entire probe and the immediate surrounding meat would reach 140° in 4hrs?  

Edit: never mind! I didn't think it all the way through. The answer is absolutely NOT possible. If this could happen the thermometer would be registering a false IT reading.