Brining history?

[Hapagrrrl]

I'm still a newbie with smoking (Little Chief smoker), but have been noticing that brining recipes really have a big impact on the overall flavor of my fish and turkey after smoking. I was wondering if there are regional differences in the US with regards to amounts of sugar, salt, soy sauce etc. Similar to how different regions do BBQ (KC--sweet tomatoey vs. Texas--dry spicy rub). I think I prefer something really plain, like a few Alaskan recipes I saw (the ones without soy sauce), but would like to try other styles as well.

 

[Marknmd]

I think that's one of the reasons the dry brine became so popular - because it's "plain." And simple to do. My understanding is Chef Judy Rodgers was the first to introduce the dry brine roughly 20 years ago, while she was part owner and chef of Zuni Cafe in San Francisco. The technique was in her cookbook released about that time. It took a long time for folks to catch on. But it eventually did and now it's popular all over.

Here is a chicken recipe from that cookbook using the dry brine technique (don't miss the note at the bottom):

Zuni Café Chicken

This recipe was featured in the New Your Times about Chef Judy Rodgers (Refined Simplicity). It is a world-renown chicken recipe served in her restaurant in San Francisco. It's worth trying, to take Whitaker Farms chicken to an impossible level. Enjoy

whitakerfarmstn.com

 

[Hapagrrrl]

I think that's one of the reasons the dry brine became so popular - because it's "plain." And simple to do. My understanding is Chef Judy Rodgers was the first to introduce the dry brine roughly 20 years ago, while she was part owner and chef of Zuni Cafe in San Francisco. The technique was in her cookbook released about that time. It took a long time for folks to catch on. But it eventually did and now it's popular all over.

Here is a chicken recipe from that cookbook using the dry brine technique (don't miss the note at the bottom):

Zuni Café Chicken

This recipe was featured in the New Your Times about Chef Judy Rodgers (Refined Simplicity). It is a world-renown chicken recipe served in her restaurant in San Francisco. It's worth trying, to take Whitaker Farms chicken to an impossible level. Enjoy

whitakerfarmstn.com

I didn't realize it was such a modern technique. Thanks for your response

 

[gmc2003]

I guess it depends on how you define brining. Salting meat has been going on way longer than 20 years ago. It's more like a few centuries ago.

 

[Marknmd]

I guess it depends on how you define brining. Salting meat has been going on way longer than 20 years ago. It's more like a few centuries ago.

?

I said "dry brine." I read this on the AR site. Is Meathead incorrect? Do you have a link or a reference? Thanks

 

[SmokinEdge]

?

I said "dry brine." I read this on the AR site. Is Meathead incorrect? Do you have a link or a reference? Thanks

Salting or salt brining meats goes back a few millennia brining in liquid like wise. Good grief, with no refrigeration this was the only preservation method for meat.

As to the OP, I’m not a water brine guy, but when I do I use thirdeye process and recipes. His are very good and work perfectly For fish and poultry. Maybe he will chime in.

 

[DougE]

Country ham has been made in these parts with nothing more than salt. No water, no nothing. The hams are packed in salt and were often put in an empty feed sack and hung in the barn all winter.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ASC/ASC213/ASC213.pdf

 

[Fueling Around]

H Hapagrrrl
Sorry this thread went out of context.
Yes there are regional variances in smoked meat.
I started with a Big Chief.
PNW is a an Alder smoke area. Don't recall the flavor but it was pretty neutral.
Yes Kansas City is sweet. Memphis less so. Carolina is the least sweet, but a bit tang from vinegar.

 

[TripleLindy]

For me personally, the regional variances are starting to blur because we all now have access to different techniques from all over the world. But there are definitely differences based on the origins of each.

I dry brine beef and pork. I do the same with poultry if I don’t have time, but my favorite poultry brine is a buttermilk brine that I found in Salt Fat Acid Head by Samin Nosrat. Those buttermilk enzymes seem to do something with tenderness and juiciness that I haven’t found with salt alone. I’ve only dry brined fish occasionally. I worry about making it mushy.
The great thing about cooking is experimentation. Learn from others, but ultimately make it your own!

 

[zwiller]

Purists cringe but brining is total game changer must do IMO. I recall the story of brining is actually intertwined with the first smoked food. Some caveman was hungry enough that he cooked an animal washed up on the beach of an ocean in saltwater. The rest is history.

 

[thirdeye]

Hi @ H Hapagrrrl and welcome aboard. I started with a Little Chief too! About 45+years ago , then got a Big Chief. They now are mostly used for smoking fish and flavor smoking things like ham shanks and such. But they are cool units, and even though you will likely move into other smokers, a Chief box smoker is something to have in your arsenal.

I think there are regional, personal, and meat specific differences in flavor brining with liquids. Salt (dry) brining is somewhat basic unless you choose to add some aromatics. For example, a brine for a turkey might have different ingredients than a brine for pork chops. And a brine in the southern states might have hot sauce, jalapenos and maybe beer. Brining can enter some gray areas because salt and water diffuse easily into meats, but things with larger molecules can't penetrate very far.... so some brines will act like a marinade at times. Now, if you inject some of your brine (then cover your meat in brine), you are giving them a head start and will get all the flavors into the meat.

I guess it depends on how you define brining. Salting meat has been going on way longer than 20 years ago. It's more like a few centuries ago.

Salting or salt brining meats goes back a few millennia brining in liquid like wise. Good grief, with no refrigeration this was the only preservation method for meat.

Salting for preservation is totally different in my eye than salt brining (aka dry brining) and salt curing (like curing bacon using the salt box method) My Granny had a salt brining method she called "Koshering" and it was used on small game like rabbits, squirrels, game birds, older chickens and tougher beef and big game cuts. She would rinse and pat the meat dry, then add Kosher salt for a few hours.

I dry brine beef and pork. I do the same with poultry if I don’t have time, but my favorite poultry brine is a buttermilk brine that I found in Salt Fat Acid Head by Samin Nosrat. Those buttermilk enzymes seem to do something with tenderness and juiciness that I haven’t found with salt alone. I’ve only dry brined fish occasionally. I worry about making it mushy.

Bingo. The same granny I mentioned above used a combination of a salt water bath followed by a buttermilk brine on chicken, rabbits, and any game birds that might have some shotgun damage. Also on certain wild game, javelina or pronghorn antelope. The salt water bath helped remove some of the blood. And the buttermilk brine would be for tenderness/juiciness and to calm down any meat with a gamey flavor.

I dry brine my trout, salmon and steelhead.... but the term is deceiving because the brine starts off dry, but soon turns into a syrup. The fish stays firm when smoked.

 

[thirdeye]

Purists cringe but brining is total game changer must do IMO. I recall the story of brining is actually intertwined with the first smoked food. Some caveman was hungry enough that he cooked an animal washed up on the beach of an ocean in saltwater. The rest is history.

Totally agree with 'caveman' cooking theories.

 

[Hapagrrrl]

Hi @ H Hapagrrrl and welcome aboard. I started with a Little Chief too! About 45+years ago , then got a Big Chief. They now are mostly used for smoking fish and flavor smoking things like ham shanks and such. But they are cool units, and even though you will likely move into other smokers, a Chief box smoker is something to have in your arsenal.

I think there are regional, personal, and meat specific differences in flavor brining with liquids. Salt (dry) brining is somewhat basic unless you choose to add some aromatics. For example, a brine for a turkey might have different ingredients than a brine for pork chops. And a brine in the southern states might have hot sauce, jalapenos and maybe beer. Brining can enter some gray areas because salt and water diffuse easily into meats, but things with larger molecules can't penetrate very far.... so some brines will act like a marinade at times. Now, if you inject some of your brine (then cover your meat in brine), you are giving them a head start and will get all the flavors into the meat.




Salting for preservation is totally different in my eye than salt brining (aka dry brining) and salt curing (like curing bacon using the salt box method) My Granny had a salt brining method she called "Koshering" and it was used on small game like rabbits, squirrels, game birds, older chickens and tougher beef and big game cuts. She would rinse and pat the meat dry, then add Kosher salt for a few hours.



Bingo. The same granny I mentioned above used a combination of a salt water bath followed by a buttermilk brine on chicken, rabbits, and any game birds that might have some shotgun damage. Also on certain wild game, javelina or pronghorn antelope. The salt water bath helped remove some of the blood. And the buttermilk brine would be for tenderness/juiciness and to calm down any meat with a gamey flavor.

I dry brine my trout, salmon and steelhead.... but the term is deceiving because the brine starts off dry, but soon turns into a syrup. The fish stays firm when smoked.

Wow! thank you third eye. You gave a lot of good information for me to explore as I try to develop my own signature taste. Glad to see that the chief box smokers still have a role in smoking for even the master smokers. I actually love using mine, but mostly see threads with the larger, more powerful smokers posted.

 

[JC in GB]

Nothing wrong with the Big Chief. That was my first smoker and I won a BBQ competition with it and a Webber grill. I know there are a number of techniques and methods for brining and as long as you keep safety in mind, they all work well enough.

When doing any brining, I determine how salty/sweet I want the end product and then calculate the brine strength from there. Once I have my target percentage of salt/sugar, I then calculate the brine to that strength. I normally use 10% f the meat weight in water for the brine. This can be used as a soaking brine, injected, or both.

I don't do a whole lot of brining so I like using a simple approach and this works quite well for making bacon, ham, beef jerky, etc... It also saves on space as I can brine pork belly in a vacuum bag in the fridge.

Hope you find the technique that gives you the results your are seeking.

JC

 

[Hapagrrrl]

Hi JC,
thats pretty incredible that you won with a big chief and weber (both of which I have now). I'm feeling a lot more confident. I'm going to try using your measurements (brine and water) with my next smoke. Thanks for the advice!

 

[JC in GB]

Hi JC,
thats pretty incredible that you won with a big chief and weber (both of which I have now). I'm feeling a lot more confident. I'm going to try using your measurements (brine and water) with my next smoke. Thanks for the advice!

Just one more piece of advice. Using metric measurements makes calculating brine a snap.

Here is a treatise I came up with for making my own bacon.

This can be used for simple brining as well, just omit the Cure #1.

I wish you a successful cook.

JC

 

[thirdeye]

Wow! thank you third eye. You gave a lot of good information for me to explore as I try to develop my own signature taste. Glad to see that the chief box smokers still have a role in smoking for even the master smokers. I actually love using mine, but mostly see threads with the larger, more powerful smokers posted.

You're welcome. Just think of the Chief style of smoker as a 'flavor smoker' rather than a 'cooking smoker' and you will be good to go. Like I said they are good for fish, but at hour 3 I'll sometimes move fillets into a 180° oven to get up to finish temp. Same with sausage that has Cure #1 added. Putting a second smoke on some hocks or shanks for a couple of hour works really good before adding them to beans. Jerked meats can be fully cooked in a chief, and on a few occasions (like outside temps in the 90°s and the Chief in direct sunlight on a concrete patio) I've managed to hang a rack of ribs. But you cant smoke a butt or brisket.