2nd brisket feedback plz

[glizzygob]

So this was my second attempt at smoking a brisket. I have a traeger and did 8hrs @205 and 8hrs 275 and a 2 hour rest. Didnt mess with it at all but want to try some new things for my next brisket. What are your thoughts on spritzing with apple cider and also using wagyu beef tallow when you wrap it.

Attaching some pics, let me know your feedback, thanks

 

[SmokinEdge]

Welcome from Colorado.

Tell me what you didn’t like about your two cooks on brisket, so we can cut to the chase.

 

[glizzygob]

Welcome from Colorado.

Tell me what you didn’t like about your two cooks on brisket, so we can cut to the chase.

both cooks encountered stalls at 145-150 and had to wrap them where as I would have liked to wrap at 165 but the stalls would last 2-3 hours. First brisket I did at 225 before wrapping and second I did at 205. Both of them were put on the smoker straight from the fridge so maybe I should let them get closer to room temp before slapping them on? Thats the only thing I can think of thats causing the stall

 

[SecondHandSmoker]

Temps between 145°-150° are pretty typical stall temps for brisket, so starting meat out at room temp won't have much if any effect on the stall temps other than hitting the stall sooner than later.
Besides, you would need to let the brisket sit out for a couple of hours or longer before it comes up to room temp.
What is room temp anyway? For some, room temp could be 70° while for others it could be 80°.
Keep in mind that spritzing cools the surface of the meat which will delay the meat from reaching the stall temp.
Your brisket in the pics looks great, so what results are you trying to achieve?
Better bark formation?
If that is the case, then use the SMF search function to check out the hot and fast brisket method or don't wrap the brisket at all and just wait out the stall.
Also, do not go by time or internal temp.
Go by probe tender.

 

[thirdeye]

I have a traeger and did 8hrs @205 and 8hrs 275 and a 2 hour rest

I'm all in for low-n-slow, but 205° is really hard to maintain, and since a brisket will tender up around 205°.... it will take a long time to get there. 250° is an easier target pit temp to work with. And 275° is not out of the question.

What are your thoughts on spritzing with apple cider and also using wagyu beef tallow when you wrap it.

Well, I come from a family of basters. For me, apple cider is better than apple juice. Water works pretty good when misted on. Have you ever tried dill pickle juice, cut with some water and Wooster?

Wagyu tallow sounds like a major "flavor" bump, and it's trendy. I've not tried that yet.

Both of them were put on the smoker straight from the fridge so maybe I should let them get closer to room temp before slapping them on?

The colder the meat means the longer time in the 'smoke ring' zone. Also, room temp meats are a playground for bacteria. So, check into that.

Watch the slicing direction. Your flat is sliced with the grain. And the point is against the grain. Be mindful of each muscle because they need a direction change when you carve it.

 

[SmokinEdge]

both cooks encountered stalls at 145-150 and had to wrap them where as I would have liked to wrap at 165 but the stalls would last 2-3 hours. First brisket I did at 225 before wrapping and second I did at 205. Both of them were put on the smoker straight from the fridge so maybe I should let them get closer to room temp before slapping them on? Thats the only thing I can think of thats causing the stall

Where do folks come up with this magic 225F cook temp?

I will tell you simply to raise that pit temp to 250-275F there is no magic at 225F.

 

[glizzygob]

Where do folks come up with this magic 225F cook temp?

I will tell you simply to raise that pit temp to 250-275F there is no magic at 225F.

250-275 is for offsets I believe, pellet smokers are a bit different. Im still a rookie tho so could be wrong

 

[bauchjw]

I agree with everyone that said stay at 250 to 275 for the cook. I don’t spritz, but definitely listen to whatever thirdeye tells me. I have started wrapping in butcher paper with Wagyu tallow and in my opinion it gives a great additional burst of flavor!

I’d also add that one of my smokers is a Traeger too and getting an AMAZN pellet tube (~20 bucks on amazon) really helps get more smoke flavor snd even smoke rings.

Keep it up! Your doing awesome work!!!

 

[bigfurmn]

Welcome from Minnesota. I have a Pit Boss but I have never wrapped and being a pellet grill it has the fan to move air so the stall doesn’t seem to last long. I have never had a brisket go that long myself, even the 18lber.
Edit: what are you using to check chamber temps?

 

[SmokinEdge]

250-275 is for offsets I believe, pellet smokers are a bit different. Im still a rookie tho so could be wrong

Temp is Temp. The meat doesn’t know where the heat comes from. Offset, kettle, pellet grill or your kitchen oven. The heat is what you need to cook, smoke is a nice addition, but not necessary for a quality cook. It’s all about the heat. That’s what cooks the meat.

 

[schlotz]

Looks like thirdeye has you sorted. Definitely agree with running at a higher temp. FYI, I consistently smoke full packers @ 275º with repeatable results.

 

[thirdeye]

Where do folks come up with this magic 225F cook temp?

I will tell you simply to raise that pit temp to 250-275F there is no magic at 225F.

Well.... off the top of my head, a 225°F pit temp is magic for at least two things: fatties and prime rib.

Oddly enough, one answer to your question relates to the boiling temperature of water. But we need to take a ride on the 'way back' machine to get the whole story.... Before modern day rubs, or injections, and way before meat was engineered.... the old barbecue men cooked low-n-slow, and taught low-n-slow methods. The methods were handed down from generation to generation. Open pit barbecue was the predecessor to the evolution of modern day cookers, and nearly every barbecue man basted (mopped) the meat.

Smoky Hale, (The Great American Barbecue & Grilling Manual) is one of the self proclaimed 'Old Basters' in the world of barbecue, and a great story teller, cooked most things at low pit temps. He defined barbecue this way:
Barbecue
Meat cooked in the dry heat of wood coals at temperatures around the boiling point of water (212*F at sea level). An essential distinction from other forms of cooking is the temperature at which it is cooked. The lower temperature allows the meat to become tender while preserving its natural juices and the exterior does not dry out before the center becomes done. The long cooking period allows for myriad savory seasonings and provides ample opportunity for pleasurable activities. The consummate barbecuer excels in the latter as much as the former.

The problem with this philosophy is that in the 20's, 30's, 40's and so on..... thermometers were rare. Heck, I didn't have a pit with a proper thermometer or a fast read thermometer until maybe 25 years ago. Anyways, the old school barbecuists cooked by sight, by listening to the meats sizzle and by feel. Barbecue is very hands on, and that is a tradition that should be carried forward.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Well.... off the top of my head, a 225°F pit temp is magic for at least two things: fatties and prime rib.

Oddly enough, one answer to your question relates to the boiling temperature of water. But we need to take a ride on the 'way back' machine to get the whole story.... Before modern day rubs, or injections, and way before meat was engineered.... the old barbecue men cooked low-n-slow, and taught low-n-slow methods. The methods were handed down from generation to generation. Open pit barbecue was the predecessor to the evolution of modern day cookers, and nearly every barbecue man basted (mopped) the meat.

Smoky Hale, (The Great American Barbecue & Grilling Manual) is one of the self proclaimed 'Old Basters' in the world of barbecue, and a great story teller, cooked most things at low pit temps. He defined barbecue this way:
Barbecue
Meat cooked in the dry heat of wood coals at temperatures around the boiling point of water (212*F at sea level). An essential distinction from other forms of cooking is the temperature at which it is cooked. The lower temperature allows the meat to become tender while preserving its natural juices and the exterior does not dry out before the center becomes done. The long cooking period allows for myriad savory seasonings and provides ample opportunity for pleasurable activities. The consummate barbecuer excels in the latter as much as the former.

The problem with this philosophy is that in the 20's, 30's, 40's and so on..... thermometers were rare. Heck, I didn't have a pit with a proper thermometer or a fast read thermometer until maybe 25 years ago. Anyways, the old school barbecuists cooked by sight, by listening to the meats sizzle and by feel. Barbecue is very hands on, and that is a tradition that should be carried forward.

That’s a good explanation, at least for the way back times. That said, the problem with 225* to me really centers around the meat IT lag behind pit temp. This lag is generally around -15* to pit temp but can be as much as -20* so at some point in the cook, way into the cook, the meat can reach a maximum of 205-210* IT. That’s typically where we need to be on IT, but that’s also the maximum meat temp with a 225* pit. It will be very difficult to over cook the meat but it’s also a long wait to finish. We also have to consider the pit temp fluctuations. Most pits that I’ve been around don’t particularly like running 225* they seem much more steady in the 250-275* range. Now if the fire is managed to maintain 225* then they seem to fluctuate lower from say 200-225*, this makes the meat IT lag more in the 190-205* range. In many cases for the back yard bbq enthusiasts this means a dry finished product because meat IT never got high enough. It couldn’t, this can be very frustrating for folks and without expert guidance they never truly achieve bbq glory. That’s why I always encourage the 250-275* pit temp for most any who ask it is a much better path to success. It is completely possible to successfully cook delicious meats at 225* but there needs to be a lot of bbq wisdom between those ears a lot of wisdom under that hat. These things take time and a lot of persistence through the fails. That’s just my opinion.

 

[thirdeye]

That’s a good explanation, at least for the way back times. That said, the problem with 225* to me really centers around the meat IT lag behind pit temp.

I totally agree. Also, 250° and above gives you a safety factor in the event the fire goes out.

 

[sandyut]

I will tell you simply to raise that pit temp to 250-275F there is no magic at 225F.

My thoughts exactly. I like ro run mine for an hour or two and 180 which is the extreme smoke setting on my rec Teq. then 275 till done. No wrap no spritz. Just cook till probe tender, rest, eat and keep drinkin.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Another excellent point!

Also, 250° and above gives you a safety factor in the event the fire goes out.

 

[SmokinEdge]

My thoughts exactly. I like ro run mine for an hour or two and 180 which is the extreme smoke setting on my rec Teq. then 275 till done. No wrap no spritz. Just cook till probe tender, rest, eat and keep drinkin.

I agree with this method. I’m not even opposed to finishing at 300 if I need to. There is a balance that needs to be struck with the time in smoke for a nice deeper flavor and getting to probe tender. I often cook just as you described.

 

[Hijack73]

Temp is temp but my pellet pit @ 250-275 burns a big nasty round spot into my briskets right where it sits over the flame pot. Like what OP has here, but worse. I don't have an especially nice pellet pit - but many of the lower end guys like me have this problem. I came across a warped cast iron griddle (about 10x10) that I'm going to try to rig up as a heat diffuser to hopefully negate some of that issue. My old stick burner that provided even heat to all of the grate area - I wouldn't have had a problem with running hot (I always ran butts at 250-275). It's not the method, as hundreds of folks use hot and fast - it's my machine.

 

[schlotz]

Yeah that can be a problem. Two options come to mind. Run with the fat cap down and/or use an alum pan, place a rack on top of it and the brisket on the rack. Add some water or whatever to the pan.

 

[SmokinEdge]

When I had a GMG with the center pot, I built a simple elevated grill surface, this made a huge difference with brisket and butts. That and I would simply start pulling meat at about 5 hrs into the cook, into a foil pan covered with foil and finished in the oven. Was a lot better than trying to stay in the cooker the whole time.