What makes the brisket flat dry?

[indygreg]

I have smoked a few briskets with decent results but i seem to have a dry flat. i assumed it got over cooked and rendered out too much fat but i am reading people say just the opposite.

I am currently cooking at 14lb srf wagyu packer. it seems pretty well marbled. My process on my last two smokes on a traeger:
- 1.5 hours at 225 w supersmoke
- 1.5 hours at 250
- raise to 260 and spritz the thin parts and edges every hour for 3 more hours
- when it seems to be entering the stall (temp around 155-160 and feels a bit more wiggly) i raise to 280 for an hour or so
- When it seems to be exiting the stall i wrap in butcher paper for 4 more hours then into a cambro to rest.

the first smoke had an amazing point end (both point and flat) and a dry flat end. The Next smoke i pulled it a little earlier and held it longer in the heated cambro in the paper. the cambro holds at 150ish so my thought was that it was kind of like sous vide and would get it fully cooked without drying out the flat end. but the whole brisket was not as tender so i assume it was under cooked yet the flat end was still dry.

so maybe i am just not cooking it enough? will that cause the flat to be dry?

appreciate any insight.

greg

Edited to clarify how i am determining the last two phases

 

[Hockeydudde]

I'm still struggling with the same thing on beef.
I'm pretty sure the answer will come back from others that it's under cooked. But I've had flats that were dry and unsliceable because they just shredded. seem to go straight from tough to over cooked.
Curious to see the replies.

 

[LoydB]

No answers, but in to see what others have to say. Even after 40 years I'm still not 100% consistent with my briskets.

 

[gmc2003]

I've never smoked a wagyu brisket or wagyu anything for that matter. However it looks like your relying on time intervals. I would say that's your first mistake. Time will get you in the ballpark for certain stages of the cook. Go by tenderness and past knowledge. Being that you said it was dry. My gut tells me it was undercooked. If it started crumbling when you sliced it then you'd be a tad overcooked.

Chris

 

[indygreg]

sorry i should have been more clear. i am not going by time. i am learning to feel it and also using temps. i assume the stall starts around 155-160. that is when i bump the heat to push through the stall. i wrap it when i see temps start to move but also hold the brisket around the middle with a towel to see if it is getting less stiff in the middle. i really only use time for the first 3 hour, 225 degree interval since the traeger doesnt make a lot of smoke above 225.

once it is in the paper it gets harder for me since i can't really feel it very well. i can poke holes in it but i suspect this is the step i could improve.

 

[mneeley490]

indygreg, I've made dozens of briskets. Some were moist, some were dry. (When that happens, I blame the cow.) But by far the best method I've done, and it has consistently turned out the juiciest meat, is by aging them 60 days in an Umai bag. I know it sounds counter-intuitive to dry meat in order to get more juices, but somehow it really works. You can't believe the amount of moisture inside when you slice it. This was my 2nd one:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/2nd-60-day-dry-aged-brisket.301082/

The first one I made, I used the dry-aging wrap product from Sausagemaker. It worked, but I don't recommend it for this purpose, as it was a real pain to remove. Umai is much easier.
Here's a pic from the 1st one, though:

 

[gmc2003]

My basic process(which I alter from time to time depending on variables)

Brisket rubbed down and in the fridge.

Light the coals to my smoker and bring it up to temp around 260*

Put the brisket on the grate and let her ride until the stall. Usually in the 160* range
If time is a concern I'll put it in an aluminum pan on a small grate. Add some liquid and veggies to the pan. Cover with aluminum foil and back on the smoker. Veggies are optional, but help with the dipping sauce. I use the small grate to keep the brisket out of the juice.

Pull the brisket from the pan around 180*, put it back on the grate.

Once the brisket hits 195*. Probe the brisket. Your looking for very little resistance,

Once done. Let it cool to about 170*, cover and hold the brisket for about an hour or longer.

If going longer then put it in a cooler wrapped in old towels or in the oven.

Others will do it differently but this works for me and my setup.

Chris

 

[TripleLindy]

I was about to say the same thing as gmc2003 regarding temp and feel vs. time, but you’ve cleared that up. I’m no expert, but I like to keep temp low and steady throughout a brisket cook - no higher than 250°. And I wrap once the stall hits, not after temp starts to climb again. For me, that’s the whole point of the wrap - to power through the stall. While an undercooked brisket would be tough, I wouldn’t think it would be dry, so I’d lean towards it being overcooked. Start probing the meat around 190° and wait for that peanut butter feel. I don’t think I’ve ever had a brisket go over 205°.

 

[Hockeydudde]

My basic process(which I alter from time to time depending on variables)

Brisket rubbed down and in the fridge.

Light the coals to my smoker and bring it up to temp around 260*

Put the brisket on the grate and let her ride until the stall. Usually in the 160* range
If time is a concern I'll put it in an aluminum pan on a small grate. Add some liquid and veggies to the pan. Cover with aluminum foil and back on the smoker. Veggies are optional, but help with the dipping sauce. I use the small grate to keep the brisket out of the juice.

Pull the brisket from the pan around 180*, put it back on the grate.

Once the brisket hits 195*. Probe the brisket. Your looking for very little resistance,

Once done. Let it cool to about 170*, cover and hold the brisket for about an hour or longer.

If going longer then put it in a cooler wrapped in old towels or in the oven.

Others will do it differently but this works for me and my setup.

Chris

This is interesting. So you wrap and then unwrap for the finish effectively.
I'm going to try this. Like indygreg said, once I wrap, I struggle to feel the brisket through the wrap, I have long felt complicated my struggle.

 

[gmc2003]

A couple of things on that. If you have a probe that you leave in the meat during the cook. The rise in temp will tell you when the stall is over. I only use an insta read so I'll either remove the aluminum foil cover and test the meat, or if I'm lazy. Then I'll just poke a couple of holes in the foil. I like to put the brisket back on the grate to help reset the bark if it started to soften while underwrap.

Chris

 

[indygreg]

So I just wrapped it. Temps went up 5 degrees in half hour to 170ish so I assume I am getting through the stall. I am going to keep it in the paper longer this time. My last brisket was an experiment where I pulled it a little earlier to hold it overnight in the cambro. I am fortunate to have this heated cambro from a previous project and I have found that holding butts in it for 12-18 hours seemed to only make them better so I wondered if I could get good results by holding the brisket in the paper overnight and effectively sous vide cooking it at 150 but the flat was even drier so this time I am going to try smoking it longer in the paper.

here is what it looked like when I wrapped it. Strangely the thicker part of the flat end was hotter than the thinner part.

 

[gmc2003]

Looking good. I've never held a brisket for more than a couple of hours, but a lot of folks here do. If your brisket is probe tender/finished and your going to hold it for an extended period of time. Then make sure you let the brisket cool to that temp so you don't overcook it. I will say overcooked brisket is better than undercooked.

Enjoy

Chris

 

[BrianGSDTexoma]

To me those hold times are what makes it. I do low smoke for couple hours than 225. Once about 160 I put on a rack inside a roasting pan with about a cup of hot water and wrap up with foil. I raise to 250. Most my briskets have to get to 204 before probing tender. I do not remove foil to check with skewer. I than do a 4 hour rest. I never look inside just wait 4 hours. Both point and flat are always very tender. I also inject with Prime Brisket Injection the night before.

 

[indygreg]

Looking good. I've never held a brisket for more than a couple of hours, but a lot of folks here do. If your brisket is probe tender/finished and your going to hold it for an extended period of time. Then make sure you let the brisket cool to that temp so you don't overcook it. I will say overcooked brisket is better than undercooked.

Enjoy

Chris

Great tip. Thanks.

 

[HalfSmoked]

I agree with gmc only I do mine at 225 for the complete cook and don't wrap.

Warren

 

[culpepersmoke]

When I trim my brisket, I’ll save some fat and add that to a aluminum tray and set that in the smoker with the brisket. When it’s time to wrap, I’ll pour some of that tallow over the flat to help keep it moist. If I’m not wrapping I’ll still use that tallow as my basting liquid.

 

[indygreg]

I have it in the cambro for lunch today. i think i may have overcooked it. in the past i have had it in the paper for 4 hour or so but when i checked it at 3 hours it was reading as high as 210. i opened the paper and probed it and it was pretty tender so we will see.
a few things i am thinking. these last 3 briskets i have been trying the approach that aaron franklin uses (i got a masterclass subscription a couple years ago). He runs higher temps (255-280) than i had used in the past and wraps in paper where i used to a use a foil pan. i have had his brisket in austin and it was pretty amazing and this approach has been really good for getting a moist brisket. his logic is you don't want it sitting on the smoker too long sweating out off it's moisture during the stall and i think the higher temps give a good bark. i think his approach is pretty good except that i don't know when to pull it. he demonstrates some voodoo method where he uses the force to hold the brisket and feel when it is done. probably works great if you cook 100+ briskets a day like he does but it would take me 40 years to develop that skill.

so i am thinking some variation of what gmc is doing where i can more easily probe it to know when to pull it. this idea of unwrapping it for the end of the smoke is worth a shot. i also want to try the idea of pouring some tallow over the flat as culpeppersmoke suggests. i have seen a few people say that really works.

question - for people that don't wrap the brisket, do you just hold temps steady through the stall and beyond? it seems like this would dry it out.

 

[GonnaSmoke]

Here's a great way to cook just the flat by SmokinAl . I've done it and it works well...

BRISKET FLAT, MY WAY

It's no secret that a lot of folks have a problem smoking a small well trimmed brisket flat. I to had my struggles for a while, but a couple of years ago I found this method and have been using it ever since. So I would like to share my method with all of you. If you already are successful...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[TripleLindy]

question - for people that don't wrap the brisket, do you just hold temps steady through the stall and beyond? it seems like this would dry it out.

Yes, I keep temp steady throughout the entire cook, wrapped or not. Since you’ve had issues with a dry flat, I wouldn’t skip the wrap. Wrapping gives you a little braise action - kinda like running a marathon in a raincoat. The “sweat” doesn’t have the cooling effect so the temp keeps climbing instead of stalling and since the moisture isn’t evaporating, it acts as a braise, which will help with moisture retention. It can definitely have a softening effect on your bark, though. You can always hit the brisket with some direct heat at the end, just like a reverse sear steak if you’re really concerned about the bark.

Higher temps achieve a couple of things: a cleaner burning fire resulting in better taste (IMHO) and a bit of a faster cook. But you have to strike the right balance. Brisket can’t be rushed because there’s lots of connective tissue that has to melt over time. Cook it too fast and you’re left with a tough, stringy piece of meat. 275° is about my max with 250° being ideal for me.

Personally, I wouldn’t mess around with altering temps during the cook, at least not until I had had some success first and then wanted to experiment. It just introduces too many variables when you’re trying to correct a problem.

Enjoy the process!

 

[boykjo]

I'll throw in 2 cents..... 1. With brisket flat you shouldnt push through a stall by raising temp. Finish the brisket at the temperature you started with and be patient. 2. Start probing with a tooth pick when nearing 190 degrees IT. Probe at 5 degree intervals in different areas until the tooth pick slides in with little resistance and then rest for at least an hour. You and the brisket