Trying to add cold smoke to my salmon smoker, worried about tar

[wrybread]

I'm trying to make a cold smoke generator for my salmon smoker and getting a ton of tar in the combustion chamber (an old fondue pot), and I'm worried that it's going to affect the taste of the fish.

Here's my smoker:

It's an old Masterbuilt with the heating element removed since it wouldn't even produce smoke until it got to about 180 degrees fareighnheight. So now I have the heating element from a Big Chief smoker (about 800 watts) regulated by that little box on top to keep the temp between 140 and 150. I generate the smoke externally using the propane burner on the right of the cabinet.

It works great but I have to really watch the pan to make sure it doesn't flame up. It means sitting next to the thing and watching it like a hawk for hours and hours.

So today I made this cold smoke generator:

It's a riff on a design I found online, air gets pushed through that T joint which sucks up smoke from the combustion chamber below (the fondue pot). There's some holes on the bottom of the fondue pot where I light the wood chips. I'm using an old CPAP machine to push the air.

It works beautifully, but it leaves a *ton* of tar inside the combustion chamber. This is after just a couple of hours:

I stopped the smoking since I don't want to risk ruining the fish.

Any thoughts on whether that tar imparts a flavor?

Any idea how to stop it from forming or reaching the smoker?

I should say, I'm buring apple chips cut pretty finely (not the big chips). I should also say I'm not positive it's reaching the smoker, it just scared me enough that I stopped smoking for now.

These salmon are way too hard to catch to risk ruining the fish. We've been catching some great ones here in Northern California this year.

Thanks for any help!

 

[cmayna]

Nice Chinooky. Is that pic taken along the Marin coastline? When you say cold smoking, is this without any heat from the element, etc?

 

[chef jimmyj]

The greater the distance the smoke generator is from the MES, the more the Creosote, aka Tar, will condense out of the smoke before reaching the Salmon....JJ

 

[Fueling Around]

Use a smoke tube or tray filled with wood pellets.

 

[wrybread]

Nice Chinooky. Is that pic taken along the Marin coastline? When you say cold smoking, is this without any heat from the element, etc?

Yup, off Tomales Point. Been a great year for big salmon. That one is our best so far, was 35 pounds.

As far as smoking temps, I like to keep it around 140 degrees fareignheight, which I do using an electric heating element connected to one of these:


Works really well for that purpose. I have it set to turn on below 130 degrees and turn off at 140.

The greater the distance the smoke generator is from the MES, the more the Creosote, aka Tar, will condense out of the smoke before reaching the Salmon....JJ

So make the tube longer so the tar doesn't reach the smoker? I'll give that a try, but currently I'm having a problem making the exit tube longer than even just a few inches. When it's longer than that my smoke generator's venturi effect stops working and instead of sucking the air out of the smoke chamber the air starts travelling down to the smoke chamber. I wonder if using bigger diameter tubing would improve that. I'm using 1/2" pipe currently. It's this design, except instead of a paint can I'm using a stainless pot from a thriftshop fondue set, and instead of an air compressor I'm using an old CPAP machine.



And is the "MES" the smoker?

Use a smoke tube or tray filled with wood pellets.

Is a smoke tube something like this?


Do you have one you can recommend?

And any details on "a tray filled with wood pellets"? Is that literally just some wood pellets on a tray lit on fire?

That makes me think I'm overthinking things with this smoke generator...

 

[DRKsmoking]

Welcome from Nova Scotia

Nice fish, Just wondering ,could your wood chips be too green

Watching for an answer from others with more time in smoking

David

 

[smokerjim]

Yup, off Tomales Point. Been a great year for big salmon. That one is our best so far, was 35 pounds.

As far as smoking temps, I like to keep it around 140 degrees fareignheight, which I do using an electric heating element connected to one of these:


Works really well for that purpose. I have it set to turn on below 130 degrees and turn off at 140.



So make the tube longer so the tar doesn't reach the smoker? I'll give that a try, but currently I'm having a problem making the exit tube longer than even just a few inches. When it's longer than that my smoke generator's venturi effect stops working and instead of sucking the air out of the smoke chamber the air starts travelling down to the smoke chamber. I wonder if using bigger diameter tubing would improve that. I'm using 1/2" pipe currently. It's this design, except instead of a paint can I'm using a stainless pot from a thriftshop fondue set.



And is the "MES" the smoker?



Is a smoke tube something like this?


Do you have one you can recommend?

And any details on "a tray filled with wood pellets"? Is that literally just some wood pellets on a tray lit on fire?

That makes me think I'm overthinking things with this smoke generator...

This is what a lot of use with our mes, the mailbox with a smoke tray or tube.

 

[gmc2003]

For cold smoking l'd suggest looking into the a-maze-n pellet tray. The tube will work but you can burn sawdust in the tray for an even cleaner smoke.

Chris

 

[chef jimmyj]

Cant help on the generator you built. The AMNPS TRAY is below...Search Mailbox Mod. The tray goes in the mailbox, the 3, 6, 9 feet of Dryer Vent Hose to bring the Smoke to the MES...JJ

 

[cmayna]

Above is my highly modified MES40. Typically I use the pellet tray in the mailbox.

My definition of cold smoke is with no heat from the element. Just ambient temp. I do this when cold smoking cheese, lox, etc and more often during the winter months.

When doing fish in the 125-145* range I refer this as a low temp range, which is what I believe wrybread is referring to.

Yes for the AMNPS tray. You can experiment with different length duct tubing. The lizzo tube would work but I would only fill it half way up. Otherwise too much smoke.

Yes, MES is the Masterbuilt Electric Smoker. Yours is like mine, a generation 1 MES40 series.

BTW, I believe the stock heating element from a big chief is more like 450 watts. If you ever want a bigger (hotter) element, you could consider installing a replacement MES element and still use the external controller.

 

[Fueling Around]

...
Is a smoke tube something like this?


Do you have one you can recommend?

And any details on "a tray filled with wood pellets"? Is that literally just some wood pellets on a tray lit on fire?

That makes me think I'm overthinking things with this smoke generator...

To me a remote "smoke generator" is not needed for your immediate needs to smoke a fish.

All the smoke tubes function the same if octagonal, round or oval.
A tray is similar but just provides the thin blue smoke longer than a tube.
I don't have a cabinet but use a tube in my kettle to cold smoke.

 

[wrybread]

Thanks so much for all the tips! Great to be able to talk to people working on the same issues. Here's my updated smoker:

Using an old BBQ instead of a mailbox. This seems like such an obvious choice for this, I'm wondering what advantage a mailbox has? Something tells me I'm missing something. I haven't tested with an AMNPS or tube yet, I'm hoping there's not some nasty surprise waiting for me.

I really love the dryer tubing, I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it. So much better than my old steup. With my old setup I could get smoke like this but I'd really have to work at it. With this setup it's relatively effortless:

I ordered this pellet tube since the AMNPS is back-ordered. But in the meantime I'm using a stainless silverware organizer for wood chips:



And this deep fryer spoon for pellets since the mesh in the silverware organizer is too big for pellets:



Both have issues. The silverware holder keeps going out unless I use very fine cut chips (but with fine cut chips it works well), and the pellet one keeps catching fire. I'm smoking a batch tomorrow so I'll just use fine cut chips for now. Guessing with the pellet tube the pellets don't flame up?

And is the main advantage of the AMNPS maze burner over the tube that it burns longer? I'll probably pick one up once they're back in stock.

To me a remote "smoke generator" is not needed for your immediate needs to smoke a fish.

Something tells me you're right. I'm testing with the pellets inside the smoker and it's working great. No flame up, consistent smolder, and since I keep my smoker at 125 to 145 no noticeable heat. Hmm.

And any thoughts on pellets versus chips? My neighbor the local salmon smoking guru says he doesn't like using pellets, but said that was just based on one batch that someone else made, so could of course be lots of things that he didn't like.

The lizzo tube would work but I would only fill it half way up. Otherwise too much smoke.

Good tip. Any thoughts on how to tell if there's too much smoke being generated in general?

I'm brining up a small batch of salmon to test with tomorrow, very excited to try the new setup.

 

[wrybread]

And cmayna , is that a raised exhaust pipe on your MES? Does that help a lot with the venturi?

 

[cmayna]

Sorry no, that is actually a pipe connected to my fence, behind the MES. Has nothing to do with the smoker.

wybread, since you are getting the tube, as I mentioned earlier, try filling it half way vertically, then lay it on it's side and shake it vigorously left to right, keeping one of your hands over the tube's opening. Now the tube is filled halfway up while laying on it's side.

If you fill the tube up full, it will be too much smoke, ,,,,,,for me anyways. Lots of practice and you end up with the perfect smoke.

 

[smokerjim]

The tube gives off more smoke then the tray some find the tube gives off to much smoke for their mes , tray gives off a cleaner smoke and will last 9-12 hours. But try the tube maybe you like a little heavier smoke.as mentioned you could try the dust instead of pellets.

 

[Lonzinomaker]

The advantage of the mailbox is the dryer tubing and connections stay in place when loading pellet tray in it.

 

[wrybread]

I just put a batch in the smoker, things are looking good, to my eye at least:

I see people talk about having "nice blue smoke", any other descriptions of what that smoke looks like? With my old smoke source I had to just take whatever smoke I could get (ha) but now I'm interested in dialing it in.

Excited to try that pellet tube once it arrives. I had the wood chips flame up once already. For now I'm using one of those smart thermometer relays to monitor the temperature on the vent tube, and if it goes above 110 degrees it turns on an old radio which blasts static to let me know.

 

[cmayna]

Looks good. How long did you brine? Dry brine?

You got lots of time to experiment once you get the tube. And as previously mentioned, fill the tube halfway. A full tube is way too much smoke for an electric smoker. Also make sure the tube is sitting on an elevated rack to allow air to flow underneath.

BTW,
I know exactly how excited you must be, smoking fish that you caught. My wife and I do so much fishing, which has caused job security for me to smoke our catch. Next 3 weekends we will be out for more Salmon, rock & Ling cod, Albacore, Halibut, etc.

Enjoy your smoke

 

[wrybread]

Looks good. How long did you brine? Dry brine?

My brine is between 6 to 1 and 8 to 1 brown sugar to salt. Sometimes I add a bit of water to the brine before putting it on the fish and stir it up to dissolve the brine, on the theory that the liquid will reach more of the fish than the powder. But I keep getting better results from the dry brine, so this last batch was a dry 6 to 1.

I brine in the fridge until the salmon is pretty firm, which is usually around 15 hours.

I then very lightly rinse or just towel off the brine.

Then I put the strips on the smoker rack to dry for a couple of hours in front of a fan.

Then I start the smoking.

About half way through the smoking, once the skin is easy to remove, I remove the skin and put some spices on the skin side. Lately that's mostly just hot pepper flakes.

During smoking I keep the smoker temp at 140, although I may go down to 130 on this next batch and bring it up to 150 for a bit right at the end.

What's your process?

And awesome on the fishing. same stuff I go for. I keep my Boston Whaler Montauk 17 at Lawsons Landing (Marin California for folks not from around here), which is where I do all my fishing. Except for herring, which is mostly SF Bay, although we did get a run of herring up here this year too. We had such a spectacular run of salmon fishing earlier in the season, I was catching limits by 10am most fishable days. And the size was spectacular, I started thinking of 15 pounders as dinks. What a year. Now things are a bit slow after our last blow, most boats are grinding all day to catch maybe one salmon. But when they catch it's usually over 20 pounds, so I guess it's well worth it. If I didn't have a freezer full of salmon I'd be grinding with them. If and when it turns back on I'm ready.

Where do you go for your albacore?

 

[tallbm]

I'm trying to make a cold smoke generator for my salmon smoker and getting a ton of tar in the combustion chamber (an old fondue pot), and I'm worried that it's going to affect the taste of the fish.

Here's my smoker:

View attachment 508146

It's an old Masterbuilt with the heating element removed since it wouldn't even produce smoke until it got to about 180 degrees fareighnheight. So now I have the heating element from a Big Chief smoker (about 800 watts) regulated by that little box on top to keep the temp between 140 and 150. I generate the smoke externally using the propane burner on the right of the cabinet.

It works great but I have to really watch the pan to make sure it doesn't flame up. It means sitting next to the thing and watching it like a hawk for hours and hours.

So today I made this cold smoke generator:

View attachment 508151

It's a riff on a design I found online, air gets pushed through that T joint which sucks up smoke from the combustion chamber below (the fondue pot). There's some holes on the bottom of the fondue pot where I light the wood chips. I'm using an old CPAP machine to push the air.

It works beautifully, but it leaves a *ton* of tar inside the combustion chamber. This is after just a couple of hours:

View attachment 508148 View attachment 508153

I stopped the smoking since I don't want to risk ruining the fish.

Any thoughts on whether that tar imparts a flavor?

Any idea how to stop it from forming or reaching the smoker?

I should say, I'm buring apple chips cut pretty finely (not the big chips). I should also say I'm not positive it's reaching the smoker, it just scared me enough that I stopped smoking for now.

These salmon are way too hard to catch to risk ruining the fish. We've been catching some great ones here in Northern California this year.

View attachment 508152

Thanks for any help!

Hi there and welcome!
I can't help with your contraption but I can tell you what works for me and my MES. I cold smoke salmon lox and it is AMAZING!

I use my MES with a Mailbox Mod and the AMNPS tray.
I also built an cold smoke draft contraption that uses a computer fan to blow up a tube which draws smoke out of the smoker by creating an upward draft over the MES exhaust hole.

It's crude but man does it work well:

Again this goes over my MES vent and this solved all of my stale smoke issues due to now draft.
The AMNPS + Mailbox mod produces PERFECT smoke so I don't have the tar issue you are seeing.

Add all that up and you see how I cold smoke like champ... the 2 months of the year when it is cold enough for me to cold smoke here in Texas haha.

I hope this info helps! :)