The ammonia taste of Mold-600

[daveomak]

Is the meat encased in something ??? Or do you have the mold directly on the meat surface ???

 

[daveomak]

Also, lower the humidity to 78-80% if you RH gauge is accurate... 82% "may" be just a tad high....

 

[Lucad]

Hi Daveomak,
Salami encased in hog casings. Followed Len Poli recipe to the T. Using ink bird humidifier/dehumidifier to set rh. Seems close enough to reality. I will add another RH thermostat to validate. So I should only lower rh you say. I read on here that mold 600 dying causes ammonia smell is that accurate. Why would it die. Or maybe it’s too active? Hence lower rh?
First timer btw :)
Thanks
Luca

 

[daveomak]

From what I understand, the mold creates spores and dies... It's a revolving cycle...
From what I have read from folks that do charcuterie for a living, 80-82% seems to be the point where molds grow, drying doesn't dry too well....
Below ~75% ish.... case hardening is more obvious.... Sooooooooooo, I'm thinking these folks have very expensive equipment including instrumentation as they process hundreds of pounds of meat per batch... Failure is not an option....
The narrow window for creating awesome product is narrow...
All of that being said, your equipment is obviously doing well.... Tweaking the settings, to improve upon the results, will be a "touchy-feely" type of process... taking notes on settings, eyeballing the product and maybe taking many pictures to log your product and following the results to obtain your goals is something to think about...
Monitoring air changes in the chamber could be appropriate....
We are speaking of minute changes here... It is a science...
One member here, Even Brady, does this for a living.... Has his own outlet for supplies, which I do purchase from.. and works at a very reputable salumerie...

......

One of his Coppa.... Obtaining minute case hardening is an art in itself....

10C is about the lower end of the temp range... as is About 75% RH for a quality product...
Then there is the difference in the instruments... At 10c and say 78% RH, You will get a very high quality product in maybe 4-6 months... From what I understand, the finished product will awesome... Slower is better.... The meat flavors will change with time... as will tenderness...
Sorry to ramble on... I just think this process is a step beyond, and should be followed for preservation...
DON'T GIVE UP !!!!

 

[indaswamp]

I purchased a " Century Short Period Repeat Cycle Timer Day/night, or 24 Hours Operation"... It's going to be part of my curing chamber when I get going... I plan on using it to turn my fan on and off... check it out.... $30.. it can be used in conjunction with this voltage controller to slow the fan as needed.....

Cycle Timer

Dave, you link is not working...

 

[Lucad]

Yes I see that now. I will not give up. Funny thing I lowered from 85 rh to 82.5 just recently. Also just read that Mold 600 should only be used day of preparation because of possible yeast contamination. I re-sprayed a few days later to get full cover. Maybe that’s what I did wrong. Would yeast cause ammonia smell?
Tks
Luca

 

[Lucad]

Just looking up info on Mold 600 and find no official details on how it should be used re temp/rh
Luca

 

[indaswamp]

I'm a complete newb to this, but From what I have read @ wedlney&Donome is that you should keep the target rh lower in the beginning because as the meat evaporates water, it pushed the rh higher....as Dave has mentioned. W&D recommend target of 75%rh for the first stage of drying...then after the meat dries a bit, you can adjust it a little higher. They also recommend periodically opening the chamber to remove some humidity.

 

[daveomak]

Maybe this one will work...

............ cycle timer

 

[daveomak]

I went to Evan's site, "Craft Butchers Pantry" for the descriptions, as he really wants his customers to know the entire speil.. all 4 pages of it...

....... Mold 600 .......

 

[indaswamp]

Maybe this one will work...

............ cycle timer

Got it, yea, thanks that one works...bookmarked for my chamber build.

 

[Lucad]

Thank you Daveomac! Going to do some reading and validating. Started off with 90rh and 20c for 72 hours then dropped to 85rh and 14c for the last 2 weeks. Was going to progressively lower rh at same temp. Just recently went down to rh 82.5 and ammonia smell started. Still wondering what causes that specifically if temp and rh are a factor and if maybe overactive Mold.

 

[Lucad]

So all the reading i've points to this being somewhat normal process and to be patient. So will be patient and lower rh to 80ish for a while and then attempt going lower to 75 progressively. And then seems it's not an exact science to what people do every recipe i read states different drying cycles and fermentation cycles.
Thanks to all
Luca

 

[daveomak]

When using fermenting bacteria, those cultures are specific to certain temps and humidity when starting the ferment.. and subsequent temps and RH... Use the manufacturers recommendations...
Each bacteria culture was developed to match specific regions of "Europe" to imitate those flavor profiles and the "weather" is part of that process....

 

[indaswamp]

Right on Dave...thanks for posting!

 

[indaswamp]

I found this:
"
More About Humidity Control
It takes a day or two to get to know your adjustable humidifier. When fermentation starts humidity should be high (> 90%) but set your humidifier lower, at about 75% and see what will happen in an hour or two. Evaporating moisture from the sausages will increase humidity inside your fermentation chamber to about 90% or higher. Open the door periodically to let the moisture out (do some fanning with a magazine) and humidity will fall down let’s say to 80%.

Close the door and check it again to see the humidity level. Were you to set up your humidity at 90% or higher, the evaporating moisture from the sausages will soon saturate the chamber and the sausages will be soaking wet. The door should be opened and the chamber dehumidified. When drying sausages do the same, set your humidifier at 60% and see how humid the drying chamber becomes. As the sausage loses more moisture, these changes will be less pronounced and a point will be reached when humidity in the chamber will be a little higher than the setting of the humidifier.

In closed chambers such as modified refrigerators, there is no ingress nor egress of the air, and the evaporating moisture from the sausages will increase the humidity in the chamber. The fan will just facilitate drying but will move the same air around. That is why the door will have to be periodically opened to let this moisture out. If an opening could be made, a fan controlled by a humidistat switched to "dehumidify" mode would remove moist air outside. In commercial chambers the correctly prepared air (temperature and humidity) is blown into the room and sucked out at the other side."

https://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage/equipment

 

[Lucad]

I think I did ok for my first curing chamber. Old fridge with heat pad, dehumidifier and humidifier. Seems to average where I set my set points. Just since this is a first for me wondered why ammonia smell. Never saw anything about until I had the occurrence.
A1 forum and website full of good info and helpful gents. Added a pic of rosette salami and some smoked chorizo I been working on.

 

[daveomak]

You did great... I think you can substitute teach this subject....

 

[indaswamp]

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to add that the ammonia smell is due to the Penicillium nalgiovense breaking down some of the lactic acid and one of the by-products of that is ammonia. It is recommended to adjust your temp. down a couple degrees, and lower humidity about 5%. This will slow down the mold converting the lactic acid and produce less ammonia. This is also what causes the slight pH rise (less acidity) in slow fermentation salamis.

Read that somewhere in one of the Marianske books....