Sodium Erythorbate/Cure Excellerator

[Fueling Around]

Great thread.

I've looked at a number of curing calculators, and none have a "go past go" reduction under the ~1/2" per day of nitrite penetration for using erythorbate.

 

[Tinner340]

Ok, homework for you…..

Grind up some sausage with cure. Cut that in half. Mix erythorbate in one half and not the other. Stuff them and go straight to the smoker. Then tell me what the difference is. In the final product as color and texture you will see no difference. You need to read between the lines and learn what things do.

lol, The reason I started using SE years ago is because I can go strait to the smoker and the color is very much enhanced. Home work for you, use it before you post and see the difference.
You said "Only makes sense in dry curing" and "doesn't work that fast" Where did you read that? Go to any packing house and ask them what they use and why they use it. Give me a break :)

 

[SmokinEdge]

Great thread.

I've looked at a number of curing calculators, and none have a "go past go" reduction under the ~1/2" per day of nitrite penetration for using erythorbate.

No reason to push the cure time either. Cure time is what it is. Erythorbate is a useful tool, if you understand it. Nothing about curing should be sped up. That’s me, but some additives are very useful, erythorbate being one.

 

[SmokinEdge]

lol, The reason I started using SE years ago is because I can go strait to the smoker and the color is very much enhanced. Home work for you, use it before you post and see the difference.
You said "Only makes sense in dry curing" and "doesn't work that fast" Where did you read that? Go to any packing house and ask them what they use and why they use it. Give me a break :)

I have extensive experience with erythorbate. Like I told you split a batch of sausage. You don’t understand nitrite and how it works, nor do you understand erythorbate and what it works. No interest in a fight. But a good debate on the inter workings of each would be very helpful for the readers. You first.

 

[Tinner340]

I have extensive experience with erythorbate. Like I told you split a batch of sausage. You don’t understand nitrite and how it works, nor do you understand erythorbate and what it works. No interest in a fight. But a good debate on the inter workings of each would be very helpful for the readers. You first.

The sausage on the left I made with SE last week, the one on the right was in 2018 without, both with clear casings and I've used the same recipe for years. Have you done it both ways? I don't care for a pissing match either but, I am a little surprised that you have extensive experence of using SE listening to what you have to say. Don't assume people lack knowledge in meat processing because they just joined the forum. I joined to help others and to learn myself not to listen to people that think they know everything about it. Make sure you know what you are talking about before you post.

 

[wesir]

Ok, homework for you…..

Grind up some sausage with cure. Cut that in half. Mix erythorbate in one half and not the other. Stuff them and go straight to the smoker. Then tell me what the difference is. In the final product as color and texture you will see no difference. You need to read between the lines and learn what things do.

I don't think he'd be telling people to take it from the stuffer to the smoker without resting if it wasn't safe, would probably open them up to a bunch of lawsuits.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Sodium nitrite is a direct and fast acting cure agent. It starts reacting with meat structure immediately, converting to nitrous acid and/or nitric oxide. When applied to ground meat the cure happens very fast as the meat particles are very small, so about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature is all that is really needed for a cure in ground sausage meat. Hot smoking the sausage in temperature at or above 140*F will further reduce nitrite. In sausage the USDA sets the in going nitrite level at 156ppm. At this level it is safe to consume with no reduction, although that is impossible because the nitrite reduction starts immediately. For safety concerns it is best to reduce nitrite levels as much as possible in the final product because if the meat is exposed to high heat, like frying in a pan, nitrosamines can form and are thought to be a carcinogen. Careful curing procedure should be used for nitrite reduction for this reason, that’s where cure accelerators come in.

Sodium Erythorbate is chemically the sodium salt of erythorbic acid which is a derivative of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) when used in combination with sodium nitrite it accelerates the nitrite reduction or curing process. Curing times can be reduced by as much as 1/3. So in the case of sausage that can cure in about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature, total cure time is cut by about 4 hours. It still takes 8 hours to obtain a full cure. However if you want to stuff and go straight to the smoker you can, just like using ECA, this is because of the antioxidant value of vitamin C and it’s derivatives that inhibit the formation of nitrosamines. As long as the in going nitrite was 156ppm or less, the sausage is safe to consume. The idea of mixing, stuffing and straight to smoker includes all the time it takes from the moment the nitrite touches the meat to the time it takes for the sausage to reach an internal temperature of about 140*. In all that time curing is taking place. Difference may just be the residual levels of nitrite left in the sausage, that though is offset by the antioxidants in sodium erythorbate so again the product is safe.

Best sausage or general curing practice is to allow the meats to cure properly, the additional sodium erythorbate helps the curing process, depletes oxygen which helps to inhibit oxidation and fixes the cured color, and helps stop fat rancidity.

 

[DougE]

Sodium nitrite is a direct and fast acting cure agent. It starts reacting with meat structure immediately, converting to nitrous acid and/or nitric oxide. When applied to ground meat the cure happens very fast as the meat particles are very small, so about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature is all that is really needed for a cure in ground sausage meat. Hot smoking the sausage in temperature at or above 140*F will further reduce nitrite. In sausage the USDA sets the in going nitrite level at 156ppm. At this level it is safe to consume with no reduction, although that is impossible because the nitrite reduction starts immediately. For safety concerns it is best to reduce nitrite levels as much as possible in the final product because if the meat is exposed to high heat, like frying in a pan, nitrosamines can form and are thought to be a carcinogen. Careful curing procedure should be used for nitrite reduction for this reason, that’s where cure accelerators come in.

Sodium Erythorbate is chemically the sodium salt of erythorbic acid which is a derivative of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) when used in combination with sodium nitrite it accelerates the nitrite reduction or curing process. Curing times can be reduced by as much as 1/3. So in the case of sausage that can cure in about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature, total cure time is cut by about 4 hours. It still takes 8 hours to obtain a full cure. However if you want to stuff and go straight to the smoker you can, just like using ECA, this is because of the antioxidant value of vitamin C and it’s derivatives that inhibit the formation of nitrosamines. As long as the in going nitrite was 156ppm or less, the sausage is safe to consume. The idea of mixing, stuffing and straight to smoker includes all the time it takes from the moment the nitrite touches the meat to the time it takes for the sausage to reach an internal temperature of about 140*. In all that time curing is taking place. Difference may just be the residual levels of nitrite left in the sausage, that though is offset by the antioxidants in sodium erythorbate so again the product is safe.

Best sausage or general curing practice is to allow the meats to cure properly, the additional sodium erythorbate helps the curing process, depletes oxygen which helps to inhibit oxidation and fixes the cured color, and helps stop fat rancidity.

More in depth than most want to go, but I'm more process oriented. I don't just want to know that if I do X, Y will be the result. I want to know why 'Y" is the result and how I got there.

 

[Tinner340]

Sodium nitrite is a direct and fast acting cure agent. It starts reacting with meat structure immediately, converting to nitrous acid and/or nitric oxide. When applied to ground meat the cure happens very fast as the meat particles are very small, so about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature is all that is really needed for a cure in ground sausage meat. Hot smoking the sausage in temperature at or above 140*F will further reduce nitrite. In sausage the USDA sets the in going nitrite level at 156ppm. At this level it is safe to consume with no reduction, although that is impossible because the nitrite reduction starts immediately. For safety concerns it is best to reduce nitrite levels as much as possible in the final product because if the meat is exposed to high heat, like frying in a pan, nitrosamines can form and are thought to be a carcinogen. Careful curing procedure should be used for nitrite reduction for this reason, that’s where cure accelerators come in.

Sodium Erythorbate is chemically the sodium salt of erythorbic acid which is a derivative of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) when used in combination with sodium nitrite it accelerates the nitrite reduction or curing process. Curing times can be reduced by as much as 1/3. So in the case of sausage that can cure in about 12 hours at refrigeration temperature, total cure time is cut by about 4 hours. It still takes 8 hours to obtain a full cure. However if you want to stuff and go straight to the smoker you can, just like using ECA, this is because of the antioxidant value of vitamin C and it’s derivatives that inhibit the formation of nitrosamines. As long as the in going nitrite was 156ppm or less, the sausage is safe to consume. The idea of mixing, stuffing and straight to smoker includes all the time it takes from the moment the nitrite touches the meat to the time it takes for the sausage to reach an internal temperature of about 140*. In all that time curing is taking place. Difference may just be the residual levels of nitrite left in the sausage, that though is offset by the antioxidants in sodium erythorbate so again the product is safe.

Best sausage or general curing practice is to allow the meats to cure properly, the additional sodium erythorbate helps the curing process, depletes oxygen which helps to inhibit oxidation and fixes the cured color, and helps stop fat rancidity.

Nice, did your homework I see.

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

Would adding the sodium erythorbate to the mixing liquid make sense? I typically add liquid at 10%.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Yes, dissolving the erythorbate works best.

Would adding the sodium erythorbate to the mixing liquid make sense? I typically add liquid at 10%.

 

[Tinner340]

Would adding the sodium erythorbate to the mixing liquid make sense? I typically add liquid at 10%.

If you are making ready to eat sausages, summer sausage, snack sticks, etc..., I typically add sodium erythorbate with my dry mix then add cure with liquid at about 8% with no problems.

 

[indaswamp]

Would adding the sodium erythorbate to the mixing liquid make sense? I typically add liquid at 10%.

As long as you don't mix both the cure and the sodium erythorbate together in the water.....

 

[wesir]

Just mixed my first batch with Cure Excellerator (Sodium Erythorbate (22%), Sodium Citrate (22%)), ran a bit late and decided I didn't want to start the cook tonight, already liking this stuff over ECA. Guessing the answer is no but is there any harm to waiting until Sunday instead of tomorrow to smoke them?

Also I didn't think about it when I ordered it but the only size of Cure Excellerator was 5lb, the usage is .125 lb per 100lb of meat....I have enough for 4,000lb of meat.

 

[SmokinEdge]

22% is way off the chart. .22% would be very high and .05% more in line.

 

[wesir]

22% is way off the chart. .22% would be very high and .05% more in line.

Might just be how much of the mixture is diluted sodium erythorbate? The documentation on the site kinda sucks which was why I started this thread.

Cure Excellerator

This Cure Excellerator is a combination of Sodium Erythorbate and Sodium Citrate. It is faster acting than pure sodium erythorbate.

waltons.com

 

[SmokinEdge]

Major miss read on your part. They recommended 0.125lbs. to 100 pounds meat. That is 0.5% NOT 22%.

 

[SmokinEdge]

22% is in the ingredients, but not the application.

 

[wesir]

Major miss read on your part. They recommended 0.125lbs. to 100 pounds meat. That is 0.5% NOT 22%.

? I mixed in 0.4 oz for my 20lb of meat, the 22% I pasted was the ingredients so people didn't have to go lookup what Cure Excellerator was. By their directions I have enough to do 4,000 pounds of meat so I should be good for life lol.

 

[SmokinEdge]

? I mixed in 0.4 oz for my 20lb of meat, the 22% I pasted was the ingredients so people didn't have to go lookup what Cure Excellerator was. By their directions I have enough to do 4,000 pounds of meat so I should be good for life lol.

Thanks for the clarification. Your application is good with that product.