Sausage Smoking temp.

[Oleg]

Hello all,

I am trying to figure out the maximum temperature before pork sausage turns dry and crumbly.

Thank you.

 

[boykjo]

???????????? Heat isnt the only factor that can make sausage become dry and crumbly. That's like saying how high of a temp should I cook a steak to get it well done. Sausages can become dry and crumbly not only by high heat causing fat out but not using enough fat to lean ratio, not achieving the correct bind, cooking too long, adding to much binder, using and inferior meat, adding to much water, etc.

Boykjo

 

[Oleg]

Hi boykjo,
Thank you for your response. I understand that I need to have a broader view of the process. You see, I am very new to smoking meats and trying to save myself time and money by not wasting good food. I am purchasing raw brats from Whole Foods and experimenting with them. I am working with Mild Italian Chicken and German Pork sausage. It's not a perfect way to learn but saves me a lot of time. So, any tips on maximum temperature on either type of brat?
Thank you for your patience. It's really appreciated.
Oleg.

 

[indaswamp]

I would not buy fresh sausages from a store to smoke them as they likely do not have cure in them.
You could cook them on a smoker, but you will need to hot smoke them @225* so the interior temp will rise above 140* within 4 hours so the links will be safe to eat. This is a very different process than making actual smoke sausage where you start off at a low temp. of around 120* and then step the temp. up 10* about every hour until you reach ~170*. This process will take a while and the links will be in the danger zone below 140* for more than 4 hours, which is why we use cure in the meat paste.
To do it right, you need to be able to control your temperature and be able to get it down to 120*F and hold it steady.

 

[chef jimmyj]

They will smoke up fine. Fresh sausage, as in no cure #1, get cooked at 225°+. You want plenty of smoke flavor, 225 for 2-3 hours until the Internal Temp reaches 165. At 325, they will be done in an hour, give or take...JJ

 

[Oleg]

Hi indaswamp and chef jimmyj,

Thank you for your suggestions. My wife is totally into organic and natural food. I am afraid using cure is not an option. By the way, indaswamp and multiple other sources suggest slowly stepping the temperature. What's the benefit of doing this instead of setting your smoker at 170-180 and waiting for proper internal temperature?

 

[daveomak]

Using cure#1 should be a very important option.... Nitrite kills botulism... Smoking meats, especially ground meats, below 225 F can be the perfect breeding ground for botulism...

 

[Bearcarver]

Hi indaswamp and chef jimmyj,

Thank you for your suggestions. My wife is totally into organic and natural food. I am afraid using cure is not an option. By the way, indaswamp and multiple other sources suggest slowly stepping the temperature. What's the benefit of doing this instead of setting your smoker at 170-180 and waiting for proper internal temperature?

Among other things, what I like most is the extra time for putting good Smoke on.
Once cured, I actually like to keep it down at about 130° or so for awhile, before I raise the smoker temp, but I love a lot of Light Smoke on my Meats.

Bear

 

[chopsaw]

Hi indaswamp and chef jimmyj,

Thank you for your suggestions. My wife is totally into organic and natural food. I am afraid using cure is not an option. By the way, indaswamp and multiple other sources suggest slowly stepping the temperature. What's the benefit of doing this instead of setting your smoker at 170-180 and waiting for proper internal temperature?

You should ask your question as time and temps for smoking un cured sausage . Make sure to re read post 5 and 7 . If you are not using cure , you are not stepping the temp , you are running at 225 or higher . Learn it all , but know what you need to do the sausage you have now .

 

[Oleg]

Thanks Bear and Daveomak and Chopsaw,

I understand the importance of minimizing botulism risk. Please provide your critique to the following idea and do not spare my feelings.

1 Marinate meat in a vacuum tumbler.
2 In a large pot heat the marinade to 150-155
3 Put meat in heated marinate and wait until internal temperature is 140-145
4 Transfer to the smoker preheated to 170-180 and wait for proper internal temperature.

The idea behind this process is to keep meat as fresh as possible minimizing the risk of bacteria growth. As I mentioned before using a cure is not an option for my wife....

 

[boykjo]

I hot smoke fresh sausage at 190 degrees. The sausage will reach a safe internal temperature of 160 degrees in about 2 to 3 hours. Smoke can be added via pellet tube smoker http://www.amazenproducts.com/

boykjo

 

[Oleg]

Thank you boykjo, good to know about 190 degrees. I understand it's not hot enough to melt fat? I am using an electric smoker with a separate Masterbuilt 20070112 Cold Smoking Kit. Works great.

 

[boykjo]

1 Marinate meat in a vacuum tumbler.
2 In a large pot heat the marinade to 150-155
3 Put meat in heated marinate and wait until internal temperature is 140-145
4 Transfer to the smoker preheated to 170-180 and wait for proper internal temperature.
1. your marinating store bought links in a tumbler?
2. your removing the links from the tumbler and taking the leftover marinade and heating it up in a pot?
3. your cooking the meat in the pot of marinade to IT of 140 to 145?
4. your moving the links to the smoker and finish?.
I dont see the need to marinate the links in the tumbler. Using your process I would cook sausages in the marinade and finish in the smoker but you wont get much smoke penetration because the sausage will be already cooked. smoke adheres best to the sausage when it is raw stage and has a pellicle. Run your smoker at 190 and finish at 160.

boykjo

 

[Oleg]

1 Sorry for not being clear about the meat. It would be pork, not links.
2 I can reheat the same marinade or have one ready.
3 Sorry, it was thinking of something else. Of course 160-165 internal temperature.
4 Yes, the idea is to heave preheated smoker to not let meat drop in temperature and keep it above the danger zone.

 

[indaswamp]

Thanks Bear and Daveomak and Chopsaw,

I understand the importance of minimizing botulism risk. Please provide your critique to the following idea and do not spare my feelings.

1 Marinate meat in a vacuum tumbler.
2 In a large pot heat the marinade to 150-155
3 Put meat in heated marinate and wait until internal temperature is 140-145
4 Transfer to the smoker preheated to 170-180 and wait for proper internal temperature.

The idea behind this process is to keep meat as fresh as possible minimizing the risk of bacteria growth. As I mentioned before using a cure is not an option for my wife....

There is a very big difference between handling whole cuts of meat and ground meat (which includes sausages because well, they are ground up.) whole cuts are considered bacteria free internally because it is hard for the bacteria to travel through the tissues to the middle (unless there is an obvious gash or large vessel which gives an easy pathway to the center of the whole cut). This is why we can cook whole cuts of beef. like a steak, to rare and still be safe.

If you will not use cure to honor your wife's request, then stick to hot smoking like boykjo suggests in order to be safe. Just know that hot smoking sausage is a different process that step smoking - you will not get a deep rich smoke flavor because the cooking time is so short.

Also-the new wave of organic eating, processors are advertising "no cure" sausages but in reality it does have sodium nitrite from a natural source using celery juice. Because of this, some people believe you can step smoke sausages without cure and that is simply not true. You may be able to find a source for celery juice with a tested sodium nitrite concentration so you will know how much to add. Follow the instructions carefully. Happy smokes!

 

[indaswamp]

Here ya go:
https://www.sausagemaker.com/Celery-Juice-Powder-p/11-1031.htm

 

[Oleg]

Indaswamp, Thank you for the information and the link for celery juice powder. I am going to find out if their raw brats are cured. Good information regarding whole cuts. I am getting a ThermoPro TP20 thermometer tomorrow and going to try smoking pork. Any failsafe recipes and good parts of pork for cold smoking?

 

[daveomak]

FWIW, there is no difference between vegetative occuring nitrites or nitrates and store bought nitrites or nitrates... Nitrites and nitrates are naturally occuring ..... It's a gimmic so some folks have a "feel good" moment... If you add 1.1 grams of nitrite to a pound of meat, whether it be celery or store bought, the results are the same, maybe... at least you have the satisfaction of knowing exactly how much nitrite you are adding.... Adding 0.25% cure#1 gives a USDA accepted nitrite protection of 156 Ppm nitrite....
In the Sausage Maker explanation, they acknowledge they don't know how much you are adding...
Recommended usage: 0.45% - 0.9% Celery Juice Powder of total weight of ground meat will bring sausage to 100 - 200ppm nitrite
*The USDA currently does not recognize naturally occurring nitrates as effective curing agents in meats, so if using Celery Juice Powder for products being sold to the public, the end-products must be labeled "Uncured".

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you for catching that Dave....

 

[indaswamp]

BTW, the way cure was discovered was from a naturally occurring salt source which had sodium nitrate already present. when people used this salt to salt cure meats they noticed that it would turn pink and would last a lot longer. It took a while until the age of the scientific method to discover why.

Which is why using cure is 'natural' IMO......