Rethinking Google and my using it's products!

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deltadude

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
Jun 3, 2008
1,529
37
Sacramento Area
Years ago Google was the maverick, the little search engine that could, that morphed into a Colossus search tool. My home page in the early days of the Internet was Yahoo, but as soon as I discovered Google, I loved it's simplicity and effectiveness, home has been Google ever since. Further when Google's founder and CEO Eric Schmidt announced they would not be cooperating with Bush's new Homeland security by turning over access to archieved searchs and ip's accessing email gmail accounts or any other private user data, I was encouraged, that Google was helping protect one of the last bastions of freedom the internet.

Things have changed, the White House is now led by Progressive So******t, and Eric Schmidt seems to find working with the Government now a safer proposition. The fact is Eric Schmidt and many Google executives are also politically progressive, (no surprise there is a never ending line of smart people who think they should run our lives because they know what is best, many find a home with progressives). Apparently there is a progressive love affair between Obama and Eric Schmidt, who enjoys White House access, and has been offered the lofty title of "Technology Czar", which Schmidt politely refused.

I am now changing my home page, and going to find a new search engine, plus close the 4 gmail email accounts that I have. The enemy is government intrusion into the private lives of its citizens, What Google wouldn't do for America's national security is now willing to sell it's soul to prevent China from pilfering Google's own technology and data. I'm not a criminal or spend my time browsing stuff I shouldn't be, nor a hacker or any kind of internet activity that would be considered illegal. I am serious about not wanting an abusive government looking over my shoulder, or has the potential to eventually access that kind of power. "See bottom excerpt on Google's control over your internet life".

Big Brother either want's control or will take over, the reigns of society both economically and socially. Control... It is my belief that our personal freedom is in jeopardy, not today, not tomorrow, but eventually. Who would have ever believed that our Government would be telling private companies how much they can pay their employees or how big a bonus they get, or would be half owner of Chrysler and GM (the stock holders never even got to vote on Gov. ownership).. The internet is in their sights, as well as talk radio, all forms of communication media. Control...

Google to enlist NSA to help it ward off cyberattacks (BS! Google records, pass to NSA)

Washington (com)Post ^ | Feb 4, 2010 | Ellen Nakashima

Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:16:44 AM by max americana

The world's largest Internet search company and the world's most powerful electronic surveillance organization are teaming up in the name of cybersecurity.

Under an agreement that is being finalized, the National Security Agency would help Google analyze a major corporate espionage attack that the firm said originated in China and targeted its computer networks, according to cybersecurity experts familiar with the matter. The objective is to better defend Google -- and its users -- from future attack.

Google and the NSA declined to comment on the partnership. But sources with knowledge of the arrangement, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the alliance is being designed to allow the two organizations to share critical information without violating Google's policies or laws that protect the privacy of Americans' online communications. The sources said the deal does not mean the NSA will be viewing users' searches or e-mail accounts or that Google will be sharing proprietary data.

The partnership strikes at the core of one of the most sensitive issues for the government and private industry in the evolving world of cybersecurity: how to balance privacy and national security interests. On Tuesday, Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair called the Google attacks, which the company acknowledged in January, a "wake-up call." Cyberspace cannot be protected, he said, without a "collaborative effort that incorporates both the U.S. private sector and our international partners."

But achieving collaboration is not easy, in part because private companies do not trust the government to keep their secrets and in part because of concerns that collaboration can lead to continuous government monitoring of private communications. Privacy advocates, concerned about a repeat of the NSA's warrantless interception of Americans' phone calls and e-mails after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, say information-sharing must be limited and closely overseen. (excerpt)

Google's control over your internet life... (excerpt)
Google's ambitions seem to know no bounds. The number of products and services the company has launched just since in the last half of this decade (which began in 2001 and will end with the arrival of 2011) is staggering.

Google's products have been explicitly designed to provide a bigger and more dangerous window into the lives of users. Through its search engine it can log queries. Through Google Analytics, AdSense, and widgets embedded on countless websites, it can quietly track surfing behavior.

Through Google Checkout it can obtain and store credit card numbers. Through Google Talk, Google Voice, and Gmail, it can monitor personal communication. Through Android and the Nexus One, it can capture mobile phone numbers. Through applications like Latitude and turn-by-turn maps, it can discern a user's location. Through YouTube it knows what people are watching and what they like to watch. The forthcoming Chrome OS will automatically upload copies of anything on a drive that's plugged in to Google's datacenters.

Then there's Google's plot to get its hands on millions of orphaned books.

I could go on. And on. Google's endgame seems to be a world in which we connect to it to do everything... a world without user privacy and a world in which there is no competition. Forget choice in the marketplace. How about no marketplace at all?

Article:
NSA Spying

The U.S. government, with assistance from major telecommunications carriers including AT&T, has engaged in a massive program of illegal dragnet surveillance of domestic communications and communications records of millions of ordinary Americans since at least 2001.

News reports in December 2005 first revealed that the National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting Americans’ phone calls and Internet communications. Those news reports, plus a USA Today story in May 2006 and the statements of several members of Congress, revealed that the NSA is also receiving wholesale copies of their telephone and other communications records. All of these surveillance activities are in violation of the privacy safeguards established by Congress and the U.S. Constitution.

The evidence also shows that the government did not act alone. EFF has obtained whistleblower evidence [PDF] from former AT&T technician Mark Klein showing that AT&T is cooperating with the illegal surveillance. The undisputed documents show that AT&T installed a fiberoptic splitter at its facility at 611 Folsom Street in San Francisco that makes copies of all emails, web browsing, and other Internet traffic to and from AT&T customers, and provides those copies to the NSA. This copying includes both domestic and international Internet activities of AT&T customers. As one expert observed, “this isn’t a wiretap, it’s a country-tap.”

EFF is fighting these illegal activities on multiple fronts. In Hepting v. AT&T, EFF filed the first case against a telecom for violating its customers' privacy. In addition, EFF is representing victims of the illegal surveillance program in Jewel v. NSA, a lawsuit filed in September 2008 against the government seeking to stop the warrantless wiretapping and hold the government officials behind the program accountable.

EFF is not alone in this fight. There are multiple cases challenging various parts of the illegal surveillance against both the telecoms and the government. This page collects information on EFF's cases as well as cases brought by individuals, the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California and of Illinois, the Center for Constitutional Rights, and others.
 
I have been using Ask.com . I will have to read and see if they do the same . Great post .
 
I love Google, greatest search engine to date not to mention all the amazing technology they are involved in, like Google Earth.
Loved them so much got the Nexus One the Google Phone and I gotta say that screw an iPhone this thing is amazing, and sure it may not have the apps the iPhone has...yet but its Google, one of the things they are best known for is free amazing applications, I do love that barcode app.(I believe it is on the iPhone also)
Take a pic of a barcode or building or whatever you want and it scans it and finds results on the internet.
 
I was there with you friend, but I sadly have to turn my back and move on. Wait until you have been investigated by a state agency just to get a certification or a license, and you will know what I am talking about. My license was to manage a Calif poker cardroom/casino. If the gov. had my browsing and where I went on the internet, they would have known I played online poker for a living for 3 years. There is no law against that, and it isn't the gov. business either. I voluntarily gave that info to get my license, and said I wouldn't be involved in online poker, which I had to provide a signed notarized letter stating such. In the end it cost me close to $10,000 for that license, for being honest. At the time there was no way the gov. could get what I was doing on the internet, nor should they be allowed to. But the Google/NSA deal, with an ever intrusive/abusive Gov. my internet info which is private today, could be accessible to any gov. agency, in the not so distant future.

(It is the ol slippery slope, just like gun registration, it is not about guns it is about control. Take a stand or be as sheep led to the slaughter.)
 
Of course they could have. Everywhere you go on the Internet, your computer is identifed by and IP address and a MAC address. The MAC address identifies the network interface card in your machine and the IP address can be tied to an account from an Internet service provider.

There's no conspiracy at work with those two addresses -- those two pieces of information are necessary for network traffic to be routed properly.

All "the gov" would need is access to logs and cooperation from the online gambling site and your Internet service provider. I assumed you used a credit card or some form of guarantee of payment when you played. There's another electronic trail that you left.

The government doesn't need Google in order to figure out what people are doing on the Internet. All they have to do is analyze network traffic and trace the IP addresses.

Total Internet anonymity is really something of spy movies and doesn't actually exist. In order for routable network traffic to flow in an orderly fashion IP addresses and MAC addresses are a necessity.

Dave
 
Matter of fact a few years back the Government told Google they had to give up the names of people who were downloading certain files "pirating" and Google told them to go screw themselves and fought for their users privacy.
 
In reality, there is no privacy on the internet. From sniffing key words your tracked, internet behaviors, You're tracked. Big brother is watching. most people just dont know it.
 
Yes if there was a criminal investigation then the Gov can subpoena your IP log history from you ISP. SUBPOENA with a court order! There is two levels of protection here, Court, and the ISP has the log the Gov. does not. But that is NOT what we are talking about, Google has everything you search and where you go from those searches. What you are thinking that day is revealed in those searches. What about privacy in your Gmail, and all the google documents you store online. No longer is Google a private enterprise that once fiercely guarded your data, NOW Google is choosing to work with the Gov. to protect Google's own security. Excuse me don't you think with Google's money they can buy the best security possible? Yeah the Gov has access to huge think tank tech projects that develop specialized stuff for big G. However Google can most likely buy equal or better.

Yes it is true most people haven't a clue about how much info about them is freely available on the internet. As for me, I am not assuming a conspiracy, I am reading in plain english that a company that once refused to work with our Gov. is now willingly getting involved with the world's largest electronic intelligence gathering organization.
 
Maybe . . . but when you have a foreign government trying to hack your system, why would you hire a private agency with no enforcement authority to try and protect you? Why not let your government help?

If China can succeed in compromising Google's servers what makes you think that online banking or military US interests won't be their next targets -- if they are not targeting them already.

Maybe it's just me but I am not that worried that Google is working with the NSA to protect its interests. I have a fairly extensive background in network traffic analysis and have known for quite some time that there is really no anonymity on the Internet. It is a choice you make for convenience I suppose. There are a lot of Google services that I won't use (like Google Desktop -- that one seemed VERY intrusive to me) but their search engine doesn't worry me in the least.

Dave
 
DDave, I have always appreciated your points of view, and now I appreciate your expertise with a background in networking and such.

But I am not the only one concerned, I reacted to the head line because of the logical conclusion, and posted here at SMF. Since posting here is one article that supports this concern: for more details that may help to illuminate the concern that not only I have but many privacy experts have:
 
Dude, thank you very much. I consider that quite a compliment.

Thanks also for posting the additional article. It does appear that there is a lot more going on than meets the eye. And I'm certainly not niave enough to think that the government's intentons are always as pure as the wind-driven snow.

It certainly appears that a little healthy skepticism is in order in this case.

Dave
 
As an IT profaessional I stay up on most the IT technologies and Google has always been my top search engine. They have always been far ahead of the pack.

Unfortunately some of the crap they are pulling these days has got me dissapointed to say the least. This is what happens when a company or corp. gets too big. Any time a IT company gets enagaged with the Governement I start questioning their intent. And when they are working directly with the NSA well its going to be collecting, storing and mining of data. I don't have a problem with the eaves dropping technology as it has saved us from terrorists in the past. I have a problem with the lack of accountability and control over the uses of this technology. Its happened time and time again in the past that these technologies are were for political gains etc.

Technology & Guns are not bad its the folks behind the abusive use of these right?

All this said, Microsoft's Bing.com is a pretty impressive search engine. Its better at finding media on web sites other then flash. It also does a better job displaying media to the user. Little by little its been biting into Googles search and advertising market. Tides may be turning.

IS this more "Change we can believe in"? I don't think I can handle any more change as not all change is welcome or useful for that matter.

PDT_Armataz_01_36.gif
 
I really don't know what this has to do with smoking meat, but I know that if Google had done this during the past administration the lefties and the mainstream press would have gone wild. Now not a whimper. What does that tell you?

A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves.
 
Since Google is under siege from the Chinese government, the only choice to turn to is the NSA. It sucks.

Google took tons of **** from us lefties about working with the Chinese government and being a Chinese government tool to track down dissidents and censor searches. They are now reaping what they've sowed. And yes, the left IS making hey about now being in bed with the NSA, but you won't hear much about it in right wing forums because, 1) They're right wing forums and those forums don't accept much commentary from the left (just like left wing forums don't accept much commentary from the right), and 2) Selective political memory. You block out the left's bitching about it because us bitching about it doesn't fit your notions of right vs left politics.

Google's base problem is they are now run by Eric Schmidt, and he's a career loser. But he's part of the good old boys network of retread CEOs so some company will always give him a chance. Just like Bush Jr always got put in charge of things, even though everything he ran got ran straight into the ground (there, got my obligatory left wing Bush bash in).
 
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