new strategy on my andouille/mes

[mawil1013]

IMG_20170108_094436.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 8, 2017

Closing Remarks; As I cut up the pork butt I noted that, this particular PB was heavily fatted compared to last one. With adding the pork fat addition the texture is in the range of bologna. I'm thinking about switching to pork shoulder which typically has little fat and then add pork fat as recipes call for in order to have better control over meat to fat portions? Next time that is what I'll be doing. Overall I'm contented with this batch and now is the time to start putting together Seafood Gumbo.

Finished, pulled at 153F and plunged into cold water :sausage, Tastes Great!:;

IMG_20170107_221147.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

Stuffed N hung to dry.

IMG_20170107_140519.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

IMG_20170107_141032.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

Letting Nature cool off the sausage mix.

IMG_20170107_130632.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

Update 2: I'm using this fellows recipe. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/254844/andouille-sausage
The preColdsmoke was an hour, checking every 15 minutes pork steaks were always cool to touch and no dripping. I like that it dried it at least on the outside! Everything is cubed and in a pan outside in 28F temp, to cool before grind/stuff. Even though my scent was smoked out from tending the preColdsmoke I can smell nice smoke on raw steaks! I asked my wife to smell and she smelled it too, so, so far so good. Note: Only the second recipe that I've used, worried spices are going to overwhelm there is a lot of spices! Anyone else beside this fellow tried this recipe for comparison, to other recipes of andouille? I didn't see a water addition but I'm going to add 1/2 cup ice cold water to recipe.

IMG_20170107_121607(1).jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

Update 1: preColdsmoke going well, using cold MES and amazn hickory pellets, at 15 minutes lots of smoke and pork not warm, nor melting, door open by half inch, lots of smoke, went ahead and added parague1 to spice mix for later to keep color. If this keeps up I'll smoke up to another 45 minutes or until pellets give out, every 15 minutes I'll make sure thick pork slices are still cool to touch.


Changing strategy for smoked andouille. I'm going to cut the pork butt into slices and strips, ((>> *Update >Changed my mind, ran MES Cold using amazn pellet >>>then, running the MES hot, Crack door to keep it cool, but also keep the chips burning and smoking for maybe twenty minutes,)) my idea is to preColdsmoke raw pork, then cube, etc, make sausage then, hot smoke sausage in casing, shouldn't need to use cure. This way smoke is penetrated all the way through without spending days cold smoking.

IMG_20170107_090234_hdr.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

IMG_20170107_092119.jpg

• mawil1013
• Jan 7, 2017

 

[jipnsmoke]

​Well I hope it works out for you ok. But pre Cold smoke raw pork scares me with out it being cured. If it gets to worm. I know you say twenty minutes. My take is meat won't take on smoke well until internal temperature is around 100 degrease. This is just my thoughts. Good luck.

 

[SmokinAl]

First of all, I don't think your going to get much smoke flavor in 20 minutes.

Second I've never seen a recipe for Andouille that cold smokes it for days.

The recipe I have uses cure#1, and is smoked.

Yes you can omit the cure & hot smoke it like fresh sausage, but it won't have the classic flavor of Andouille.

My recipe calls for putting the sausage in a pre heated smoker set at 120 degrees for an hour without smoke,

then increase smoker temp to 140 & add smoke for 1 hour, then bump temp to 165 with smoke & smoke until the IT is 152.

Then shower with cold water.

This will give you a traditional Andouille.

Al

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Well not saying it wont work the way your stating. But why dont you rub your dry with cure onto your meat, cold smoke then grind? You looking for a chunky style andouille? Sorta like Jacobs

 

[mawil1013]

​Well I hope it works out for you ok. But pre Cold smoke raw pork scares me with out it being cured. If it gets to worm. I know you say twenty minutes. My take is meat won't take on smoke well until internal temperature is around 100 degrease. This is just my thoughts. Good luck.

Been leaving briskets and spareribs out overnight for decades so that meat is at room temp. You know how something cold grabs and condenses water, that's how air conditioning works. I wrap cold meat in towels so that the surface doesn't become warmer the inside, allows a gradual and equal warm up. I do the same thing if I have frozen meat, wrap in several towels which keeps the meat surface cool as inside and surface temp warms equally.

 

[mawil1013]

Well not saying it wont work the way your stating. But why dont you rub your dry with cure onto your meat, cold smoke then grind? You looking for a chunky style andouille? Sorta like Jacobs

The meat I'm going to presmoke will be thick slices or thick strips, than I after presmoke processed normally for coarse grind.

 

[mawil1013]

First of all, I don't think your going to get much smoke flavor in 20 minutes.
Second I've never seen a recipe for Andouille that cold smokes it for days.
The recipe I have uses cure#1, and is smoked.
Yes you can omit the cure & hot smoke it like fresh sausage, but it won't have the classic flavor of Andouille.
My recipe calls for putting the sausage in a pre heated smoker set at 120 degrees for an hour without smoke,
then increase smoker temp to 140 & add smoke for 1 hour, then bump temp to 165 with smoke & smoke until the IT is 152.
Then shower with cold water.
This will give you a traditional Andouille.

Al

Most articles I've read about curing say that the reason for cure 1 is that they meat will be cold smoked as long as it takes to remove moisture, reduce moisture up to 30%. The removal of water is one of the most important components of curing which creates an environment that makes it difficult for bacteria to multiply. Low moisture plus cure go hand in hand. By removing water you change meat texture, think hard or dry salami or pepperoni. When I get my mailbox completed is when I'll start trial on old time curing.

 

[SmokinAl]

Most articles I've read about curing say that the reason for cure 1 is that they meat will be cold smoked as long as it takes to remove moisture, reduce moisture up to 30%. The removal of water is one of the most important components of curing which creates an environment that makes it difficult for bacteria to multiply. Low moisture plus cure go hand in hand. By removing water you change meat texture, think hard or dry salami or pepperoni. When I get my mailbox completed is when I'll start trial on old time curing.

I think you are mixing up cure#1 & cure#2.

Cure#2 would be used in dry curing salami & pepperoni.

Cure #1 is used in smoked sausage like Andouille.

Or you can eliminate the cure & hot smoke the sausage to 160 degrees.

But without cure you must move the IT through the danger zone in 4 hours or less.

In other words the sausage cannot be between 40-140 for more than 4 hours without risking getting sick eating it.

Al

 

[mawil1013]

I think you are mixing up cure#1 & cure#2.
Cure#2 would be used in dry curing salami & pepperoni.
Cure #1 is used in smoked sausage like Andouille.
Or you can eliminate the cure & hot smoke the sausage to 160 degrees.
But without cure you must move the IT through the danger zone in 4 hours or less.
In other words the sausage cannot be between 40-140 for more than 4 hours without risking getting sick eating it.

Al

I agree with the four hour, the preColdsmoke will be 30 minutes tops than into freezer to tighten it up, than cube the meat, mix in the cubed fat and spices/water than into Grinder to grind and stuff, then air dry in garage at 30F, then into hot smoker to smoke and cook! I thought cure 2 was for large hunks like ham where you can't mix it in, it can only be applied to surface.

 

[SmokinAl]

I agree with the four hour, the preColdsmoke will be 30 minutes tops than into freezer to tighten it up, than cube the meat, mix in the cubed fat and spices/water than into Grinder to grind and stuff, then air dry in garage at 30F, then into hot smoker to smoke and cook! I thought cure 2 was for large hunks like ham where you can't mix it in, it can only be applied to surface.

No cure #1 is used for ham, but it needs to be in a brine solution & injected into the ham to make sure it gets all the way to the middle.

Then the ham is soaked in the brine for 3 to 4 weeks.

Al

 

[mawil1013]

No cure #1 is used for ham, but it needs to be in a brine solution & injected into the ham to make sure it gets all the way to the middle.
Then the ham is soaked in the brine for 3 to 4 weeks.

Al

Gotcha!

 

[BGKYSmoker]

CURES - Cures are used in sausage products for color and flavor development as well as retarding the development of bacteria in the low temperature environment of smoked meats.

Salt and sugar both cure meat by osmosis. In addition to drawing the water from the food, they dehydrate and kill the bacteria that make food spoil. In general, though, use of the word "cure" refers to processing the meat with either sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate.

The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning). It is very important that any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and smoked at low temperature be cured. To trigger botulism poisoning, the requirements are quite simple - lack of oxygen, the presence of moisture, and temperatures in range of 40-140° F. When smoking meats, the heat and smoke eliminates the oxygen. The meats have moisture and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges of 90 to 185° F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for food poisoning if you don't use cures. There are two types of commercially used cures.

Prague Powder #1

Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to ‘gas out’ at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat.

Prague Powder #2

Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. (1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.) It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure. A cure with sodium nitrite would dissipate too quickly. Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat. When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe.

 

[SmokinAl]

Very well explained!

I'm going to copy that to my notes!

Thanks Rick!

 

[dirtsailor2003]

Some thought on your pre-cold

I cold smoke things like steaks, pork chops, ahi tuna. I then vac pack and freeze for use later.

In order to do this safely the smoker needs to be at or below 40 degrees.

30 minutes isn't going to get you the smoke flavor. When I smoke the above they all need 4-5 hours (except the ahi, 2 hours tops). This gives a good not over powering flavor.

If you want to pre smoke I think you best bet would be to grind your meat, with cure and spices. Spread it on a sheet or if you have a Q-mats on those and then smoke in a 40 degree or less smoker. Then stuff and smoke.

When I make Andouille if I am hot smoking it I use the same method Al mentions stepping the temp. Seem
to always get plenty of good smoke flavor.