New Pit Boss

[David Maita]

we picked up an upright 5 and an upright 7 earlier this month. WOW. Love them. SO much space! Easy to clean out, easy to change pellets.

we did have a problem with the door on the 7 (turned out it was a bent hinge pin), but easily fixed. Other than that, no issues getting them to seal

I love that the shelves are adjustable/removable. IIRC, we are able to get 6 briskets in the 7 series.

A quick word about temperature swings - virtually every heating appliance has temp swings. Even the oven in your kitchen will swing considerably (put your remote thermometer in it sometime and watch it swing +\- 20f.). Same with your furnace. Just the way thermostats work. The controllers/thermometers/thermostats/etc. in most appliances are set to not report those swings at a fine level of granularity. They generally report an average temp over some period of time. If they didn't, people would be constantly freaking out because of the "inconsistency" of their appliances. Unfortunately, too many of us have good thermometers and can see all that variability in our pellet smokers and but it is certainly not unique to pellet smokers.

What is the difference between the 5 and 7?

 

[yahoot]

What is the difference between the 5 and 7?

Mostly size.
the 7= 0.16 m3 / 5.6 ft3. Cooking area- 11,715 cm² / 1,815 sq. in.
the 5= 0.13 m3 / 4.6 ft3. Cooking area - 9,762 cm² / 1,513 sq. in.
the 3= 0.08 m3 / 2.8 ft3 Cooking area - 4,650 cm² / 721 sq. in.

We can smoke 6 briskets at a time in the 7.
The 3 is good, but not quite wide enough to fit a rack of ribs without cutting them - about the same width as a masterbuilt electric.

I keep a 5 at my house as my "go to" unit. nice size. footprint is reasonable, but it's big enough to cook anything for the extended family (prime rib, brisket, hams, butts, at least 10 racks of ribs, more chicken than I would want to think about, or probably 4 turkeys)....

 

[hinds90]

There is a brand new 5 still in the box for sale on Facebook marketplace in my area for 280$. So tempted

 

[yahoot]

There is a brand new 5 still in the box for sale on Facebook marketplace in my area for 280$. So tempted

That is below wholesale.

 

[David Maita]

Mostly size.
the 7= 0.16 m3 / 5.6 ft3. Cooking area- 11,715 cm² / 1,815 sq. in.
the 5= 0.13 m3 / 4.6 ft3. Cooking area - 9,762 cm² / 1,513 sq. in.
the 3= 0.08 m3 / 2.8 ft3 Cooking area - 4,650 cm² / 721 sq. in.

We can smoke 6 briskets at a time in the 7.
The 3 is good, but not quite wide enough to fit a rack of ribs without cutting them - about the same width as a masterbuilt electric.

I keep a 5 at my house as my "go to" unit. nice size. footprint is reasonable, but it's big enough to cook anything for the extended family (prime rib, brisket, hams, butts, at least 10 racks of ribs, more chicken than I would want to think about, or probably 4 turkeys)....

Great!! I want to pick up the 5 soon. Don't need the 7.
Sounds like you have used electric before? I currently have a propane smoker and wanted to get an electric... until I saw these. I have read the difference between electric and wood but wanted to get your take on it, since it sounds like you own an electric also? Thanks again for the info!!

 

[yahoot]

I think electrics are OK, with modifications. I have never seen an electric that generated enough smoke "out of the box". Their little smolder trays just can't produce enough smoke to be worthwhile.
We have an MES that I had relegated to our place in the mountains (one step from tossing it). I had tried using a smoke maze (OK, but hard to light/keep lit), a Smoke chief with a custom adapter (good smoke, but requires a lot of attention). Then I found the masterbuilt cold smoking attachment for the MES. Burns chips, and wow - it produces a lot of smoke, so our MES is finally a functional smoker - and I kind of wish it were closer to home, at times. Ours is a smaller MES, so I have to cut racks of ribs to get them to fit (I hate that), but a bigger electric would be fine.

With that said, I love the convenience of pellet smokers. We own a bunch and use them constantly (home, business, catering...). Easy to use, huge capacity. turn it on and it just works. Pellets are easy to handle/store/switch. We literally buy them by the ton. I always smoke low and slow (rare to see our rigs above 200 degrees), so no issues with too little smoke.
There is an inverse relationship between smoke and heat in a pellet burner (they burn "cleaner" at higher temps instead of producing smoke), so pellet burners struggle to produce enough smoke at high temperatures. Trying to smoke at higher temps is why (IMHO), people sometimes complain about the amount of smoke they get with their pellet smokers and resort to adding things like smoke tubes. I recognize that everyone has their own view of how to use a smoker, and a pellet burner can be very versatile (you can get one hot enough for pizza, or to sear steaks, etc.), but they just won't produce good smoke at high temps.

Note that I probably don't use smokers like most people. We use a smoker to smoke food - and don't expect it to cook most things all the way through or to sear food. We are happy to grill/broil ribs/steaks/chops as a last step after smoking to crisp them up. I foil up ribs to roast them, but don't use the smoker for that (once you foil up, the smoker is just an oven that is expensive to run).

 

[David Maita]

Thanks for the info!!

 

[jedoran]

I did however, place an external probe at the top, middle, and bottom racks to compare it to the actual and it will calm a lot of nerves.

What was the temp variation? I've got a week old 7 Series (the big one, 7.1 cu. ft.) and I've been having huge problems with temp variation. I know I shouldn't trust the meat probe, but I stuck it in there dangling between the racks and was reading between 50 and 150(!!!!) degrees short of the "actual" temp on the board. I'm trying to smoke 40 lbs. of wings on it at a time at a restaurant and I've put out some garbage trying to get this thing straightened out. Not going to be happy if I need a new fan or thermostat.

 

[yahoot]

What was the temp variation? I've got a week old 7 Series (the big one, 7.1 cu. ft.) and I've been having huge problems with temp variation.

What did you have it set at? If you set it at lowest smoke, it runs at the lowest temp it can to not go out, so you will get pretty wide swings. Try bumping it up to 150 to get more temp consistency.

See my may 29 post and Tulsa Jeff's in this thread about temp swings. 100 is a little wide, but 50 is not unusual, even on a commercial oven. Try testing the ovens in your kitchen with an accurate electronic thermometer. You will be surprised (we certainly were, first time we did it).

Remember that a pellet smoker takes longer to react than an electric or gas burner. On electric or gas, when the thermostat signals for more heat, the heat response is almost instant. On a pellet rig, the signal tells the auger to turn, which drops pellets, which have to catch fire/smolder before they actually start producing heat. That takes a minute or two. Also, at very low temp, adding pellets actually causes the temp to drop a little until they catch (new fuel has to heat up) - just like it does in a stick burner burning very small.

Also, are you trying to finish wings in the smoker (serve from the smoker)? That is not easy at volume. We tried it on several types of smokers and gave up. We now smoke things like chicken (esp. wings) for flavor, then finish on the grill or broiler (tighten them up and crisp the skin). Much more consistent product - but that is just our experience.

 

[jedoran]

What did you have it set at? If you set it at lowest smoke, it runs at the lowest temp it can to not go out, so you will get pretty wide swings. Try bumping it up to 150 to get more temp consistency.

See my may 29 post and Tulsa Jeff's in this thread about temp swings. 100 is a little wide, but 50 is not unusual, even on a commercial oven. Try testing the ovens in your kitchen with an accurate electronic thermometer. You will be surprised (we certainly were, first time we did it).

Remember that a pellet smoker takes longer to react than an electric or gas burner. On electric or gas, when the thermostat signals for more heat, the heat response is almost instant. On a pellet rig, the signal tells the auger to turn, which drops pellets, which have to catch fire/smolder before they actually start producing heat. That takes a minute or two. Also, at very low temp, adding pellets actually causes the temp to drop a little until they catch (new fuel has to heat up) - just like it does in a stick burner burning very small.

Also, are you trying to finish wings in the smoker (serve from the smoker)? That is not easy at volume. We tried it on several types of smokers and gave up. We now smoke things like chicken (esp. wings) for flavor, then finish on the grill or broiler (tighten them up and crisp the skin). Much more consistent product - but that is just our experience.

I just got off my second half-hour call with pellet boss. Their only explanation is that I am overloading the racks and restricting airflow. I am upgrading from a 40" electric Masterbuilt that I'd smoke 20 lbs. of wings on no prob (approx. 1000 sq. in. rack space.) The large 7 series has close to 2000 sq. inches of rack space, so I've mistakenly assumed that I could cook twice as many wings at a time. In theory, if blocking air flow is the case, I should be cranking very hot air circulating around below the bottom rack, but I'm still only reading in the low 200s on their own probe a good 4 inches above the water pan while it's reading 350 on the front.

I won't know if that diagnosis is currect until I run a test with 20 lbs of product instead of 40 tomorrow with my own thermometer to moniter temps. Will update then with results.

In regards to how I'm finishing my wings, I was doing them about 3:15 at 225 on my masterbuilt elctric until I had a super easy bone pull on the flats, chilling down, then finishing in a pizza oven for about 5 mins til I hit 165 again. Got a good sizzle and okay skin crisp while maintaining great juiciness that way. With soaked chips and a bit of water in the Masterbuilt pan, the wings were ideal for finishing in the oven, since the skin had some give, the juices were retained. I do worry that when the Pit Boss is working correctly it will actually dry out my skin too much (as it has been so far.)

 

[yahoot]

I am anxious to hear what the Danson guys say.

A couple of thoughts -
In a masterbuilt, you basically have an electric oven with a smolder tray, so you are really baking the wings for 3:15. In a pellet smoker, there is a fan circulating the air, so it is more like a convection oven and can dry the skin more.
What temp are you running the pit boss? same 225?

For chicken, we brine, then toss in a touch of oil to keep the skin from drying too much (and makes them crisp up nice when they hit the broiler/grill). We usually smoke at about 175 for 60-90 min, then move to the oven at 225-250 (shooting for the same kind of bone pull you mention), chill (if not immediate use), then broil or grill to finish. Its a few extra steps (one reason I don't like doing chicken!), but incredible chicken. We do a pork chop essentially the same way (without the oven step).

If you want to try tinkering with your masterbuilt while you work out the pit boss situation, you can get the masterbuilt cold smoke attachment for about $60-70. It fits most masterbuilt electrics. You can see it here https://masterbuilt.com/product/20070112-electric-slow-smoker-2 . Secret is - it works as a hot smoker, not just as a cold smoker. It runs on chips (not pellets). Fill it up, turn it on, and it puts out a TON of smoke (smoke quality is better if you run it for a while, then turn it off and let it smolder). Make sure you open the top vents to let the smoke out (don't want the creosote to condense in the oven). VASTLY better than the little smolder tray.

 

[jedoran]

So after another long chat with customer service after the door nearly blew off the 7 series on me, the nice lady in support determined that I likely had a fan issue. I had noticed the smoke wasn't really circulating even with no product in there. They went ahead and sent me a new fan and a whole new control board for the unit. I installed yesterday (NOT a quick swap by the way) and will be firing it up tomorrow with a 20 lb load of wings to see if the performance has improved. Hopefully it does, if not I'm stuck with a pretty useless $700 door stop for my needs.

Will update once it's fired up tomorrow!

I am anxious to hear what the Danson guys say.

A couple of thoughts -
In a masterbuilt, you basically have an electric oven with a smolder tray, so you are really baking the wings for 3:15. In a pellet smoker, there is a fan circulating the air, so it is more like a convection oven and can dry the skin more.
What temp are you running the pit boss? same 225?

For chicken, we brine, then toss in a touch of oil to keep the skin from drying too much (and makes them crisp up nice when they hit the broiler/grill). We usually smoke at about 175 for 60-90 min, then move to the oven at 225-250 (shooting for the same kind of bone pull you mention), chill (if not immediate use), then broil or grill to finish. Its a few extra steps (one reason I don't like doing chicken!), but incredible chicken. We do a pork chop essentially the same way (without the oven step).

If you want to try tinkering with your masterbuilt while you work out the pit boss situation, you can get the masterbuilt cold smoke attachment for about $60-70. It fits most masterbuilt electrics. You can see it here https://masterbuilt.com/product/20070112-electric-slow-smoker-2 . Secret is - it works as a hot smoker, not just as a cold smoker. It runs on chips (not pellets). Fill it up, turn it on, and it puts out a TON of smoke (smoke quality is better if you run it for a while, then turn it off and let it smolder). Make sure you open the top vents to let the smoke out (don't want the creosote to condense in the oven). VASTLY better than the little smolder tray.

 

[big nut brewer]

What do you folks think about smoking bacon in these rigs? What temp does the smoke setting run at?

 

[weev]

What do you folks think about smoking bacon in these rigs? What temp does the smoke setting run at?

In mine it runs around 140 but I haven't smoked regular bacon. I have made Canadian bacon a few times and it turns out great

 

[jedoran]

So after another long chat with customer service after the door nearly blew off the 7 series on me, the nice lady in support determined that I likely had a fan issue. I had noticed the smoke wasn't really circulating even with no product in there. They went ahead and sent me a new fan and a whole new control board for the unit. I installed yesterday (NOT a quick swap by the way) and will be firing it up tomorrow with a 20 lb load of wings to see if the performance has improved. Hopefully it does, if not I'm stuck with a pretty useless $700 door stop for my needs.

Will update once it's fired up tomorrow!

Update:

After swapping out the fan and control board, my 7 series (7.1 cu. ft) still performed exactly as it did before with a 20 lb. load of wings, an amount that should not be restricting air flow at all. I was at the $700 doorstop stage at that point.

After looking at the water pan for a while, I started wondering if that was the issue, the combination of that huge amount of restriction combined with the restriction of 6 racks of wings.

I swapped out the huge waterpan for a stainless steel bowl filled with water sitting on top of the flame tamer, and sure enough, my problems went away. Oven thermometer sitting just above the halfway point in the cabinet was reading only about 10 degrees short of the grill's thermostat probe. It sure looks like the problem with smoking anything that covers serious square inches in the smoker lies with the air restriction from the water pan, the fan just doesn't blow hard enough to circulate the air with both those restricting factors.

After making the swap, the unit is definitely cranking away, I'm actually trying my wing cook at 200 as going at 225 combined with the increased convection effect cooked them wayyyyy faster than my masterbuilt unit at 225.

I'm going to go ahead and say the fan on this unit is underpowered for the cabinet size due to that water pan. It may be just fine for a couple large cuts of meat, but it can't handle 20 lbs. of chicken wings used as instructed out of the box. That water pan seriously needs to be redesigned/the fan upgraded.

 

[CooterQ]

Just bought the 5 series this past weekend. When assembling I did have trouble squaring up the door, but shimmed it with some small washers and it’s ok now. On the first cook the control screen wrapped from the heat (225-275) and got grease between the screen. I contacted customer support on a Sunday afternoon and the call lasted about 5 minutes and they shipped me out a new control panel on Monday morning. It is apparently a common issue because they never hesitated to send a new panel or questioned me me at all. I’ve done 3 cooks so far. I agree with jedoran that the water pan is too big and restricts air flow. When I smoked 3 racks of babybacks they turned out perfect. But when I smoked 40 chicken quarters it seemed like it was almost too much for it. So I made the mistake of turning up the temp to try to get the quarters done quicker and caught the smoker on fire because of all the grease from the chicken. Luckily I was standing right there and nothing was damaged. So with all that being said, I’m overall satisfied with the smoker, especially with their customer service. Just need to use it more to master how it cooks.

 

[yahoot]

Update:

After swapping out the fan and control board, my 7 series (7.1 cu. ft) still performed exactly as it did before with a 20 lb. load of wings, an amount that should not be restricting air flow at all. I was at the $700 doorstop stage at that point.

After looking at the water pan for a while, I started wondering if that was the issue, the combination of that huge amount of restriction combined with the restriction of 6 racks of wings.

I swapped out the huge waterpan for a stainless steel bowl filled with water sitting on top of the flame tamer, and sure enough, my problems went away. Oven thermometer sitting just above the halfway point in the cabinet was reading only about 10 degrees short of the grill's thermostat probe. It sure looks like the problem with smoking anything that covers serious square inches in the smoker lies with the air restriction from the water pan, the fan just doesn't blow hard enough to circulate the air with both those restricting factors.

After making the swap, the unit is definitely cranking away, I'm actually trying my wing cook at 200 as going at 225 combined with the increased convection effect cooked them wayyyyy faster than my masterbuilt unit at 225.

I'm going to go ahead and say the fan on this unit is underpowered for the cabinet size due to that water pan. It may be just fine for a couple large cuts of meat, but it can't handle 20 lbs. of chicken wings used as instructed out of the box. That water pan seriously needs to be redesigned/the fan upgraded.

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this. I wanted to see how far we could push it, so we did 40 pounds of chicken breasts on a 5 series. Smoking at about 180, vent wide open. Started having the exact same problems you mentioned with temperature differential. Pulled the water tray and replaced with a little metal baking pan (from the dollar store) and things worked much better.

Other issue I noticed was that with that much chicken (and associated grease), I had to wipe off the ceiling of the unit after a couple of hours because grease was condensing and picking up black residue (ash?). Didn't want it dripping on the chicken, so I just wiped it off with a paper towel. Only time we have seen that problem - so I am assuming it was due to the huge load.

 

[jedoran]

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this. I wanted to see how far we could push it, so we did 40 pounds of chicken breasts on a 5 series. Smoking at about 180, vent wide open. Started having the exact same problems you mentioned with temperature differential. Pulled the water tray and replaced with a little metal baking pan (from the dollar store) and things worked much better.

Other issue I noticed was that with that much chicken (and associated grease), I had to wipe off the ceiling of the unit after a couple of hours because grease was condensing and picking up black residue (ash?). Didn't want it dripping on the chicken, so I just wiped it off with a paper towel. Only time we have seen that problem - so I am assuming it was due to the huge load.

Yeah, it just can’t handle that much product on the racks. I was getting better airflow with a smaller pan, but had one too many grease fires for the same reason. I put the factory pan back in, smoke on a lower temp for an hour or so, then have to crank it up to 300+ and do a lot of rack rotation to get any effective cooking done. It’s a shame it can’t match the quality of my MES when I cook like that, but sometimes I just need the volume.

 

[Novice1]

So I'm going to ask a potentially stupid question. I just got a Copperhead 3 series in September. Never smoked anything before in my life, so fairly clueless, but can obviously read up about what to do. Once I finally got it put together and started trying a few things out, I'm confused on what's going on. The first thing I smoked was a pork loin. Since the 3 is small I cut it in half. Used one half for chops and pulled the other half. Overall was pretty easy and the smoker worked as expected. It was a coolish day and a little windy. It took longer than I expected at 225 but attributed it to the wind. However, the next thing I smoked (again at 225) was a couple whole chickens. From everything I've seen, it should have been somewhere around a 3 hour cook. It took 7-8 hours!! It turned out perfectly good, but what I thought I was having for a late dinner, I was dealing with at 1-2am. Obviously with this kind of pellet smoker there's only so much I can screw up. I know they have a temperature fluctuation but have never heard of them affecting cook time since it should average out. Anyone have that kind of experience where the overall cook time was drastically longer than it should have been? I'm afraid to even smoke something else because I don't know how long it's going to take. Thanks.

 

[Winterrider]

I was wondering if there was any insulation in the 5 or 7? The doors and sides seem like just 2 separate pieces of sheeting. I may be totally wrong. They do look like nice units.