Mr T's "Smoked Cheese From Go To Show" w/ Q- View

[4pogo7]

Thanks Dave!

 

[driedstick]

Great update Tom!! I just opened some of the cheese I smoked with Orange wood---BINGO!!!!! I found my new go to wood for cheese,,,The pack I opened was smoked on 11-8 so it did mellow a while but I used the mailbox also,, smoked for about 6hrs I think,,, I will have to go back and check my notes - Also the flavor was white garlic cheddar 

 

DS

 

[redheelerdog]

 
Great update Tom!! I just opened some of the cheese I smoked with Orange wood---BINGO!!!!! I found my new go to wood for cheese,,,The pack I opened was smoked on 11-8 so it did mellow a while but I used the mailbox also,, smoked for about 6hrs I think,,, I will have to go back and check my notes - Also the flavor was white garlic cheddar 

 

DS

Orange wood? They have Orange trees in ID? LOL!

Do you use an AMAZN and pellets with the Orange?  Interesting and sounds really good.

I have been nibbbling this weekend on some Apple smoked cheddar, vintage 10/17/15 and it is great!

 

[driedstick]

 
Orange wood? They have Orange trees in ID? LOL!

Do you use an AMAZN and pellets with the Orange?  Interesting and sounds really good.

I have been nibbbling this weekend on some Apple smoked cheddar, vintage 10/17/15 and it is great!

Actually orange pellets, yep use them in the amps,,,I opened some back from March of this yr and it was flippin awesome!! I have some from 2013 that I am waiting to get at.

Going to go with some pellets from Todd next. 

IMG_20151107_161200380_HDR[1].jpg

• driedstick
• Nov 9, 2015

 A full smoker is a happy smoker

DS

 

[redheelerdog]

Where did you get the orange? I want to try it. - Thanks!

 

[driedstick]

 
Where did you get the orange? I want to try it. - Thanks!

Local BBQ supply store here locally,,, You may want to see if Todd has any,, or order online,, do a google search,,,I know this company has a online store

DS

 

[oregon smoker]

Redhealerdog,

Here is All Delights BBQ home page, you can order direct, only orange supply I have found besides Amazon,

Home Page,  http://bbqrsdelight.com/

Orange Pellet page,   http://store.bbqrsdelight.com/pd-orange---1lb-bag-pellets.cfm

Tom

 

[redheelerdog]

 Quote:

 
Local BBQ supply store here locally,,, You may want to see if Todd has any,, or order online,, do a google search,,,I know this company has a online store

DS

 
Redhealerdog,

Here is All Delights BBQ home page, you can order direct, only orange supply I have found besides Amazon,

Home Page,  http://bbqrsdelight.com/

Orange Pellet page,   http://store.bbqrsdelight.com/pd-orange---1lb-bag-pellets.cfm

Tom

Thanks boys!

 

[biggqwesty]

So boys I bit the bullet and bought some cheese wax..
I personally wanted black lol but wife said red.. lol
So it's worked well. Smoked this morning on pecan
Then on with the double boiler and wax bowl.
Once it was melted on with the first coat using a brush.
Omg it's blood red and a pain to get streak free.
Next time I'm just going to get the first coat on and then dip them to get the smooth surface. See how that goes..
Anyway they have come out good but a bit rough.
Now it's time to store and wait
http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/B... Uploads/20151212_145437_zpsayzgzm4k.jpg.html
http://s1272.photobucket.com/user/B...ads/FB_IMG_1449896940139_zpspyddaivw.jpg.html

 

[mr t 59874]

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your first wax and thank you for contributing to the thread. See lead doesn't taste bad at all does it?  I can tell by your rig that your whole family are adventurist.

A couple reminders.  Do not toss the wax as it can be used over and over.  Just clean it and add it to your fresh wax.  You have gone the extra mile to produce a fine product. I see one tweek you may want to consider to help ensure you have a quality product on your next run.   Please read below.

The following is a segment taken from the OP .

Question:  At what temperature should I heat the wax?

Answer:  Germs are killed at 180°F - 82°C. To prevent mold, heat wax to 225°F - 107°C - 240°F - 116°C or the wax manufacturer's suggested temperature.  BE CAREFUL if taken too high, the waxes flash point may be reached.  To prevent pinholes, apply three coats by dipping or brushing the wax on.  To prevent melting the first coat of wax, apply the additional coats at a lower temp, 160°F - 71°C.

Note:  1 - Use a designated pan to melt wax in, not a good one. 

            2 - Suggest using a hot plate rather than a gas stove for obvious reasons.

Question:   Can I use a double boiler to melt the wax?

Answer:   Not for the first coating. Water boils at 212°F - 100°C at sea level and generally decreases 2°F - -17°C per 1000 ft as elevation increases.  Therefore, the desirable temperatures cannot be reached. 

 Lead doesn't taste bad at all now does it?​

Have fun and enjoy your cheese, you have worked hard for it.

Tom

 

[dr k]

 
               1                  1               

                      A piece and slices of three-year-old smoked cheddar

     Mr.T’s

       “Smoked Cheese, From Go to Show”

    Those of us who smoke cheese enjoy that little something extra, and smoking cheese is fun and easy to do.  Hard cheeses are the easiest and with the proper equipment smoked soft cheeses can add that something spectacular to any meal.

  While going to the extra effort to smoke that favorite cheese.  Why not add another dimension and age your own cheese and save some really big bucks at the same time.

  The youngest cheese that I smoke is a minimum of two years old, the oldest and best cheese I have ever eaten is, my 12 year old hickory smoked Limburger, sadly not much of that is left.

  There is a ton of controversy when it comes to aging, smoking and preserving cheese.  The following are the techniques that I have used for many years; you are welcome to glean from it what you like.

 Hopefully this will encourage someone to age, smoke and preserve their own cheese.

Mr. T
 

FAQ’s

Question: Can I age store bought cheese?

Answer: Yes, I normally will buy cheese in the cryovac package, 2 to 5 Lbs. the larger the better.   

                                                        60 Lbs. Aging Cheese

2



Question: Will it age in the package?

Answer:  Yes it will.  Make sure there are no leaks that would allow liquids to escape and contaminates to enter. Waxed cheeses although will age better. A very dry cheese can age for years, while moist cheeses will simply get old.

Question:  At what temperature should I store the cheese?

Answer:  Store hard cheeses at temperatures between 70°F - 21°C & 35°F - 2°C. The ideal aging temp is 52°F - 11°C  to 56°f - 13°C.   My hard cheeses are kept at a minimum of 45°F - 7°C.  The closer to 70°F - 21°C, the faster it will age. Softer cheeses should be stored in the cooler range of 50°F - 10°C to 35°F - 2°C.

Question:  How long can I age my cheese?

Answer:  I don’t know of any limits in time.  The longest I have aged a cheese is the 12-year-old Limburger.  I have read that some have aged Cheddar for 25 years and more.  Cheddar’s flavor becomes increasingly sharp; its firm texture becomes more granular and crumbly with age.  Cheese never stops aging.  Left long enough, mild cheddar will turn into extra sharp.  A semi – hard/hard cheese will never spoil as long as it is vacuum packed and refrigerated.  It gets better with age also.

Ready to be Smoked

3   



Question:  How much should I smoke at one time?

Answer:   Smoke according to the size of the block.  I smoke cheese as we need it.    Cut your blocks into sections approximately the size of a quarter pound stick of butter for better smoke penetration. A one pound block may be cut in half, while a two or five pound block will need to be sectioned for good smoke absorption.

4



Question:  At what temperatures should I smoke?
Answer:  Consider that cheese will begin to change its texture at 80°F - 27°C so; a true cold smoke will be needed.   The definition of a true cold smoke is 90°F - 32°C or less.    To preserve the quality of the cheese, mine is pulled from the smoker if the internal smoker temperature reaches 70°F -to 75° then, if needed, continue when the elements are cooler.   The smoking time is continued from when it was pulled from the smoker.  Do not smoke below 35°F - 2°C. Hard, semi-hard, soft and cream cheeses may be smoked at 55°F - 13°C.

Note: You can take the cheese on up to the melting point if you like and it may still be desirable to your taste, but the quality of the cheese will be lost.
 

Question:  How long should I smoke the cheese?

Answer:  Only experience will determine this as it really depends on your taste.

  I usually will smoke the hard cheeses for two hours depending on the density of the smoke and type of wood used. The harder the cheese the more dense smoke it can take.  If it is a caramel color you are looking for, a dense smoke for 5 hours may be required.  Depending on the type and texture of your cheese, monitor the smoke as a lighter smoke will sometimes infuse a more desirable flavor than a heavy dense smoke will.  Cream or blues will take a much shorter smoking time than the harder cheeses. Some softer cheeses may be done in half an hour.

   Learn to keep good records.  In your records note the type of cheese, ambient temperature, internal smoker temperature, type and amount of wood, the density of the smoke and, of course, the time, color and taste.

Ready for Smoker

5



Question: What woods should I use?

Answer:   Hickory, apple, cherry and alder among others work very well.

Question:  Okay it’s smoked. Now what?

Answer:  Place in a zip type bag leaving a small opening to keep condensation from forming and allow it to set on a rack at room temperature for a day.  If it is going to be consumed soon, wrap in a cling type wrap and put in fridge or store at previously discussed temperatures. It is best to let rest at room temperature for two to three weeks to allow the smoke to permeate the cheese. Depending on the type of cheese, if it is going to be kept for a few months, coat it with olive or vegetable oil and place on a rack in a container and refrigerate.  Reapply oil every two weeks.  A damp paper towel may be kept in the container to provide added moisture.  After slicing some for use, reapply oil.  The oil will help keep mold from forming on the outside.  If the cheese is going to be aged further, it is waxed and stored as usual.  Of course, it can be vacuum sealed also.

Question:   Can I freeze my cheese before or after smoking?

Answer:    It’s my opinion that, the quality of the cheese is seriously compromised by freezing.

Question:  What cheeses can be waxed?

Answer:  Only the hard cheeses should be waxed, Cheddar, Swiss, Colby, etc. The less moisture you have in your cheese the better for waxing.

Question:  Can I use paraffin to wax cheese?

Answer:  No.  Paraffin is not pliable and will crack and break in time allowing contaminates in and molds to form. Use only wax designated as cheese wax. It will remain pliable and allow your cheese to breathe which aids in aging. It will also take a much higher heat when melting which when applied, helps in preventing mold.

Question:  At what temperature should I heat the wax?

Answer:  Germs are killed at 180°F - 82°C. To prevent mold, heat wax to 225°F - 107°C - 240°F - 116°C or the wax manufacturer's suggested temperature.  BE CAREFUL if taken too high, the waxes flash point may be reached.  To prevent pinholes, apply three coats by dipping or brushing the wax on.  To prevent melting the first coat of wax, apply the additional coats at a lower temp, 160°F - 71°C.

Note:  1 - Use a designated pan to melt wax in, not a good one. 

            2 - Suggest using a hot plate rather than a gas stove for obvious reasons.

Question:   Can I use a double boiler to melt the wax?

Answer:   Not for the first coating. Water boils at 212°F - 100°C at sea level and generally decreases 2°F - -17°C per 1000 ft as elevation increases.  Therefore, the desirable temperatures cannot be reached. 

Waxed Cheddar

6



Question:  Where can I get Cheese wax?

Answer:  Cheese making suppliers will have it or, it may be purchased on line.

Vacuum Packed

7



The below cheeses are what is kept on the kitchen counter for short time use.  Note the aged 4-year-old cheddar has been on the counter for three months, no mold.

8



Question: How is cheese properly served?

Answer:   Number one rule: Do not eat cheese cold or straight from the refrigerator. The cold temperature hinders the natural flavors and fragrance  of the cheese. The aromatic and complex flavors of cheese don't really begin to appear until the cheese is at room temperature.

Cheese is composed largely of fat.  Since fat means flavor, the goal is to amplify it as much as possible. When fat molecules are cold, they contract, when they warm, they relax, allowing a greater perception of flavor.

Pull your cheese out of the refrigerator at least an hour to a hour and a half before serving.  To keep your cheese from drying out, never unwrap your cheese when you bring it out of the refrigerator.  If serving waxed cheese at room temperature, wait until ready to serve before removing wax or if wrapped, unwrapping.

Be careful, though, especially in the summer months, if you warm up the cheese too much, it'll start to sweat and melt in unappetizing ways. Try to keep it at or around 72°.

To cut any cheese properly—hard or soft —use a good chef's knife or a good all-purpose utility knife. To cut very soft, cheese such as chevre cleanly, use a length of stretched dental floss.

 Serving cheese after the main course, prior to or in place of dessert, adds an elegant touch to casual dinners.  If served before dinner, with cocktails, remember that cheeses can be filling.  Serve in limited quantities and variety. 

If serving more than one type of cheese, provide separate knives for each cheese. Do not overcrowd the serving tray, as guest will need room to slice the cheeses.
 

Question:   What do I do if I find mold on my cheese?

Answer:    The mold on hard or semi-soft cheeses may be washed with a scrub brush or, cut away and re-waxed or oiled.

 

Soft cheeses, such as cottage cheese, cream cheese, and ricotta cheese, that have mold  should be discarded. The same goes for any kind of cheese that's shredded, crumbled or sliced.

With these cheeses, the mold can send threads throughout the cheese. In addition, harmful bacteria, such as listeria, brucella, salmonella and E. coli, can grow along with the mold.

Mold generally can't penetrate far into hard and semisoft cheeses, such as cheddar, colby, Parmesan and Swiss. So you can cut away the moldy part and eat the rest of the cheese. Cut off at least 1 inch (2.5 centimeters) around and below the moldy spot. Be sure to keep the knife out of the mold so it doesn't contaminate other parts of the cheese.

Of course, not all molds pose a risk. In fact, some types of mold are used to make cheeses, such as Brie and Camembert. These molds are safe to eat.

If you're not sure what type of cheese you have or what to do if it grows mold, the safe course is to discard it.

Question: Why does my cheese taste bitter right out of the smoker?

Answer:   
It could be as simple as applying too much smoke. It's imperative that you monitor the color and density of your smoke as there are many outside influences that can change both. Take the time that others smoke with a grain of salt, use it possibly as a guide but, not knowing the color and density of their smoke, their info is mostly useless.  And they may have a bitter taste out of the smoker themselves.

Remember, regardless the smoke generator you are using, the whiter the smoke, the more unforgiving it is as shorter smoking times are required.

Creosote = Bitter    Your smoke is depositing too much creosote onto the cheese. Suggest using a different smoke delivery system such as the ones pictured below. Using an smoke generator inside a cast-iron stove which is used as a heat sink and collects most of the creosote. The smoke then travels through a 10ft section of 3 inch stove pipe to the product chamber. Other smoke delivery systems can be used but will not be discussed on this forum.

An attempt was made in the following thread to demonstrate how to significantly prevent a bitter taste on a product from occurring. You will notice a great difference between placing a smoke generator inside the product chamber/smoker and placing it in an external firebox and piping the smoke to the chamber. Piping the smoke to a chamber produces a much cleaner smoke. The longer the run from the firebox to the chamber, the cleaner the smoke will be, meaning less creosote deposits. AMNPS & Smoke Daddy Myths?

000_0027.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Feb 14, 2015

 

Question:   Can I get this type of cheese on-line?

Answer:   Yes and here is a link to get you started.

                   https://www.wisconsincheesemart.com/cheese/

             Mr. T's  Christmas 2015 Gift Cheese - Aged - Smoked - Waxed

                                                      03 / 27 / 2015

000_0241.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

                                                 3.5-year-old Cheddar

000_0251.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

It took 20 hours of light white smoke to reach the desired color. Used Pitmaster pellets with AMNPS 

in a remote iron stove 8 feet away.  Highest temperature reached during smoke, 68.5°.

000_0253.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

20 hours of smoke compared to non-smoked.  The streaks in the cheese were caused by the

1/4 cup of moisture that escaped from the aging cheese.

000_0257.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

Pie pan used for dipping.

000_0254.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

First coat of wax applied at 240° to deter mold growth.  Additional coats applied at 160°.

000_0255.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

Info tags applied to still wet second coat.

000_0256.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Mar 27, 2015

After three coats of wax, it is now ready for further aging or until the Holidays.

Note:   The cheese rested overnight before waxing.  A taste test revealed a very mild non-bitter taste.

            I cannot over-emphasize the importance of using a remote smoke generator in order to cool and clean the

            smoke prior to coming into contact with the cheese. It eliminates much if not all of any bitter taste.

Additional Information:

Understanding Smoke Management

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/139474/understanding-smoke-management

My Cold Smoking Options

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/123840/my-cold-smoking-options-w-q-

Moldy Cheese

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-and-nutrition/AN01024

Listeria in soft cheese made with unpasteurized milk such as queso fresco, Feta, Brie and Camembert.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/listeria/

view

                                                            Tillamook Cheese

              Type                                              Aged                                             Uses

Medium Sharp Cheddar                           60 days                        snack, sandwich, main dish

Sharp Cheddar                                    Nine + months                        appetizer or main dish

Reserve Extra Sharp                                2 years                                    gourmet side dishes

                                                                                compliments smoked salmon and  sauces

Vintage White Extra sharp Cheddar        2 + years                      companion to fruit and wine

Vintage Medium White Cheddar            100 + days                             well with fruit and wine

Monterey Jack                                                                                           topping on any dish

Pepper Jack                                                                 southwest recipes, snack with crackers

Swiss                                                                                                                       burgers and soup

Colby                                                                         sandwiches appetizer with crackers or bread

This thread came out the same month I joined SMF.  I picked up a three lb. block of mild white cheddar and five lb. block of extra sharp cheddar both cryovac.  They have been aging in my crisper drawer since 12.2.13.  I have another 5lb'er of mild cheddar at my parents in their spare fridge crisper drawer since 12.5.14.  I guess I'm due for another block because I want to buy one five lb'er a year and age the newer purchased blocks of cheese in their cool basement or move them all to their basement ASAP. 

-Kurt  

 

[mr t 59874]

 
This thread came out the same month I joined SMF.  I picked up a three lb. block of mild white cheddar and five lb. block of extra sharp cheddar both cryovac.  They have been aging in my crisper drawer since 12.2.13.  I have another 5lb'er of mild cheddar at my parents in their spare fridge crisper drawer since 12.5.14.  I guess I'm due for another block because I want to buy one five lb'er a year and age the newer purchased blocks of cheese in their cool basement or move them all to their basement ASAP. 

-Kurt  

Good planning Kurt. Your mild cheddar is most likely leaning toward extra sharp by now. This is going to be an exceptional cheese. Once you have your smoke delivery system perfected to reduce any bitter taste, consider waxing it for further storage.

Tom

 

[terry56]

I have finished smoking some 2 year old cheddar. I am going to put it in the fridge wrapped in Saran for a couple of weeks to let it mellow and the smoke flavour to get all the way through. Is there anything I should do before vacuum packing? Also what temperature do I store it at to let it continue aging?

I'm rather new at this so any and all advise is appreciated.

 

[mr t 59874]

I have finished smoking some 2 year old cheddar. I am going to put it in the fridge wrapped in Saran for a couple of weeks to let it mellow and the smoke flavour to get all the way through. Is there anything I should do before vacuum packing? Also what temperature do I store it at to let it continue aging?

I'm rather new at this so any and all advise is appreciated.

I take it you smoked some extra sharp, that is going to be good. You will be fine with the cling wrap for a short time. There is no reason though it couldn't be vac sealed or waxed now.

Cheddar is best aged at ± 55°. It can be stored at temps between 70° and 35°.

T

 

[mr t 59874]

Edit to the original post includes the following mods.

T

Question:  Why does my cheese taste bitter right out of the smoker?

Answer:   
It could be as simple as applying too much smoke. It's imperative that you monitor the color and density of your smoke as there are many outside influences that can change both. Take the time that others smoke with a grain of salt, use it possibly as a guide but, not knowing the color and density of their smoke, their info is mostly useless.  And they may have a bitter taste out of the smoker themselves.

Remember, regardless the smoke generator you are using, the whiter the smoke, the more unforgiving it is as shorter smoking times are required.

Creosote = Bitter    Your smoke is depositing too much creosote onto the cheese. Suggest using a different smoke delivery system such as the ones pictured below. Using an smoke generator inside a cast-iron stove which is used as a heat sink and collects most of the creosote. The smoke then travels through a 10ft section of 3 inch stove pipe to the product chamber. 

An attempt was made in the following threads to demonstrate how to significantly prevent a bitter taste on a product from occurring. You will notice a great difference between placing a smoke generator inside the product chamber/smoker and placing it in an external firebox and piping the smoke to the chamber. Piping the smoke to a chamber produces a much cleaner smoke. The longer the run from the firebox to the chamber, the cleaner the smoke will be, meaning less creosote deposits. AMNPS & Smoke Daddy Myths?  -  Cleaning up your act - clean smoke is delicious smoke!

Now, how do we replicate the smokers of old in today’s environment? We start by using a remote firebox and pipe the smoke produced by your smoke generator of choice to the product chamber, which could be your smoker or a cardboard box, whatever you want to use. To cool the smoke as much as possible, the firebox is also being used as a heat sink, the more mass the better. The pipe used (preferably single wall stovepipe) to transport the smoke will also act as a heat sink so the longer it is, the better the results.

 Examples:



The above is an example using an Smoke Daddy Big Kahuna smoke generator in conjunction with a wood stove leading to a 22cf product chamber. 

000_0027.JPG

• mr t 59874
• Feb 14, 2015

The above is example using a tray type pellet smoke generator inside a wood stove leading to a 22cf product chamber.

View media item 459259
The above example uses a tray type smoke generator inside a mailbox feeding an MES.

View media item 459449
The above example is using a MES cold smoke attachment feeding an MES.

 

[hillbilly jim]

Mr. T, question, Sir:

In your FAQs, you said "... It is best to let rest at room temperature for two to three weeks to allow the smoke to permeate the cheese." I have a Foodsaver machine. Should I vacuum bag it toward the purpose of letting it rest at room temp or leave it open to breathe?

Thank you, Sir!

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
Mr. T, question, Sir:

In your FAQs, you said "... It is best to let rest at room temperature for two to three weeks to allow the smoke to permeate the cheese." I have a Foodsaver machine. Should I vacuum bag it toward the purpose of letting it rest at room temp or leave it open to breathe?

Thank you, Sir!

Mr T has not been active for a few months...Vac Pac the cheese. Most will dry out uncovered. Fresh/Soft cheese, Cream, Mozz, Feta, should be refrigerated. Sliceable Semisoft cheeses will be fine at room temp...JJ

 

[hillbilly jim]

Got it. Thank you, Chef!

 

[daveomak]

I tightly wrap my cheese in saran before vac-packing for easy removal later...  I put several hunks of cheese in one bag...   open, remove and reseal...   saves on bags....

 

[bauchjw]

You can vacuum seal his cheese as soon as any moisture that may have collected on the cheese has gone away.