MES Rewire Simple Guide - No Back Removal Needed!!!

[tallbm]

I was going to ask how in the world you're getting accurate temps where the food is if your probe is right above the element. But the wood sheet kind of answered that, I guess. That's actually what my problem was - my probe was on the bottom rack, but by my meat was in the middle and ~50f less. I didn't flip my element, but I did put an exhaust dead center on the top and it was wide open the whole time. Maybe I should try half open?
Do you put a drip tray above or below your element? I had a tray on the bottom most rack with the probe underneath. Maybe the tray was reflecting heat back on the probe?

I think my vent is about 70% or more closed. It's pretty stuck and I can only move it once it's hot since that unsticks it some lol. I don't think half open would hurt anything, just don't close it way down.

Similar to dr k's setup I have a foil pan on the bottom rack which protects the heating element. I put a V shaped rack or I just set an MES smoker rack on top of my pan and put the meat on the rack so it's only elevated a little bit from the lower rack's level.

This is what it looks like but these days I just use a MES rack instead of that copper looking rack on the foil pan.
The foil pan would be sitting on my lowest rack in the MES and protects my heating element.

I think your probe and pan are ok but 225F measured at the lowest rack will definitely be closer to 200F at a higher rack. My little board mod to reduce volume helps to trap that heat below without it just having a free path to sprint out the vent. I think if you want to continue your configuration you leave the PID temp prove where you have it and just make sure to have another probe at meat rack level and then just crank up the set temp until your meat rack level is getting 225F.
Just be sure you aren't running over 325F at the lower part of the smoker and if running 325F don't go over 4 hours at that temp. It can handle 4 hours at 325F but the insulation isn't rated to continuously work at temps like that forever.

 

[moussaka]

I think my vent is about 70% or more closed. It's pretty stuck and I can only move it once it's hot since that unsticks it some lol. I don't think half open would hurt anything, just don't close it way down.

Similar to dr k's setup I have a foil pan on the bottom rack which protects the heating element. I put a V shaped rack or I just set an MES smoker rack on top of my pan and put the meat on the rack so it's only elevated a little bit from the lower rack's level.

This is what it looks like but these days I just use a MES rack instead of that copper looking rack on the foil pan.
The foil pan would be sitting on my lowest rack in the MES and protects my heating element.

I think your probe and pan are ok but 225F measured at the lowest rack will definitely be closer to 200F at a higher rack. My little board mod to reduce volume helps to trap that heat below without it just having a free path to sprint out the vent. I think if you want to continue your configuration you leave the PID temp prove where you have it and just make sure to have another probe at meat rack level and then just crank up the set temp until your meat rack level is getting 225F.
Just be sure you aren't running over 325F at the lower part of the smoker and if running 325F don't go over 4 hours at that temp. It can handle 4 hours at 325F but the insulation isn't rated to continuously work at temps like that forever.


View attachment 719365

This makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the clarification.
I have a lot more exploration to do than I thought haha! (I just read through the PID setting topic again as well) I was thinking about just putting the temp probe on a middle rack, but I didn't even think about your point about it running hotter than 325 closer to the element and could potentially lead to issues. I also never thought about having the meat rest on top of the drip tray on the bottom rack - that's a hot tip.
Maybe I leave the PID probe by the element and take readings at each rack to see how it differs. Then I could potentially use the offset setting to adjust to whatever rack I want instead of cranking to some arbitrary number.

For reference, this is what I put on top of mine. So... full open is OPEN. Not like the stock exhausts at all haha.

https://www.amazon.com/Exhaust-Teardrop-Flanged-Damper-Builder/dp/B01LWEQH03

 

[tallbm]

This makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the clarification.
I have a lot more exploration to do than I thought haha! (I just read through the PID setting topic again as well) I was thinking about just putting the temp probe on a middle rack, but I didn't even think about your point about it running hotter than 325 closer to the element and could potentially lead to issues. I also never thought about having the meat rest on top of the drip tray on the bottom rack - that's a hot tip.
Maybe I leave the PID probe by the element and take readings at each rack to see how it differs. Then I could potentially use the offset setting to adjust to whatever rack I want instead of cranking to some arbitrary number.

For reference, this is what I put on top of mine. So... full open is OPEN. Not like the stock exhausts at all haha.

View attachment 719429

https://www.amazon.com/Exhaust-Teardrop-Flanged-Damper-Builder/dp/B01LWEQH03

I'm glad all this info is helping out!
Yeah there is still a little tinkering to do. The rewire + the PID = a whole new smoker. With any new smoker there is the period of tweaking and working it to see how everything goes and then boom you rock and roll knowing how to make everything happen with your setup.

I feel leaving the PID at the lowest rack to read temps there and then using other probes to understand what the racks are doing is totally the way to go.
You can use the offset if you like and it should work for you. I do so many different types of smokes that just let the extra probes at rack level tell me what's up. With the "board mod" these days I get pretty consistent temps in the area under the board so I can rely upon things to cook pretty closely across the bottom 2 racks.

Keep at it and let us know how it goes. You will be rolling along smoothy soon with a beast of a smoker! :D

 

[moussaka]

Alright... I still feel like either I'm doing something wrong or something is wrong with my system. Maybe I'm just dumb. Also wondering if I need to just break out into my own thread? I'm starting to feel like I'm clogging this up with troubleshooting, but maybe it'll help others down the road?
I smoked 2 butts and 3 racks of ribs yesterday. I wanted to do them at 250-275. I could only get it up to 225 at rack level after much tinkering. If numbering racks from the bottom up, on 1 I had drip pan (Auber probe underneath), 2 had butts (probe underneath), 3 just had a probe the first 5-6 hours, 4 empty.
The butts were on, by themselves, for 5.5 hours then I transferred them to the oven to finish. I put 2 ribs on rack 2 and 1 on rack 3. Throughout all this, the outside of the smoker was never too hot to touch it.
Everything turned out great, but the first few hours were a nightmare trying to get proper temp at the food rack level. At one point, I turned up to ~440 (it never actually reached that) and that only resulted in temps about 175 at rack level. Then I started messing with offset. I gradually starting going negative on it until I got to -90. This was the only way I could even get to 225 at rack level. I also had to set at 325 (even though it never got there either) for it to consistently stay around 220-225. If I actually set it to 225, it'd stabilize at around 200-210 rack level and never get to 225... The confusing thing is without the offset, it wouldn't budge past a certain level. Then when I started lowering that, it'd start to climb. Which made me think something was wrong with the probe. It didn't feel like a safety limiter issue. You should be able to see in the pic the times I changed offset - it doesn't really illustrate the changing temps at the rack level, but that's where I was seeing the temps finally pushing past 175. Included another pic to see Auber power activity.
I also played with the exhaust. When shut to ~25-50% temps were lower than just having it fully open. When fully open, I immediately saw temps go up a few degrees, which I thought was interesting.
I tested all my probes this morning in boiling water and they all register 212 correctly ±1. I'm going to test the smoker without the Auber today and see what it does (pull the plug if it gets to 300 rack level). Then I'm going to test with the Auber (offset back at 0) to see what happens at rack level when empty. I never really gave it proper testing other than see if it turns on and see if the Auber made it function lol. The test with the smoker by itself will be interesting, a part of me is wondering if I have some kind of resistance that was introduced with my rewire. But that wouldn't really answer why it only climbed after I changed the offset on the Auber...

 

[normanaj]

Alright... I still feel like either I'm doing something wrong or something is wrong with my system. Maybe I'm just dumb. Also wondering if I need to just break out into my own thread? I'm starting to feel like I'm clogging this up with troubleshooting, but maybe it'll help others down the road?
I smoked 2 butts and 3 racks of ribs yesterday. I wanted to do them at 250-275. I could only get it up to 225 at rack level after much tinkering. If numbering racks from the bottom up, on 1 I had drip pan (Auber probe underneath), 2 had butts (probe underneath), 3 just had a probe the first 5-6 hours, 4 empty.
The butts were on, by themselves, for 5.5 hours then I transferred them to the oven to finish. I put 2 ribs on rack 2 and 1 on rack 3. Throughout all this, the outside of the smoker was never too hot to touch it.
Everything turned out great, but the first few hours were a nightmare trying to get proper temp at the food rack level. At one point, I turned up to ~440 (it never actually reached that) and that only resulted in temps about 175 at rack level. Then I started messing with offset. I gradually starting going negative on it until I got to -90. This was the only way I could even get to 225 at rack level. I also had to set at 325 (even though it never got there either) for it to consistently stay around 220-225. If I actually set it to 225, it'd stabilize at around 200-210 rack level and never get to 225... The confusing thing is without the offset, it wouldn't budge past a certain level. Then when I started lowering that, it'd start to climb. Which made me think something was wrong with the probe. It didn't feel like a safety limiter issue. You should be able to see in the pic the times I changed offset - it doesn't really illustrate the changing temps at the rack level, but that's where I was seeing the temps finally pushing past 175. Included another pic to see Auber power activity.
I also played with the exhaust. When shut to ~25-50% temps were lower than just having it fully open. When fully open, I immediately saw temps go up a few degrees, which I thought was interesting.
I tested all my probes this morning in boiling water and they all register 212 correctly ±1. I'm going to test the smoker without the Auber today and see what it does (pull the plug if it gets to 300 rack level). Then I'm going to test with the Auber (offset back at 0) to see what happens at rack level when empty. I never really gave it proper testing other than see if it turns on and see if the Auber made it function lol. The test with the smoker by itself will be interesting, a part of me is wondering if I have some kind of resistance that was introduced with my rewire. But that wouldn't really answer why it only climbed after I changed the offset on the Auber...

My best guess is your setting your Auber at to high a temp and continually tripping the safety limit switch.

What I would suggest is setting the Auber at 250 and place the probe dead center in an empty smoker and see what happens. Monitor with a separate therm also.

 

[dr k]

Alright... I still feel like either I'm doing something wrong or something is wrong with my system. Maybe I'm just dumb. Also wondering if I need to just break out into my own thread? I'm starting to feel like I'm clogging this up with troubleshooting, but maybe it'll help others down the road?
I smoked 2 butts and 3 racks of ribs yesterday. I wanted to do them at 250-275. I could only get it up to 225 at rack level after much tinkering. If numbering racks from the bottom up, on 1 I had drip pan (Auber probe underneath), 2 had butts (probe underneath), 3 just had a probe the first 5-6 hours, 4 empty.
The butts were on, by themselves, for 5.5 hours then I transferred them to the oven to finish. I put 2 ribs on rack 2 and 1 on rack 3. Throughout all this, the outside of the smoker was never too hot to touch it.
Everything turned out great, but the first few hours were a nightmare trying to get proper temp at the food rack level. At one point, I turned up to ~440 (it never actually reached that) and that only resulted in temps about 175 at rack level. Then I started messing with offset. I gradually starting going negative on it until I got to -90. This was the only way I could even get to 225 at rack level. I also had to set at 325 (even though it never got there either) for it to consistently stay around 220-225. If I actually set it to 225, it'd stabilize at around 200-210 rack level and never get to 225... The confusing thing is without the offset, it wouldn't budge past a certain level. Then when I started lowering that, it'd start to climb. Which made me think something was wrong with the probe. It didn't feel like a safety limiter issue. You should be able to see in the pic the times I changed offset - it doesn't really illustrate the changing temps at the rack level, but that's where I was seeing the temps finally pushing past 175. Included another pic to see Auber power activity.
I also played with the exhaust. When shut to ~25-50% temps were lower than just having it fully open. When fully open, I immediately saw temps go up a few degrees, which I thought was interesting.
I tested all my probes this morning in boiling water and they all register 212 correctly ±1. I'm going to test the smoker without the Auber today and see what it does (pull the plug if it gets to 300 rack level). Then I'm going to test with the Auber (offset back at 0) to see what happens at rack level when empty. I never really gave it proper testing other than see if it turns on and see if the Auber made it function lol. The test with the smoker by itself will be interesting, a part of me is wondering if I have some kind of resistance that was introduced with my rewire. But that wouldn't really answer why it only climbed after I changed the offset on the Auber...

What are your variables set to? Does your light on the auber flash or stay on constantly? The out of the box setting I believe P=7, I=600 and D=150 was no good for my Mes 40 as well as autotune no good. The auber would flash 20 degrees below set temp and will never get to set temp with 3 ribs and 2 butts coming out of full power. Your probes are good so go back to zero with the offset. If the output light is on constantly with the 1,200 watt element a 15 amp controller or higher it can output constantly 100% no flashing with the heat sink and being rated at 1,800 watts. With a brisket in P mode P=1, I=0 and D=0 it will full output till one degree below set temp set at 265-275 with no over shoot almost fully open stock butterfly vent but really is 50% open with the fixed portion in the hole in an hour as it's mass is soaking up the heat. It'll take a couple cycles full output at 273, then flashing at 274, then off at 275. As the temp drops it flashes 50% power at 274 and full output at 273 as it recovers dropping to 270, then coasting up back to 274 and flashing 50% power and off at 275, then dropping back down to 270, then back up to flashing at 274 and off at 275. Once you get the load of meat warmer the cycles get tighter and you can switch to full PID mode if you want. The heat is going to migrate to where your top vent is, side or middle where it stacks like a water heater to get out so a couple inches below the top vent is the hottest spot at top rack. My probe goes down my top vent which is on the top right rear corner and my the probe hangs from the top rack two inches off the right wall 3 inches from my food because heated air goes around the meat up the walls to the top and that's the current of air I want to know it's temp below my vent. Like Tallbm said he has his probe clipped to the bottom of his bottom rack for the fastest response but I want to see the Auber probe temp next to my food as heat shoots up the walls so I have to have a setting that is the fastest response, being P mode where P=1 and the controller is full output, flashing the 50% output or off. If P=0 it's an on/off controller like the Mes stock controller so you'll have swings so don't set P to zero regardless of the I and D setting. I do start with full PID mode with sausages and fish starting 130 etc but anything else I want the controller 100% on, flash one degree below set temp and off at set temp with my mailbox mod and exposed element cooking at 265-275 with ribs, butts and brisket. The exposed element doesn't have as much hysteresis of over/under shooting than with the chip housing still in blocking, holding radiating heat after the element shuts off. I've never had to mess with offset or output from 100%. Just don't lose your mind because your not in full PID unless you want to wait to get to set temp. God forbid you open your smoker for any reason in a slow PID mode. I'd switch to P mode to get back to temp as soon as possible then back to PID that works good for you.

 

[moussaka]

What are your variables set to? Does your light on the auber flash or stay on constantly? The out of the box setting I believe P=7, I=600 and D=150 was no good for my Mes 40 as well as autotune no good. The auber would flash 20 degrees below set temp and will never get to set temp with 3 ribs and 2 butts coming out of full power. Your probes are good so go back to zero with the offset. If the output light is on constantly with the 1,200 watt element a 15 amp controller or higher it can output constantly 100% no flashing with the heat sink and being rated at 1,800 watts. With a brisket in P mode P=1, I=0 and D=0 it will full output till one degree below set temp set at 265-275 with no over shoot almost fully open stock butterfly vent but really is 50% open with the fixed portion in the hole in an hour as it's mass is soaking up the heat. It'll take a couple cycles full output at 273, then flashing at 274, then off at 275. As the temp drops it flashes 50% power at 274 and full output at 273 as it recovers dropping to 270, then coasting up back to 274 and flashing 50% power and off at 275, then dropping back down to 270, then back up to flashing at 274 and off at 275. Once you get the load of meat warmer the cycles get tighter and you can switch to full PID mode if you want. The heat is going to migrate to where your top vent is, side or middle where it stacks like a water heater to get out so a couple inches below the top vent is the hottest spot at top rack. My probe goes down my top vent which is on the top right rear corner and my the probe hangs from the top rack two inches off the right wall 3 inches from my food because heated air goes around the meat up the walls to the top and that's the current of air I want to know it's temp below my vent. Like Tallbm said he has his probe clipped to the bottom of his bottom rack for the fastest response but I want to see the Auber probe temp next to my food as heat shoots up the walls so I have to have a setting that is the fastest response, being P mode where P=1 and the controller is full output, flashing the 50% output or off. If P=0 it's an on/off controller like the Mes stock controller so you'll have swings so don't set P to zero regardless of the I and D setting. I do start with full PID mode with sausages and fish starting 130 etc but anything else I want the controller 100% on, flash one degree below set temp and off at set temp with my mailbox mod and exposed element cooking at 265-275 with ribs, butts and brisket. The exposed element doesn't have as much hysteresis of over/under shooting than with the chip housing still in blocking, holding radiating heat after the element shuts off. I've never had to mess with offset or output from 100%. Just don't lose your mind because your not in full PID unless you want to wait to get to set temp. God forbid you open your smoker for any reason in a slow PID mode. I'd switch to P mode to get back to temp as soon as possible then back to PID that works good for you.

I have an AW-1520H so it is 15A.
I'll give those settings a shot and adjust where I'm putting my Auber probe and see how that effects things after my other tests just to make sure the smoker itself is functioning properly. I did make a new exhaust dead center in the top and my top probe always showed ~20 higher than the one under the food. So your observation of the stacked heat definitely makes sense.
Curious what settings you use for your sausage/fish when in full PID.
I started off with these settings from the other PID thread. Granted, I'm not on a MES30, but I figured it'd be a good starting spot.
P = 7
I = 208
D = 210

My best guess is your setting your Auber at to high a temp and continually tripping the safety limit switch.

What I would suggest is setting the Auber at 250 and place the probe dead center in an empty smoker and see what happens. Monitor with a separate therm also.

The only reason I kept bumping the Auber up was to try to get to temp at the racks.
Are you talking the Auber's limit switch or the MES? I replaced the MES with one that should allow me to go to 175C and it was no where near that at the switch location.
What you suggest is definitely on my list of tests to run as I try to get through this.

I've said it before, but I do appreciate all the suggestions and support from everyone here.

 

[normanaj]

Are you talking the Auber's limit switch or the MES? I replaced the MES with one that should allow me to go to 175C and it was no where near that at the switch location.

I was referring to the MES switch.Then that makes my assumption moot at this point a unless you have a bad switch.

Did you ever use the Auber with the stock settings?That might be something to try so that you'll get a baseline to start with and you can go from there.

 

[dr k]

I have an AW-1520H so it is 15A.
I'll give those settings a shot and adjust where I'm putting my Auber probe and see how that effects things after my other tests just to make sure the smoker itself is functioning properly. I did make a new exhaust dead center in the top and my top probe always showed ~20 higher than the one under the food. So your observation of the stacked heat definitely makes sense.
Curious what settings you use for your sausage/fish when in full PID.
I started off with these settings from the other PID thread. Granted, I'm not on a MES30, but I figured it'd be a good starting spot.
P = 7
I = 208
D = 210

I use Chopsaw's like you have but with the Mes 40 volume and 1,200 watt element vs his Mes 30 800 watt element I'm P=1 or 2 or 3, I=208 and D=210. I set the Auber to single step mode, no program and no recipes. No entering minutes it stays on the temp you last set. I set the high low alarms you can't hear anyway on the WS-1510ELPM to ranges that won't trigger them (since I'm not sure they can be turned on/off) and I use the high low alarms on my digital smoker temp probe so no thermal safety switches (both units are bypassed) that turns a smoke into a troubleshooting Chinese fire drill from a $1.00 switch for me but you do you. It's nice to have an alarm go off when it's on you if a smoker is on fire or dropping in temp so you go to it if your not standing next to it. The safety thermal switch cuts power but it's going to keep burning if it's not kept up not being dried from grease, keeping a nice flat black patina so an alert is key. I ramp up by my phone alarm manually 5-10 degrees every hour for sausage and fish based on IT.

 

[tallbm]

M moussaka I'm with dr k on this. Lower your P value down and see how it performs. I removed all of the stuff above the heating element in my MES40 so I have less deflection and trickery caused by that stuff :D

The P value is the primary power value of how hard the controller will initial work and is usually a base for the other heating control behavior also controlled by I and D.
The P value in the Auber indicates how close to the Set value the temperature should be before the controller stops pushing max power to the heating element.
So a P of 1 means 1 degree below the set temp then lower electrical power to the heating element.
A value of P at 2 means 2 degrees below set temp it starts to throttle power down and then 1 degree below it lowers power even more, etc. etc.

You get the idea of the pattern. So if you have a P of 1 or 2 it should just go full blast right up to the set temp AND help with the I value's control as well (I think that I feeds off P in the Auber, can't remember and not all PIDs are exactly the same).