MES 30" Temperature Zones Part 2 of 2

[THW]

The same parameters that were used in part 1 were maintained in part 2.

Note the temperature was set to 275*

With the probe placed on the 3rd shelf and located in the right rear corner, here is the results. Note: The aluminum drip tray remained in place.

The cabinet temperature fell to 184*. When the temperature came back up it rose to 371*

The temperature stabilized at 311* to 347*. Sorry forgot to get picture.

Then, the tray was remover and the temperature swing was established.

The swing without the tray was 285* to 359*

Note the MES digital readout was 266* to 284*

The temperature fell to 120* when I opened the door to move the probe to the front left position on the 3rd shelf.

The temperature swing stabilized at 266* to 299*

The final temperature test was with the probe in the center of the 2nd shelf. The drip tray was centered on the 3rd shelf, figuring I would have the AMNPS centered on the bottom (4th) shelf most of the time.

With the door open, the temperature fell to 246*.

The temperature stabilized at 269* to 300*

Of course each smoker may be a little different but this is mine.
I hope this information is helpful.

Tom

 

[Bearcarver]

Those temps are all over the place, and 371°, 347°, and 359° are much too high.

Did you contact Masterbuilt?

Bear

 

[THW]

Bear, I did notice that the temps were really high when the probe was on the third shelf and am not sure exactly why. My only thought would be that the Gen 2.5 with the large water tray blocking the entire center area of the cabinet that the heat when the element was on, was funneled right up each corner of the cabinet on its way to the top.

That would mean the center of the shelf, where the meat would be placed would have the more stable temperatures as indicated by the final 2nd shelf temperatures.

What are your thoughts on that theory. With the majority of the heat being directed to the corners where the probe was at should be a hotter temperature.

 

[THW]

Another note Bear. The 371 reading was the initial temp climb after closing the door and also had the water tray in place AND the aluminum drip tray in place so the heat was really having to come up in the corners which was where the probe was placed. I tried to take a picture with the aluminum drip tray in and the probe in the rear corner but it made it impossible to see the probe.

 

[Bearcarver]

Bear, I did notice that the temps were really high when the probe was on the third shelf and am not sure exactly why. My only thought would be that the Gen 2.5 with the large water tray blocking the entire center area of the cabinet that the heat when the element was on, was funneled right up each corner of the cabinet on its way to the top.

That would mean the center of the shelf, where the meat would be placed would have the more stable temperatures as indicated by the final 2nd shelf temperatures.

What are your thoughts on that theory. With the majority of the heat being directed to the corners where the probe was at should be a hotter temperature.

There shouldn't be that much variance, however-------
I hate to see any part of an MES reading an accurate Temp Peak of over 320°, or a constant temp of over 300°.
I had a bad control on one, and the temp got up to somewhere around 340°.
I heard a strange noise. It sounded like the insulation between the walls was Crinkling.
I killed the power, and the temp dropped. As it got down to about 310, I had to put my good ear against the wall to hear it. A little while later the noise stopped, at about 290°.

I got another controller for it, and it's perfect---The one I've been using for the last couple years.

Bear

 

[THW]

Maybe I should run a final test with the probe in the center of the top shelf and the center of the third shelf. That is where the meat would be. But I am convinced that with that big water tray in and a drip pan in, the heat will be especially high where it is rising around the edges.

I may also at a temp test with out having the water tray in the cabinet.

Now I am actually pleased with these temperatures. I can always lower the "set temperature" and get cooler temps. But if it was not getting the temps up past 275* I would be stuck having to use a low temperature. You can adjust for too hot but you can't for too cool.

 

[dr k]

Wow. Is the safety snap disk sensor opening at the mid/upper 300* marks? And closing in the upper 200* so you may not know that it's opening and closing. If it's rated for 302*, I'd hope it'll open at 315*.

 

[Bearcarver]

Maybe I should run a final test with the probe in the center of the top shelf and the center of the third shelf. That is where the meat would be. But I am convinced that with that big water tray in and a drip pan in, the heat will be especially high where it is rising around the edges.

I may also at a temp test with out having the water tray in the cabinet.

Now I am actually pleased with these temperatures. I can always lower the "set temperature" and get cooler temps. But if it was not getting the temps up past 275* I would be stuck having to use a low temperature. You can adjust for too hot but you can't for too cool.

What exactly is that shallow drip pan for?
Not saying there's anything wrong with it---Just wondering.
The only time I put a pan under any meat is to catch good drippings to save.

If you can turn yours down so nothing goes higher that 300° continuous, as long as some parts are not too low then, I would do that. I liked your Swing Temps on the other thread (Part 1 of 2).

Bear

 

[THW]

I liked the swing temps on part 1 also. That was the top shelf after the heat had had some space to spread out. And that and the second from the top is where most all meat would be smoked at.

When I did my first ribs a week or so ago, because of the limited space in the 30" cabinet, I cut the rib rack in half and pit the smaller half on the top and the larger half on shelf 2. I took a cheap disposable alum pan and cut the top section off and put it on the third shelf just as a drip pan to help with cleanup. I left the water pan and chip pan out completely.

I think I need to run a Part 3 and check the temps in the center of each shelf without the aluminum drip tray.

Wow. Is the safety snap disk sensor opening at the mid/upper 300* marks? And closing in the upper 200* so you may not know that it's opening and closing. If it's rated for 302*, I'd hope it'll open at 315*.

Kurt, you going a little over my head. I know the MES has a safety shutoff when the temps get too high but have no idea where the threshold is at. I am guessing you are saying it is set to turn the heating element off at 302*

Now, when the heating element red light went out meaning the element was off, I still got significant more temperature rise before it started back down.

 

[THW]

Bear, with my heating element on the bottom right side and my vent on the top rear left side do you think I need to leave the water tray in or could I leave it out?

There is a substantial shield over the element.

 

[Bearcarver]

All I use is my Empty water pan in place, covered with foil, and I get swings like you got on Test 1 of 1.

I wouldn't remove the water pan from a Gen #2.5.

Bear

 

[THW]

OK.

 

[THW]

I have done some reading about ceramic tile as a heat stabilizer. Maybe something with some thickness to maintain heat but that also has holes in it to let heat pass through. I think I read that you don't use sand or bricks but do you see any problem caused by them?

 

[Bearcarver]

I would try to tweakyour temp controls until you get the highest temp anywhere in your smoker to an accurate 300°.
Then see what the rest of the areas are & what your swings are.

I have a Thread on here that tells you how to control the swings, but it's hard to find with this new forum. I'll keep looking.

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

I have done some reading about ceramic tile as a heat stabilizer. Maybe something with some thickness to maintain heat but that also has holes in it to let heat pass through. I think I read that you don't use sand or bricks but do you see any problem caused by them?

I don't care for heat sincs, because up here in the North, what you gain in heat sinc, you lose in trying to heat a frozen brick or ceramic tiles or sand. The metal in the interior of the smoker is enough heat sinc in my book.

Bear

 

[THW]

I see what your saying about the extra heat needed to get the heat sink up to temperature but once there I would think it would stabilize temperature swings. I may have to tinker with that concept later. It would seem a more stabile temperature swing would be good. And when the door has to be opened, when it is closed the recovery time should be shorter to get back to stability.Those are all just theory for me at this point.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Bearcarver]

Here it is.
This crushes the initial Temp Swing from Start-up & Big Temp changes you make during smoking.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/avoid-temp-swings-in-mes-by-bear.208552/


Bear

 

[THW]

Thanks Bear. I see the concept and did notice on my testing that the initial run up and the run up when the door had been open was usually sizable. After that run, it generally settled down pretty quick. Many that have not checked ovens or smokers should realize that a 30 to 40 degree swing is not unusual. The setting that is correct is the swing with your desired "set temperature in the middle. So if the temp moves 20 degrees below and then moves back up to 20 degrees above, that is except-able.

I figure many folks think the temp stays right at the set temperature and that is just not so on electric units.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[muddydogs]

Thanks Bear. I see the concept and did notice on my testing that the initial run up and the run up when the door had been open was usually sizable. After that run, it generally settled down pretty quick. Many that have not checked ovens or smokers should realize that a 30 to 40 degree swing is not unusual. The setting that is correct is the swing with your desired "set temperature in the middle. So if the temp moves 20 degrees below and then moves back up to 20 degrees above, that is except-able.

I figure many folks think the temp stays right at the set temperature and that is just not so on electric units.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Tell you what, my PID shure holds a constant temp and takes care of the temp swings. I questioned my decision to purchases a PID for an almost new smoker and wire it in which bypassed all the smoker controls but after a couple smokes including today's were the PID held the set temp for over 7 hours with no more then 3 degrees fluctuation I'm liking it. I am also finding that my cabinet temps are fairly even probably since they have time to stabilize without the constant over and under shooting of the stock MES.

 

[dr k]

Tell you what, my PID shure holds a constant temp and takes care of the temp swings. I questioned my decision to purchases a PID for an almost new smoker and wire it in which bypassed all the smoker controls but after a couple smokes including today's were the PID held the set temp for over 7 hours with no more then 3 degrees fluctuation I'm liking it. I am also finding that my cabinet temps are fairly even probably since they have time to stabilize without the constant over and under shooting of the stock MES.

I've got the WS-1510ELPM Auber but no time to auto tune the Mes Gen 1 40. I need a warm day to do tallbm's ten minute no back removal bypass first. My Mes averages 250* when set to 275* with a roast in it. It'll be nice to get to 275* or a little higher. It took three hours to auto tune the crockpot being slow response and insulated but it's a great 6 qt sou vide and yogurt maker till I can get to the smoker.