Long Rest vs Long Hold - help needed

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djcdubz

Newbie
Original poster
Nov 7, 2022
4
0
Making a brisket tomorrow. Need some help.

Does anyone have any perspective on the relative benefits of a long rest vs long hold, i.e. which is better? To clarify, I hear people talk about having an extended 8-12 hour rest but I can't tell if they mean hold, the difference between the two being that the rest is the time in which the brisket comes down from peak temp to a holding temp of 145 vs. holding the brisket at the serving temp for as long as is desired in a warmer. If the rest is to be long, would it be best then to wrap the brisket in a towel and use the cooler/faux cambro method down to 145 IT and THEN eventually a warmer for the remainder of time, or is it better to let the brisket rest naked or wrapped in butcher paper for a shorter period at room temp and then use the hold method in a warmer for longer. Does it even make a difference between the two? Thanks for any help or insight into this process. I can't seem to find detailed and clear explanations for which is right.
 
Wow, you put way more thought into it than I ever have🤣 I don’t know if there’s a difference with results, you just want the juices to settle back into the meat. I pull off heat when it’s probe tender and I’m usually a ways out from serving so I wrap in butcher paper w butter or tallow after it’s cooked a bit, then into the cooler with towels.
 
I was always a 4 to 5 hour hold in a Cambro or cooler, this is much better than a 1 or 2 hour rest. But.... In the last 5 or 6 years 'hot holding' briskets for 12 or more hours is being talked about more and more. I think it was some employees at Franklin's that leaked the story about using an Alto Sham oven to hot hold briskets cooked today, for service tomorrow. And I believe an article in Texas Monthly had a photo of Alto Sham ovens at Franklins and maybe another BBQ joint. I've tried this in a Nesco roaster and it works. I've also done the same with pork butts and really like the texture. I let the brisket come down to 160°-ish before starting the hot hold.

Po2bbVp.jpg

The slices come out limber and tender.
MaMvXbO.jpg



 
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I was always a 4 to 5 hour hold in a Cambro or cooler, this is much better than a 1 or 2 hour rest. But.... In the last 5 or 6 years 'hot holding' briskets for 12 or more hours is being talked about more and more. I think it was some employees at Franklin's that leaked the story about using an Alto Sham oven to hot hold briskets cooked today, for service tomorrow. And I believe an article in Texas Monthly had a photo of Alto Sham ovens at Franklins and maybe another BBQ joint. I've tried this in a Nesco roaster and it works. I've also done the same with pork butts and really like the texture. I let the brisket come down to 160°-ish before starting the hot hold.

View attachment 648338

The slices come out limber and tender.
View attachment 648339




Thanks. This is helpful. I was thinking about doing it around 165 so it's good to know that you've had success with it.
 
I'll throw my two cents in...

It really comes down to what works for you and what tools you have available to you.

If you are just resting the brisket (as in not a heated active hold), then you would first want to vent it to let it come down to somewhere around 180ish in order to prevent any carryover cooking that would potentially result in an over cooked brisket, then once it comes down to 180ish you could wrap it back up, then throw it in a cooler to rest. It will hold there safely for several hours, but personally (this is just my opinion) I wouldn't be comfortable exceeding 4 - 4.5 hours with this method. It might be fine, or it might not. Better to not take chances in my opinion.

If you want to do a heated active hold, there are several methods, it just depends what you have available. Regardless of which method you go with, I would rest the brisket down to 150ish, then proceed with the heated active hold method of your choice.

Some of the methods include:
1. Using your home oven IF you can get it down to 140-150ish. The problem with this method is that most modern home ovens only go down to 170, and many automatically turn off after 4 or so hours as "safety" feature.

2. Using a Turkey Roaster as mentioned by thirdeye above. This is a very popular method and works well, but you should test your roaster before you attempt it, to see how accurate the temperature is to what you have it set to. Sometimes they can vary greatly from what they are set at.

3. The Toaster Oven method. Some toaster ovens can hold at low temps in the 140-150 range, like the Breville model used by Youtuber Bradley Robinson a.k.a Chud's BBQ, and they are just big enough to fit most fully cooked packer briskets.

4. The Anova Oven method. This is an expensive option, but if you happen to have one they work very well and they also provide humidity which is nice.

5. And my personal go to...the Sous Vide method. This one works amazingly well and has never let me down. But, the downside is it requires a Sous Vide circulator, a sous vide container large enough to hold a brisket, a vac sealer with a wide enough seal band that can handle a whole brisket, and a wide roll that can fit a whole brisket.

I personally prefer using an over-night heated hold vs a traditional rest because it just makes life easier. No waking up at 4 in the morning to get your brisket on, conversely, no staying up all night to cook your brisket, and no worrying if it will be done in time for dinner etc.

My personal method, is that I trim my brisket Friday night, I wake up at a normal time Saturday morning and get the brisket on the smoker by 10AM. I usually pull my briskets around 195ish and they usually take 11-12 hours for me on my cooker, and they are usually ready to come off by 10PM. I pull them, rest them down to 145-150 which takes about 2 hours in my experience. Then I vac seal and put in the sous vide set at 141 around midnight. I've held them there for everywhere between 12 hours and 18 hours, and they have been great every single time.

Here's a few pics from a recent cook.
Brisket-on-the-Board.jpg

Brisket-Point.jpg

Brisket-Flat-Slices.jpg

Bend-Test-7-30-22.jpg
 
I wouldn't get too hung up on words people use in posts, e.g. rest vs hold. I think a lot of people use them interchangeably which, IMO, isn't correct. I personally would rest a turkey and hold a brisket. Another example is "dino ribs" vs "back ribs." Same problem. Try to read the whole post or more of a given page or thread to figure out what is actually meant.

IMO, rest is taking cooked meat and allowing it to come down in temp before you slice. It might rest naked, it might be tented with foil, it might be wrapped in foil/paper and towels, it might be placed in a cooler, etc, any combination. The meat is gradually dropping in temp.

IMO a hold is keeping meat at a steady temp such as 150 F for many hours. Naturally it would be wrapped or covered in foil/paper so that it stays moist unless it's in a commercial device such as an alto shaam which monitors humidity.

The hardest part for a backyard cook is having a device which will hold at the temp you want. Most kitchen ovens only hold at 175 or so. There are various tricks to accomplish holding at lower temps.

I just did a whole brisket last weekend and held it at 150 F for sixteen hours and it was great. But I pulled it from the offset at only 190 F.

See last two vids in post #3!

Good luck. :-D


Edit: Wow - My brisket cook last Saturday was pretty much the same method described in the post above - the only difference is I held mine in my kitchen oven which holds at 150. Method: Smoke to 190 F. Brisket hits 190 F. Pull. Wrap tight in tallowed butcher paper, place in aluminum tray with half cup water, cover with HD foil tight. Put in oven. Go to bed. Wake up. Eat brisket around noon. Perfect and delicious.
 
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Most of the BBQ places will Alto Sham brisket, 165 is the common temp for bacteria purposes.

My home oven has a warming oven function 140-200. I like to hold my brisket from 2-4 hours min Have done 6-7 hours on the longest side. All turn out very tasty!
 
Not sure why it's quoting this, it won't let me remove it

Most of the BBQ places will Alto Sham brisket, 165 is the common temp for bacteria purposes.

My home oven has a warming oven function 140-200. I like to hold my brisket from 2-4 hours min Have done 6-7 hours on the longest side. All turn out very tasty!

Actually, most of those places set their warmers to 140, not 165. That's been mentioned in Youtube videos by Jonny White a.k.a Jirby (one of the owners of Goldees BBQ who also worked at Franklin and La BBQ), and also Bradley Robinson a.k.a Chud (who worked at Le Roy and Lewis, and Friedmans before that). I also saw a video recently at Truth BBQ where there was a good shot of the warmer and you could see the digital display showed the temp set at 140 there as well.

They set that them low for a couple reasons. Food obviously must be cooked to the proper internal temperature to kill any bacteria, but once that temperature has been reached it just needs to remain out of the danger zone. The USDA says you can hot hold food at 140 or above indefinitely, or at 135 and above for a max of 8 hours. Also, the hotter you set it and the longer they sit in there the more chance there is to them drying out, which is also why the preference in warmers seems to be Alto Sham which uses "Halo Heat" which is more gentle than many other warmer brands, and they have good humidity control as well. Apparently Franklin moved away from Alto Sham though and is using CVAP holding cabinets now which have even better humidity control.

I'm not sure how much the temp swings are in those commercial warmers, but if it were me, I'd probably want to set just a tad bit higher at something like 145 just to make sure the average temp never gets below 140, but that's just me and I'm sure they have done enough testing to know how accurate those set temps are and what the average actual temp is etc.
 
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The danger zone for holding hot food is from 41 to 135. Hot food held below 135 for 4 hours or more should be discarded. The USDA recommends 140 or higher. It is also important to note that the USDA has "guidelines", but each restaurant (public food vender) is held to the food standards of the local jurisdiction regulations, many jurisdictions require a higher holding temp and restricted holding time.
 
The danger zone for holding hot food is from 41 to 135. Hot food held below 135 for 4 hours or more should be discarded. The USDA recommends 140 or higher. It is also important to note that the USDA has "guidelines", but each restaurant (public food vender) is held to the food standards of the local jurisdiction regulations, many jurisdictions require a higher holding temp and restricted holding time.

That pretty much aligns with what I said lol


"From a safety perspective, the food code is very clear on how long food can be kept in the danger zone, but less directive on how long food held at proper temperature can be stored. The USDA did issue an advisory that “A minimum temperature of 135 degrees for a maximum of 8 hours, or a minimum temperature of 140 degrees Fahrenheit indefinitely also would be adequate to ensure food safety.”
 
Yeah I've seen alto shaams holding at 140 and 150 in a number of youtube vids. My understanding is it holds with "laser accuracy," which is to say there are no temp swings of more than a degree or so.

BTW I just finished last Saturday's brisket this morning. That's seven days AFTER pulling it from the smoker. Held at 150 F for seven days. Still moist, juicy and delicious. :-D
 
We like the brisket at Smokey Joe's in Austin and they have a steam cabinet where the cooked meat resides at least overnight.
So I suggest adding a water pan to whatever chamber you choose unless it's just a cooler.
FWIW, most kitchen stoves won't go down much below 200, no matter what the display says.
Stick your digital probe in there and give it a test.
 
As I posted in the other thread, I bought this. Working well so far. I will add a water pan, good idea.


I had looked at those a while back. Not that exact one, but a similar one by the same company as they make a few different models. I was wondering how well they would work or how accurate as the price seemed very good for a holding cabinet.

But I ended up getting a PK 100 electric smoker from PS Seasonings primarily for smoking sausage, but it can run stably from under 100 degrees up to 250 though, and it's fully insulated so in addition to smoking sausage, snack sticks, jerky, and bacon it will also be used as a holding cabinet for heated overnight brisket holds at 145ish.
 
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I had looked at those a while back. Not that exact one, but a similar one by the same company as they make a few different models. I was wondering how well they would work or how accurate as the price seemed very good for a holding cabinet.

But I ended up getting a PK 100 electric smoker from PS Seasonings primarily for smoking sausage, but it can run stably from under 100 degrees up to 250 though, and it's fully insulated so in addition to smoking sausage, snack sticks, jerky, and bacon it will also be used as a holding cabinet for heated overnight brisket holds at 145ish.
Took some tweaking, but the temp holds well. Fits 4 or 5 big pans with brisket/ribs. Does a nice job.
 
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We like the brisket at Smokey Joe's in Austin and they have a steam cabinet where the cooked meat resides at least overnight.
So I suggest adding a water pan to whatever chamber you choose unless it's just a cooler.
FWIW, most kitchen stoves won't go down much below 200, no matter what the display says.
Stick your digital probe in there and give it a test.
Many older version or lower function ovens may not function well below 200, however there are many newer brands & models that do function. Our Bosch will run all day at proof temp of 100 and will run plus/minus 5 deg from 140 up (it is PID controlled). I have tested them and they are spot on with in the tolerance. I also keep a separate temp gauge on the ovens for verification as well (habit from my kitchen days). Prior to the Bosch we had Thermidor as well as a warning drawer both were spot on the specs as well, but the oven in warm mode gave us more control and the reason we didn’t get a warming drawer in the new house.

I do agree that one should verify the cooking and hold temp for food. Food born illness is not something that should not be careless about.
 
I'll throw my two cents in...

It really comes down to what works for you and what tools you have available to you.

If you are just resting the brisket (as in not a heated active hold), then you would first want to vent it to let it come down to somewhere around 180ish in order to prevent any carryover cooking that would potentially result in an over cooked brisket, then once it comes down to 180ish you could wrap it back up, then throw it in a cooler to rest. It will hold there safely for several hours, but personally (this is just my opinion) I wouldn't be comfortable exceeding 4 - 4.5 hours with this method. It might be fine, or it might not. Better to not take chances in my opinion.

If you want to do a heated active hold, there are several methods, it just depends what you have available. Regardless of which method you go with, I would rest the brisket down to 150ish, then proceed with the heated active hold method of your choice.

Some of the methods include:
1. Using your home oven IF you can get it down to 140-150ish. The problem with this method is that most modern home ovens only go down to 170, and many automatically turn off after 4 or so hours as "safety" feature.

2. Using a Turkey Roaster as mentioned by thirdeye above. This is a very popular method and works well, but you should test your roaster before you attempt it, to see how accurate the temperature is to what you have it set to. Sometimes they can vary greatly from what they are set at.

3. The Toaster Oven method. Some toaster ovens can hold at low temps in the 140-150 range, like the Breville model used by Youtuber Bradley Robinson a.k.a Chud's BBQ, and they are just big enough to fit most fully cooked packer briskets.

4. The Anova Oven method. This is an expensive option, but if you happen to have one they work very well and they also provide humidity which is nice.

5. And my personal go to...the Sous Vide method. This one works amazingly well and has never let me down. But, the downside is it requires a Sous Vide circulator, a sous vide container large enough to hold a brisket, a vac sealer with a wide enough seal band that can handle a whole brisket, and a wide roll that can fit a whole brisket.

I personally prefer using an over-night heated hold vs a traditional rest because it just makes life easier. No waking up at 4 in the morning to get your brisket on, conversely, no staying up all night to cook your brisket, and no worrying if it will be done in time for dinner etc.

My personal method, is that I trim my brisket Friday night, I wake up at a normal time Saturday morning and get the brisket on the smoker by 10AM. I usually pull my briskets around 195ish and they usually take 11-12 hours for me on my cooker, and they are usually ready to come off by 10PM. I pull them, rest them down to 145-150 which takes about 2 hours in my experience. Then I vac seal and put in the sous vide set at 141 around midnight. I've held them there for everywhere between 12 hours and 18 hours, and they have been great every single time.

Here's a few pics from a recent cook.
View attachment 648376

View attachment 648377

View attachment 648378

View attachment 648379
Does the sous vide hold mess up the bark?
 
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