Lodgepole Pine as a smoking wood?

[chefpels]

Hi all.

I live in western wyoming, at very high elevation.  the most prominent wood here for both campfires and fireplaces is lodgepole pine.  i have looked at a couple of forums here, and many (i assume knowledgeable) people have sworn that using pine wood as either a smoking wood or cooking wood is extremely bad.  my question is this:  Since so many of us out here heat their very homes for 7 months out of the year with lodgepole pine, how come we aren't dropping dead of cancer (attributable to pine resin, etc.)?  I am wondering if this might be an urban myth?  Just trying to separate fact from fiction if possible.  

 

[venture]

Pine is a soft wood and high in resin.  This will burn dirty and give you a harsh creosote flavor on your meat.

We burn pine in fireplaces here, but hardwoods are preferred.  Pine will cause a need for more frequent chimney cleaning.

Good luck and good smoking.

 

[chefpels]

i guess i've never heard that more frequent chimney cleanings (due to creosote) are needed here relative to anywhere else.  is there possibly a difference for lodgepole pine vs a lower elevation pine?  again, this is what we burn in our fireplaces here (everybody), and i've never heard that we have a higher rate of toxic-related cancer/disease related to burning pine.  i'm wondering if inhaling burning pine from a campfire or fireplace is safe, but smoking may concentrate particles in the meat?  don't mean to question the bbq gods, but it does seem counter-intuitive that one can burn fires/inhale pine smoke with no ill effects, but one can't smoke meat with it.  

 

[dward51]

Well I'm from the South and I know our Southern Yellow Pine is full of resin and is a horrible smoking wood.  I can't vouch for Lodgepole Pine though.  Our pine is also a softwood and burns very hot and fast with formation of creosote.  I would suspect pretty much any pine will have those tendencies.

I think one clue might be I don't recall ever seeing a BBQ sign advertising "pine" smoked BBQ?  Seen plenty of signs, posts, and web sites that talk about hickory, oak, cherry, apple, pecan, and pretty much every other "fruit wood" you can name. 

If you are considering using it, I would try a small sample batch of meat in the first smoke and watch your temps closely until you know how the pine burns. If you do try it, let us know how it works.

You know, this makes me think of a guy I used to work with would say "It's my mouth and I'll haul coal in it if I want to" when someone questioned what he was putting on his food.  I guess he had a point. I miss that guy......

 

[dirtsailor2003]

Lodge pole all over my neck of the woods. Not a tasty wood for smoking. Have I cooked over it in the camp grounds yes. In an enclosed environment like a smoker the fumes from the wood are concentrated. It is not a good smoke wood. Very bitter very acrid. For heating a home it is great for smoking food it is not.

 

[chefpels]

Good observation.  yea i guess i'm wanting to use the predominant regional fuel source here, which is lodgepole pine.  i am going to experiment a bit.  i have also seen recipes for making black forest ham, and i believe the black forest is a coniferous forest, so lots of pine.  again, just wanting to separate fact (scientific/experience/what you've seen with your own eyes) from fiction (heard if from a guy/what one has always been told/etc.).  Thanks for the reply.

 

[chefpels]

Just wanted to mention that i realize when it comes to BBQ, many times it is all about what you have been told by somebody else (dad/grandad/mom/uncles, etc) and I don't want to discount how important that is.  just don't want to offend or disrespect anybody's cooking heritage.

 

[timberjet]

For me it is all about flavor. I lived in the southern idaho mountains for years as well as colorado. Many a steak cooked over pine and fir. That said I think you will find using it in an enclosed space like a smoker you might end up with a creosote coating that will numb your tastebuds so you can't really taste what you are eating. You probably have aspen there as well as scrub oak I would guess. Much better choices in my opinion if you do not have access to any fruit woods or hardwoods. I have used scrub oak, lilac. wild rose, aspen, birch, All with good results. Hope this helps you out. It is a free country and you can smoke with whatever you want. I like my taste buds to work right myself.

 

[dandl93]

 
Hi all.

I live in western wyoming, at very high elevation.  the most prominent wood here for both campfires and fireplaces is lodgepole pine.  i have looked at a couple of forums here, and many (i assume knowledgeable) people have sworn that using pine wood as either a smoking wood or cooking wood is extremely bad.  my question is this:  Since so many of us out here heat their very homes for 7 months out of the year with lodgepole pine, how come we aren't dropping dead of cancer (attributable to pine resin, etc.)?  I am wondering if this might be an urban myth?  Just trying to separate fact from fiction if possible.  

I lived many years in Co and Id and spent alot of time in Elk and Cow camps of family and friends.I have and also seen many people use lodgepole for campfires.There was always a campfire  and a cook fire.The cook fire was filled with coals only from the campfire the smoke and resins have already burnt off.Lodgepole pine is also alot  harder fiber then say white pine or yellow pine even spruce which is very sappy.

I still would not use it for a smoker

Dan

 

[bear55]

Smoking is about taste.  Leave the pine for your fireplace.

 

[dummy que]

klose pits says  never ever use any type of pine to smoke with it will leave a very nastiey taste in your smoker whitch is inposable to remove

 

[chef jimmyj]

There is nothing about Pine that will cause Cancer, Kill you or even make you sick. But depending on what site you check on smoking woods, most don't recommend smoke with Conifers and there are those that claim some are Poisonous. Smoking Meat has been going on for thousands of years and it has just been determined through trial and error that Pine adds what many folks feel is an unpleasant taste to meats smoked in an enclosed Smokehouse compared to Hardwoods. While Creosote " is " what Preserves meat, hell that is where the word Creosote comes from, the Greek word for " Meat ", kréas (κρέας) and the word for " Preserver ", sôtêr,  (σωτήρ). It also contributes to it's flavor and too much is a bad thing. At Cold Smoking temps and at Smoking temps up to 250°F Pine, Soft Woods and Green Hard Woods generate a lot of Creosote, a combination of Tar, Water, Hydrocarbons, Oils, Ash and a bunch of other things. In large quantities any Creosote tastes nasty but those from soft woods more so.You are certainly welcome to give it a try and if you do post the results. You may like the taste, some do, after all, some people drink a lot of Jagermeister...

As far as Fireplaces go Pine is fine as long as it is allowed to burn hot! If the smoke gets below 250° the Creosote can condense on the walls of the Chimney. With enough build up, Creosote can combust and a chimney fire is the result. The reason many, given the choice, don't use Pine to heat their house unless cheap and readily available, like where you live, is people like to Sleep and Pine burns up fast. You either wake to a cold house from a burned out fire, or if the air supply is choked down to burn a long time, there is a lot more Creosote generated that can lead to trouble down the road. Lastly, yes, Black Forest Ham is smoked with conifers, specifically various Firs but Pine chips and Cones are sometimes mentioned...JJ

 

[dandl93]

 
There is nothing about Pine that will cause Cancer, Kill you or even make you sick. But depending on what site you check on smoking woods, most don't recommend smoke with Conifers and there are those that claim some are Poisonous.   Smoking Meat has been going on for thousands of years and it has just been determined through trial and error that Pine adds what many folks feel is an unpleasant taste to meats smoked in an enclosed Smokehouse compared to Hardwoods. While Creosote " is " what Preserves meat, hell that is where the word Creosote comes from, the Greek word for " Meat ", kréas (κρέας) and the word for " Preserver ", sôtêr,  (σωτήρ). It also contributes to it's flavor and too much is a bad thing. At Cold Smoking temps and at Smoking temps up to 250°F Pine, Soft Woods and Green Hard Woods generate a lot of Creosote, a combination of Tar, Water, Hydrocarbons, Oils, Ash and a bunch of other things. In large quantities any Creosote tastes nasty but those from soft woods more so.You are certainly welcome to give it a try and if you do post the results. You may like the taste, some do, after all some people drink a lot of Jagermeister...

As far as Fireplaces go Pine is fine as long as it is allowed to burn hot! If the smoke gets below 250° the Creosote can condense on the walls of the Chimney. With enough build up, Creosote can combust and a chimney fire is the result. The reason many, given the choice, don't use Pine to heat their house unless cheap and readily available, like where you live, is people like to Sleep and Pine burns up fast. You either wake to a cold house from a burned out fire, or if the air supply is choked down to burn a long time, there is a lot more Creosote generated that can lead to trouble down the road. Lastly, yes, Black Forest Ham is smoked with conifers, specifically various Firs but Pine chips and Cones are sometimes mentioned...JJ

Do you happen to have any info on using Firs for smoking ? We have some fir here if it is usable I would like to try it.

Thanks 

Dan

 

[chef jimmyj]

 
Do you happen to have any info on using Firs for smoking ? We have some fir here if it is usable I would like to try it.

Thanks 

Dan

The only info I have on this talks about Black Forest Hams produced in Germany and is nonspecific except for Fir wood. With a search there is mention of Pine Chips and Cones, again nonspecific, Juniper Berries or Wood. Anything else I think I would avoid. There may be some German members that can be more specific, Shannon127 has studied German Charcuterie. I would suggest a search for Pine and Fir trees and bushes that are Toxic, to animals or humans and stay away from those. Here is what I have found...JJ

From a Sausage making site...

Here as promised is what I could find out about Blackforest Bacon. It is not much. As I said before the recipes are guarded like a state secret, even my own brother was not very forthcoming. "You are going to tell someone about it. Are you?" was his comment. Then he gave me the following list of ingredients but no weight or percentage.

Normal cooking salt.
Nitrite salt (Poeckelsalt)
Juniper berries
Peper corns whole
Garlic fresh
Onion fresh 
Coriander

The meat chosen for blackforest ham should have a PH value of no more than 5.9.
The best meat comes from the pork shoulder and hams for this type of bacon and should not be to fat.
The seasoning mixture is rubbed well into the meat. The curing phase begins with the bacon being left for 2 to 3 days so it can build and rest in its own juices. After that the bacon is transfered into a wooden (oak wood) container and pressed for another 2 to 3 days. (preferably this is done on a location which is at or higher than 800 meters above sea level) I do not know why but my brother and others are insistent on that one to achieve maximum quality)

After the curing the bacon is moked in cold smoke (tmeperature between 25C to 27C) for 2 to 3 weeks. (Again, my brother and others insist that this has to be done in an old well used high brick chimney and you guesst it above 800 meters sea level.) For smoking only pine wood and pine needles are used in addition with juniper berries or branches and coriander.

After the smoking the bacon is let to rest for another 2 to 3 weeks in a specially climatized room. My guess here is as good as yours. I think the same humitiy and temps apply here as with salami or thereabouts.

Here is another good read on the subject...

http://www.schwarzwaelder-schinken-verband.com/index.php?seite=herstellung

 

[dandl93]

Chef JJ 

Thank you I will do some more research on Fir woods.I quess I will not do any Black Forest hams I live over 1700 meters hahahahahah.

Dan