Issue with Snack Stick Casings

[mkriet]

It happens.

Also if the casings are not fresh, they are prone to not sticking to the finished product.  I have some I know are old and I am still using them.  I just plan on pealing the casings off after the stick are done.  Other than that I see no point in tossing them.  I seem to recall one way to check for freshness of collagen casings is to rub them on a sheet of paper. If it leaves a slightly oily mark, they are still good.  If it does not, they will be prone to not sticking to the meat.

And Dave O. is absolutely right. Mix until you think it's over mixed (but be careful if using ECA as you don't want to break the capsules open).

So I think I figured out what is causing my issue. When I pulled my last batch of snack sticks the casings were pretty stiff/hard. Like they were dried out from the cooking process. I let them sit in the fridge for a day before packaging and freezing, and the casings softened to what I would call normal.

Here is where the problem comes in. When I pull a pack out to thaw it sends like the casings really soften and stay to pull away from the meat. This gets worse the longer I let a pack sit in the fridge after opening.

Now that I think I know what is causing it, what the hell do I do about it?

 

[dward51]

Well, if you are a frugal old bastard like I am, I would use them and then just peal the loose casings off the sticks before cutting them to final length for storage or use.  I don't know if letting them sit and air dry a little before use would help.  It sounds like they have become over moistened in the fridge and packing for freezing (or did they get freezer burn?).

Other than try to make it work, you can replace them with new.....

 

[timstalltaletav]

Well, if you are a frugal old bastard like I am, I would use them and then just peal the loose casings off the sticks before cutting them to final length for storage or use.  I don't know if letting them sit and air dry a little before use would help.  It sounds like they have become over moistened in the fridge and packing for freezing (or did they get freezer burn?).

Other than try to make it work, you can replace them with new.....

I've been removing the casings after smoking as well. I don't know if I got old casings or what but they just aren't sticking. When the meat is mixed well and smoked the sticks are plenty firm enough to not need casings.

 

[boykjo]

It happens.

Also if the casings are not fresh, they are prone to not sticking to the finished product.  I have some I know are old and I am still using them.  I just plan on pealing the casings off after the stick are done.  Other than that I see no point in tossing them.  I seem to recall one way to check for freshness of collagen casings is to rub them on a sheet of paper. If it leaves a slightly oily mark, they are still good.  If it does not, they will be prone to not sticking to the meat.

And Dave O. is absolutely right. Mix until you think it's over mixed (but be careful if using ECA as you don't want to break the capsules open).

So I think I figured out what is causing my issue. When I pulled my last batch of snack sticks the casings were pretty stiff/hard. Like they were dried out from the cooking process. I let them sit in the fridge for a day before packaging and freezing, and the casings softened to what I would call normal.

Here is where the problem comes in. When I pull a pack out to thaw it sends like the casings really soften and stay to pull away from the meat. This gets worse the longer I let a pack sit in the fridge after opening.

Now that I think I know what is causing it, what the hell do I do about it?

You can dehydrate them or use natural sheeps instead of collogen.

Boykjo

 

[daveomak]

 

 

So I think I figured out what is causing my issue. When I pulled my last batch of snack sticks the casings were pretty stiff/hard. Like they were dried out from the cooking process. I let them sit in the fridge for a day before packaging and freezing, and the casings softened to what I would call normal.

Here is where the problem comes in. When I pull a pack out to thaw it sends like the casings really soften and stay to pull away from the meat. This gets worse the longer I let a pack sit in the fridge after opening.

Now that I think I know what is causing it, what the hell do I do about it?

  Think about this....  maybe there was too much moisture in the meat and it's continuing to dehydrate in the refer, pulling away from the casing...   I didn't read all the posts so put up with me here...   I've started using AmesPhos and it's discontinued.....  this is the same stuff...  . 500g, (1.1lb), 100% Pure Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Food Grade, KOSHER ...


It seems to hold onto moisture really well....  one of our members made a meat loaf and added it to it...   said it was the moistest meat loaf he ever made...   It's fairly inexpensive to use, especially if it makes great stix....   I use it in sausage at 0.4% the weight of the meat...  
 

One more thing, do you cool the stix after smoking or let them cool slowly and naturally...   If they cool slowly, the casing shrinks with the meat..   here's my stix.....

DSCF2203.JPG

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

21ffad72_StringKnotsoncasings.jpg

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

...

DSCF2204.JPG

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

These sticks were in the smoker for about 24 hours at 145-150 ish....    Notice the fat didn't melt... the sticks are moist...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/230920/beef-sticks-21mm-with-leggs-116-money-shot

The edible collagen casings were from Walton's...  They seem to be a high quality casing...  not all casings are the same...  and they were packaged in an air tight tube and I resealed what was left using the heat bar on the vacuum sealer....

https://www.waltonsinc.com/21mm-smoke-collagen-casings

 

[mkriet]

  Think about this....  maybe there was too much moisture in the meat and it's continuing to dehydrate in the refer, pulling away from the casing...   I didn't read all the posts so put up with me here...   I've started using AmesPhos and it's discontinued.....  this is the same stuff...  . 500g, (1.1lb), 100% Pure Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Food Grade, KOSHER ...
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0147LR9MY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=37309901GJVQE&coliid=I28CCRSPGSIH2K
It seems to hold onto moisture really well....  one of our members made a meat loaf and added it to it...   said it was the moistest meat loaf he ever made...   It's fairly inexpensive to use, especially if it makes great stix....   I use it in sausage at 0.4% the weight of the meat...  

 
One more thing, do you cool the stix after smoking or let them cool slowly and naturally...   If they cool slowly, the casing shrinks with the meat..   here's my stix.....

DSCF2203.JPG

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

...

21ffad72_StringKnotsoncasings.jpg

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

...

DSCF2204.JPG

• daveomak
• Dec 25, 2016

These sticks were in the smoker for about 24 hours at 145-150 ish....    Notice the fat didn't melt... the sticks are moist...

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/230920/beef-sticks-21mm-with-leggs-116-money-shot

The edible collagen casings were from Walton's...  They seem to be a high quality casing...  not all casings are the same...  and they were packaged in an air tight tube and I resealed what was left using the heat bar on the vacuum sealer....
https://www.waltonsinc.com/21mm-smoke-collagen-casings

Thanks Dave. I did let these cool slowly. I bought some natural sheep casings that I'm going to try this weekend. I've only used LEM collagen casings so far. I might have to try collagen from elsewhere.

 

[dward51]

 
I've started using AmesPhos and it's discontinued.....  this is the same stuff...  . 500g, (1.1lb), 100% Pure Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Food Grade, KOSHER ...


It seems to hold onto moisture really well....  one of our members made a meat loaf and added it to it...   said it was the moistest meat loaf he ever made...   It's fairly inexpensive to use, especially if it makes great stix....   I use it in sausage at 0.4% the weight of the meat...  
 

AmesPhos and other sausage making phosphates do work.  I've been using Butcher & Packer #414 "special meat binder" which is basically their version of AmesPhos (and it is less expensive).  Since it looks like AmesPhos is being discontinued, that would be a good alternative which was about 1/2 the price of AmesPhos.  I generally use a little less than B&P's recommended amount when is 2 ounce per 25 pounds of meat (or 2.27 grams per pound).  I use around 1.5 to 2 grams per pound and have had very good results.  I have been told by others wiser than I (NEPAS), not to overdo the phosphates as too much will negatively affect the final product. I pay attention to what he says. 

Also I have had very good results with B&P #414 in meatloaf and most recently meatballs.  Makes for a moist and less crumbly product.  You know what I'm talking about, everyone has had a meatloaf that did not hold together well (basically had no binders added and was not made by a sausage making fanatic).  I'm going try it in hamburgers next time I grind my own.  I've actually got a 3.5 pound batch of "The Dude's meatballs" in the oven now that have B&P #414 added (2nd batch today - it's a holiday staple around here).  So I may be the person DaveO was talking about above.  I'm a believer in phosphates in ground meat for sure.

 

[mkriet]

I got it, I got it!!!! I figured it out!!! Thanks to Boykjo's recent post I figured it out. He mentioned he leaves his sticks in a paper sack in the fridge for a week before packaging.

I only left mine in for like a day before packaging.

I pulled a pack of sticks out of the freezer, cut the bag open and threw them in the paper bag, and into the fridge. Came home after work to grind meat for my creations this weekend, and thought, "I need a snack stick while making snack sticks". I pulled one out and the casing was much better. I'm sure they would've got better with a couple more days, but I was hungry and ate dang near the whole bag. So glad I figured this out. I almost lost hope on the snack sticks. Now I wouldn't be afraid to make the whole dang batch into snack sticks this weekend.

 

[SmokyMose]

Great thread thanks guys. I am going to be taking a swing at snack sticks as soon as we get out of school for the holiday break.(I am a teacher) What is an average batch. I make sausage in 25 pound batches. that seems like it would be a whole lot of snack sticks? also any good recipes you might want to share? 

Yes, that would be a lot of snack sticks. I only do 5# batches.
I like Big Casino's beef stick recipe (do a search here). It's not for the faint hearted, though....

Dan

 

[more smoke]

I have had the same issue. I STUFFED and then placed them in the fridge over night....that was my issue. Now I mix,then stuff and smoke the following day. Casing are much better this way IMO..so far so good.