Issue with Snack Stick Casings

[mkriet]

I've made a couple batches of snack sticks and I've noticed one issue with the casings. After I get done cooking and everything and go to eat them, it's like the casing isnt sticking to the meat, and will come loose.

Has anyone else had this issue? I'm going to be making some next weekend and would like to figure out this issue before then.

 

[dirtsailor2003]

What type of casing? What type of meat? What's your recipe? Are you water bathing to finish? Are you drying the sticks prior to smoking?

We need more info man!

 

[JckDanls 07]

yup ... complete process will help us more...

 

[mkriet]

Sorry, I know better.

Collagen casings, beef. I think the recipe I used was called Greg's Snack Sticks. I did water bath, and I let dry for an hour or so after, then put in brown paper bag in the fridge for a day before packaging.

 

[mkriet]

I almost wonder if I didn't mix the meat enough. I watched some videos today that show mixing until the meat is super sticky.

Also wondering if an extra binder like nfdm would help. I did not use that in the past.

 

[JckDanls 07]

yes... when mixing meat.. I always say.... "mix until your tired of mixing... and then mix some more.. meat should be REALLY STICKY... so much so it's hard to clean your hands off ... I also use NFPM... but only at half the recommended dose... I use half a cup per 5 lbs ...

 

[bmudd14474]

What temp did you smoke them at?

 

[daveomak]

Yep... Sticky will help.....

DSCF2193.JPG

• daveomak
• Nov 24, 2016

 

[dirtsailor2003]

Yep... Sticky will help.....

DSCF2193.JPG

• daveomak
• Nov 24, 2016

Well if you talk to LEM customer service, you'd need to add 5 gallons of water to that glob in your hand so it will go through the stuffer...

 

[dward51]

It happens.

Also if the casings are not fresh, they are prone to not sticking to the finished product.  I have some I know are old and I am still using them.  I just plan on pealing the casings off after the stick are done.  Other than that I see no point in tossing them.  I seem to recall one way to check for freshness of collagen casings is to rub them on a sheet of paper. If it leaves a slightly oily mark, they are still good.  If it does not, they will be prone to not sticking to the meat.

And Dave O. is absolutely right. Mix until you think it's over mixed (but be careful if using ECA as you don't want to break the capsules open).

 

[dirtsailor2003]

[quote name="JckDanls 07" url="/t/255180/issue-with-snack-stick-casings] I also use NFPM....[/quote]

Naturally formed particulate matter? :)

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Keep your collagen casings in the fridge. I open the bag a day before stuffing to condition them.

 

[mkriet]

Naturally formed particulate matter? :)

Yeah, I meant NFDM lol.

I've been smoking at 130 no smoke for an hour, then bumping up ten degrees every hour till I get to 180.

I will throw the casings in the fridge, but when I've used them in the past I can feel the oil on my fingers, so I think they are okay.

I think I'll try mixing them better and see if that works. I know I've seen the meat mixers which look pretty handy, but are kinda expensive. Does anyone use a kitchen aid mixer to mix the meat? Thinking that might be easier than hand mixing, and I have one of those.

Also, is the water bath a requirement? I'm wondering if letting them hang outside in the cold would be fine? Thinking the water seems to soften the casings, and give it less"snap".

Thanks for the feedback so far.

 

[daveomak]

Think about the highest smoker temp of 160..    prevents fat out...  sticks stay moist....  

Below is a pasteurization table for non intact meat....   If you get the IT of the sticks to 140, and hold it there for 9 minutes or longer, they are safe to eat according to the chart....  

What I do is hold the sticks at 140 for an hour or so, to allow for any bad thermometer readings, cool spots inside the smoker.. etc... 

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

Temp °F / Time for 5.0 log Reduction

Unit Time

130..........86 min.

131 ..........69 min.

132......... 55 min.

133.......... 44 min.

134.......... 35 min.

135.......... 28 min.

136 ..........22 min.

137 ..........18 min.

138 ..........14 min.

139.......... 11 min.

140 ...........9 min.

141........... 7 min.

142 ...........6 min.

143 ...........5 min.

144 ...........4 min.

145 ...........3 min.

146 .........130 sec.

147......... 103 sec.

148 ...........82 sec.

149 ...........65 sec.

150........... 52 sec.

151........... 41 sec.

152........... 33 sec.

153 ...........26 sec.

154 ...........21 sec.

155 ...........17 sec.

156 ...........14 sec.

157 ...........11 sec.

158 .............0 sec.

159 .............0 sec.

160 .............0 sec.

The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.

This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes (Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).

________________________ 1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.

 

[mkriet]

So what you're saying is I can cook to an IT of 140 and hold for an hour, rather than getting the meat all the way up to 158?  

I'm not planning to keep these out on the counter or anything, I would be keeping them in the freezer until I pull them out to eat them, and they would keep in the fridge.  Let me know your thoughts.  I really appreciate all the feedback from all you experts.   I really enjoy doing this stuff, but I'm still fairly new to making sausage/snack sticks.  There is always time to learn more.  

 

[jhamm]

Great thread thanks guys. I am going to be taking a swing at snack sticks as soon as we get out of school for the holiday break.(I am a teacher) What is an average batch. I make sausage in 25 pound batches. that seems like it would be a whole lot of snack sticks? also any good recipes you might want to share? 

 

[mkriet]

I've made 5 pound batches in the past, but I'm ramping up production this time.  I'm thinking I will be doing about 10 pounds of snack sticks, and about 15 pounds of summer sausage this weekend.  

I did 5 pounds last time, and that made about 50 6 inch long snack sticks.  Sounds like a lot, but when you start giving stuff away as gifts, or taking to parties, its not as much as you think.  I made a batch about 3 weeks ago, and its about gone. 

As far as recipes, I'm still trying out different ones.  I will be using LEM snack sticks this week using the LEM seasoning, and plan to add some extra crushed red pepper and cayenne to kick it up a notch.   They have good flavor, just not as hot as I would like. 

 

[daveomak]

 
So what you're saying is I can cook to an IT of 140 and hold for an hour, rather than getting the meat all the way up to 158?  

I'm not planning to keep these out on the counter or anything, I would be keeping them in the freezer until I pull them out to eat them, and they would keep in the fridge.  Let me know your thoughts.  I really appreciate all the feedback from all you experts.   I really enjoy doing this stuff, but I'm still fairly new to making sausage/snack sticks.  There is always time to learn more.  

Pasteurizing is a product of TIME & TEMPERATURE...   Meat brought up to the recommended temp of 158, will see a (For example, a "5-log reduction" means lowering the number of microorganisms by 100,000-fold, that is, if a surface has 100,000 pathogenic microbes on it, a 5-log reduction would reduce the number of microorganisms to one. )

Meat cooked at 135 deg. F and held for 28 minutes will see the same reduction in pathogenic microbes as meat raised to 158 deg. F.....

Using this chart, or even extending the times recommended for personal preference, will insure safe to eat product without overcooking or having a "fat out" of your links... meat will be moister etc. ...  

If you trust the meat is safe to eat at 158, you can trust it will be safe following the chart if your temp gauges and thermometers and timers are accurate...

 

[mkriet]

Pasteurizing is a product of TIME & TEMPERATURE...   Meat brought up to the recommended temp of 158, will see a (For example, a "5-log reduction" means lowering the number of microorganisms by 100,000-fold, that is, if a surface has 100,000 pathogenic microbes on it, a 5-log reduction would reduce the number of microorganisms to one. )
Meat cooked at 135 deg. F and held for 28 minutes will see the same reduction in pathogenic microbes as meat raised to 158 deg. F.....
Using this chart, or even extending the times recommended for personal preference, will insure safe to eat product without overcooking or having a "fat out" of your links... meat will be moister etc. ...  
If you trust the meat is safe to eat at 158, you can trust it will be safe following the chart if your temp gauges and thermometers and timers are accurate...

Thank you Dave. I just wanted to confirm. I want to make sure I don't get anyone sick.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Not rocket science here.

You can pull the sticks at 150* rack them and it will IT to 152 on its own. (skip the cold water)

Your results may vary from mine.