Instacure #2 question

[You Enjoy Life]

i have a few clarifying questions about Instacure #2. Some say that you should not consume anything that has cured less than 30 days with Insta #2, I've also seen recipes that suggest using Insta #2 but then say it may be done in three weeks. Does it have to be 30 days to be safe? Or is if the sausage has lost 30-35% of its weight is it okay?

Also, if I am making sausage and during the process of stuffing have a little bit extra, is it safe to cook that raw sausage that is leftover (which has insta #2) in it, or is it better to get rid of it?

 

[SmokinEdge]

Smaller diameter sausage say 40mm and smaller should not use #2 because they will finish very close to 30 days, even 40 days is ok. Larger diameter is preferred to use #2 because they will take a couple to 3 months to finish. The sodium nitrate in cure #2 will vary in amount from manufacture from 1% to 4% the only way for nitrate to convert into nitrite and then into nitric oxide is by bacterial action, the bacteria must be present so with salami we ferment with a culture and we know bacteria is present because we add it, but with dried non fermented sausage we can not know if these bacteria exist in sufficient quantities and as such I don’t use cure #2 In these dried sausages.

As far as eating left over meat mix with nitrate in it, it’s really not a problem unless you fry it, frying it can cause the formation of nitrosamines which are carcinogenic. You could roll it into a sausage and plastic bag it and poach it in water. You would intake way more nitrate from a green leafy salad.

 

[Dave in AZ]

i have a few clarifying questions about Instacure #2. Some say that you should not consume anything that has cured less than 30 days with Insta #2, I've also seen recipes that suggest using Insta #2 but then say it may be done in three weeks. Does it have to be 30 days to be safe? Or is if the sausage has lost 30-35% of its weight is it okay?

Also, if I am making sausage and during the process of stuffing have a little bit extra, is it safe to cook that raw sausage that is leftover (which has insta #2) in it, or is it better to get rid of it?

I agree with all SmokingEdge said above, but will add info for the 15 to 30 day timeframe. He has good advice for diameter, etc, and cooking temps.

1. Cure 1 is used for things That are done 15 days or less. If process longer than 15 days, cure2 ensures ongoing nitrite is produced to continue protecting meat.
2. You need to read Good books like Marianski, and follow good recipes. As smokingedge said above, the nitrAte requires bacterial action to convert to nitrite, and they don't do well at low temps. So with cure2, you need to be sure you're drying at reasonable temps above 45f, up to 53 or so. This ensures bacterial reduction to nitrites.
3. That gap between 15 and 30 days... so long as your product was held 45 to 55f so nitrate conversion happens, you are fine after the 15 days and before the 30 days, it will have been reducing the whole time, slowly.
HOWEVER.... it doesn't need to be an issue. If your product is sufficiently dried at say 20 days, and you're worried? Stop the drying process, stick it in a bag in fridge. Some conversion bacteria already exist now and will continue to work.

Don't fry your product at high heat, as smokingedge says, and the issue of nitrates is rendered moot.

Concerning eating/tasting product with cure in it... if it had a cure accelerator, then cook it up. If not, then yeah, youre eating a bunch of nitrite/nitrate. But again, if you followed correct recipe, the amounts even on day1 raw, are within usfda guides (if not dry rub curing). And maybe your celery has more, who knows what you're eating. This is like the current troll-bait question... just go watch the video at 2guysandaCooler, and make your own decision based on the excellent info he presents...
... there will be a bunch of dudes here with anecdotal " my grandpa smoked 5 packs a day and ate raw cure2 lunch and dinner, and lived to 120!", or "it never hurt me yet!". Decide how you want to weigh their input vs. the usfda etc, and make your own call. Discussions have all turned to cr@p on this, so far. I like SmokinEdge advice on it above for temperature etc.

If you're worried, you can add vitaminC at 1g per kg meat, so like 1/20th of a tablet for a meat patty, ground up with a bit of water, to accelerate the cure in your tasting patty, it does both nitrates and nitrites. And don't hard fry it up like bacon. Takes you about 45 seconds to do, problem solved.
Best regards, hope that input helps ;)

 

[SmokinEdge]

I agree with all SmokingEdge said above, but will add info for the 15 to 30 day timeframe. He has good advice for diameter, etc, and cooking temps.

1. Cure 1 is used for things That are done 15 days or less. If process longer than 15 days, cure2 ensures ongoing nitrite is produced to continue protecting meat.
2. You need to read Good books like Marianski, and follow good recipes. As smokingedge said above, the nitrAte requires bacterial action to convert to nitrite, and they don't do well at low temps. So with cure2, you need to be sure you're drying at reasonable temps above 45f, up to 53 or so. This ensures bacterial reduction to nitrites.
3. That gap between 15 and 30 days... so long as your product was held 45 to 55f so nitrate conversion happens, you are fine after the 15 days and before the 30 days, it will have been reducing the whole time, slowly.
HOWEVER.... it doesn't need to be an issue. If your product is sufficiently dried at say 20 days, and you're worried? Stop the drying process, stick it in a bag in fridge. Some conversion bacteria already exist now and will continue to work.

Don't fry your product at high heat, as smokingedge says, and the issue of nitrates is rendered moot.

Concerning eating/tasting product with cure in it... if it had a cure accelerator, then cook it up. If not, then yeah, youre eating a bunch of nitrite/nitrate. But again, if you followed correct recipe, the amounts even on day1 raw, are within usfda guides (if not dry rub curing). And maybe your celery has more, who knows what you're eating. This is like the current troll-bait question... just go watch the video at 2guysandaCooler, and make your own decision based on the excellent info he presents...
... there will be a bunch of dudes here with anecdotal " my grandpa smoked 5 packs a day and ate raw cure2 lunch and dinner, and lived to 120!", or "it never hurt me yet!". Decide how you want to weigh their input vs. the usfda etc, and make your own call. Discussions have all turned to cr@p on this, so far. I like SmokinEdge advice on it above for temperature etc.

If you're worried, you can add vitaminC at 1g per kg meat, so like 1/20th of a tablet for a meat patty, ground up with a bit of water, to accelerate the cure in your tasting patty, it does both nitrates and nitrites. And don't hard fry it up like bacon. Takes you about 45 seconds to do, problem solved.
Best regards, hope that input helps ;)

Evening Dave.

Just want to clear up a couple things here.

Cure #1 is not just used for products up to 15 days. It is used for products of about 30 days and is fine up to about 40 days or so. It takes at least 45 days for the bacteria (if present in sufficient quantities) to develop enough to start reducing nitrate into nitrite In cure #2, not 20 or 30 days. You are correct that the bacteria necessary to convert nitrate to nitrite needs to be in the right temp range but that temp is 45-59* Fahrenheit.

Cure accelerators are great and I do use them, but never in a long cured application because they burn up the nitrites to fast. Sodium erythorbate is pretty much the accelerator of choice but should never be used on a long cure project as it is counter productive for that application, it’s best used in cured sausage to be smoked/cooked and in large whole muscle that is injected like hams.

No offense, but your experience is certainly not mine, and I’m thinking you should go back and re-read Marianski. Specifically the Fermented Sausage book. I’m not convinced that you completely understand the process, again, no offense.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Oops, I misspoke. I did indeed mean 30 days for the cutoff between cure one and two. I was remembering something else and didn't go back and reference.
As far as the Cure accelerator goes that was completely pointed towards his question of eating a Patty right after he made it, and had nothing to do with any sausage curing comments.