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I Made a "daveomak" Ham Using a Picnic Shoulder, a Loin, & a Boneless Butt.

chopsaw

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I dont have an answer to that , just an opinion . Sounds logical , but I think the meat itself would play a larger part in that . Depending on muscle volume vs fat seams . Again just my opinion .
I inject as much as it will hold , then pour what leaks out into the bag .
I've found that after 14 days there is not much liquid left in the bag .
 

daveomak

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I think, as time passes, more liquid is affected by the STPP...
Joe Ames makes some really good stuff.....
 

thirdeye

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Part 2, featuring a center cut pork loin ham is underway. There are no changes in the recipe from post #1. I did some technique changes that I'll list below.

The loin cured for 9 days, then rinsed and rested uncovered in the fridge for 18 hours. I added a sprinkle of black pepper. I started at 0630 today with cold smoking in my Mini WSM at 70° using my A-Maze-N tube with crushed Pitmaster Blend pellets.

At 11:30 the smoker temp was 93°, so I prepped my Big Chief for hanging, added a water pan, and allowed the temperature to ramp up to 120°, 140, and to 150°. At 3:30 (or 9 hours in the smoke) the loin internal is 108° and is within 1° top to bottom. I'm shooting for a 140° finish temp. Here are f few photo's along the way.
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This was right after the initial lighting of the tube. It calmed down to about half this amount.
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6:30 this morning.
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Going into the Big Chief
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thirdeye

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I finally got the Big Chief up to 175°, and by 5:30 the internal temp was 125°. By 7:30 the internal temp was 137° so I shut it down and let the meat hang for another 45 minutes and it crept above 140°. This was a total smoking time of 13 hours.
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I tried a few slices mid morning, and the flavor is great, moisture is a little better than the picnic (but the internal target temp was 25° less). The rind is softer than the picnic, but I generally trim the heavier areas anyway. Saltiness is spot on for my tastes, the smokiness is really nice and by nature of a loin the ham is very tender. The fat percentage of a loin is 12 to 15% (where a butt is 20 to 30%) and the fact it slices so easily makes this a great value.

Next up is a butt, which I'll be smoking early next week.
 

daveomak

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You can use the pasteurization table for the picnics also.... Makes them moist and tender....

The pasteurization times for beef, lamb and pork are listed in Table C.1. Table C.2 lists the pasteurization times for chicken and turkey.
Temperature... ....... Time.... ....... Temperature... ........ Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
130 (54.4)........... 112 min
131 (55.0) ......... 89 min...........
132 (55.6).......... 71 min............
133 (56.1).................. 56 min............
134 (56.7).................. 45 min...........
135 (57.2).................. 36 min............
136 (57.8).................. 28 min...........
137 (58.4)................. 23 min............
138 (58.9).................. 18 min...........
139 (59.5).................. 15 min ...........
140 (60.0).................... 12 min............
141 (60.6).................. 9 min..............
142 (61.1).................. 8 min.............
143 (61.7).................. 6 min
144 (62.2).................. 5 min
145 (62.8).................. 4 min
Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).
 

chopsaw

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I tried a few slices mid morning, and the flavor is great,
Looks great . I found that after being vac'd and in the freezer for awhile makes them even better .
I just had a couple threads on double smoked loins . That double smoke really comes out good .
 

thirdeye

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You can use the pasteurization table for the picnics also.... Makes them moist and tender....

The pasteurization times for beef, lamb and pork are listed in Table C.1. Table C.2 lists the pasteurization times for chicken and turkey.
Temperature... ....... Time.... ....... Temperature... ........ Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)
130 (54.4)........... 112 min
131 (55.0) ......... 89 min...........
132 (55.6).......... 71 min............
133 (56.1).................. 56 min............
134 (56.7).................. 45 min...........
135 (57.2).................. 36 min............
136 (57.8).................. 28 min...........
137 (58.4)................. 23 min............
138 (58.9).................. 18 min...........
139 (59.5).................. 15 min ...........
140 (60.0).................... 12 min............
141 (60.6).................. 9 min..............
142 (61.1).................. 8 min.............
143 (61.7).................. 6 min
144 (62.2).................. 5 min
145 (62.8).................. 4 min
Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).
Agreed, when cooking naturally tender things like chicken breast or pork loin. I'm following along with using the pasturazation, or 7-log-10 reduction tables.

I've always taken rear leg hams or picnics to that 165° range for tenderness and a little more fat rendering. However.... When I Buckboard a butt, I've had some good ones as low as 150°.


Looks great . I found that after being vac'd and in the freezer for awhile makes them even better .
I just had a couple threads on double smoked loins . That double smoke really comes out good .
I thought about doing a two-day cold smoke routine like I do on bacon.... maybe 5 or 6 hours, then back to the fridge. 5 or 6 hours on day two, and either go on to a warm/hot smoke for the finish.... or chill overnight and warm/hot smoke on day three.
 

daveomak

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I used to take rear leg hams to 165-170... Not any longer... I'm getting to like pig rare to med-rare...
Maybe the older I get, I don't think there is enough time left to cook meats well done.. like buying green bananas... LOL
 

chopsaw

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I take mine to 145 . Butts , loins or picnics . The double smoked are done to 145 , then glazed and smoked again to 145 at a later date.
 

gary s

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Looks Great, I'll bet it is Tasty

Gary
 

thirdeye

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Chapter 3 of this experiment - Using an 8# boneless butt, is now complete.

There are no changes in the injection ratios other than adjusting for the weight of the butt. I used a 14 day cure time, followed by a rinse and a soak with 3 changes of water over two hours. Refrigerated equalization time of 18 hours. Of course my smoking time was longer, due to the size and weight. And for this ham I did lower the internal finish temperature from my standard of 165°ish, to 150° (in the thickest portion), the tapered end was closer to 158°.

I shaped the butt to be more 'ham like' since the processor was somewhat generous with the knife when removing the blade bone. Next time, I will remove the bone, and keep the roast more rectangular. I netted it with the money muscle end down, so I had a reference for slicing to show all the muscle groups.... like a pork steak is sliced.
bNqcilS.jpg
This is after a few hours of cold smoking in my Mini WSM
kAS743Y.jpg
After 11 or 12 hours of cold smoke, I moved the ham into my Big Chief starting off at 120° and ramping up to 160° over a 5 or 6 hour period until the internal was 150°. Total smoke time was around 17 hours.
eXcDbSX.jpg
After 24 hours of blooming in the fridge
cooFdhy.jpg
First slice of the chilled ham and a test fry
fu0aDeJ.jpg
MvkZvOW.jpg

The overall flavor and smokiness was slightly better than the picnic or the loin, I'm guessing because of a better fat percentage and the few additional days of curing. The moistness was just a good as the picnic or loin hams. I like having a boneless ham for the ease and looks of the slices (especially the different shades of the various muscle groups in the butt).

Bottom line is.... this recipe is a keeper as-is. I would list the butt ham as my favorite, closely following is the loin ham (closely because it's 6% or 7% lower in fat and a tick more tender), and the picnic comes in third, mainly because the L-bone is harder to work around when slicing and there is a lot of skin weight that gets tossed. Five other people have gotten samples of the various hams and everyone has given it a :emoji_thumbsup: . I'm thinking about a sandwich right now.....
 

chopsaw

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Very nice . First time I did the whole boneless butt , I didn't like the amount of fat inside . After slicing it works out great .
I have two loins in the fridge right now 3 lbs each . I did change one up to try a spicy version . We'll see .
I'm in the no changes needed camp , but been wanting to try this ( spicy ) for awhile .
Try that dipped in BBQ sauce sandwich . Good stuff .
Nice job with all the smokes and putting your thoughts out for us .
 

thirdeye

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Very nice . First time I did the whole boneless butt , I didn't like the amount of fat inside . After slicing it works out great .
I have two loins in the fridge right now 3 lbs each . I did change one up to try a spicy version . We'll see .
I'm in the no changes needed camp , but been wanting to try this ( spicy ) for awhile .
Try that dipped in BBQ sauce sandwich . Good stuff .
Nice job with all the smokes and putting your thoughts out for us .
Adding some signature spices doesn't really affect the base technique, I may try a layer of pepper on my next loin because I really that back flavor on bacon. Yep, trimming off a heavier edge or some internal fat is not a big deal, and a little of the edge is really tasty, I can work around it especially since home cured meats are so authentic. Who knows, our ancestors might have the same kind of griddled breakfast I did.... but they used a wood burning stove.
PxmJ9j8.jpg
 

chopsaw

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That plate brings back a memory . We were on vacation camping in Kentucky . I was around 12 years old . Family of 6 , 3 girls and me . Times he would just do me and him things . Took me to breakfast at a little diner by the side of the road . Ham steak and red eye gravy . That smoky smell , salty taste and texture of that ham is something I remember 50 plus years later .
Sorry for the detour , but that big slice of ham takes me back .
 

thirdeye

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That plate brings back a memory . We were on vacation camping in Kentucky . I was around 12 years old . Family of 6 , 3 girls and me . Times he would just do me and him things . Took me to breakfast at a little diner by the side of the road . Ham steak and red eye gravy . That smoky smell , salty taste and texture of that ham is something I remember 50 plus years later .
Sorry for the detour , but that big slice of ham takes me back .
I know what you mean. That griddle with the bail belonged to my grandmother and is a Wagner Ware 10". I suspect she got it in the mid-thirties to early forties. I enjoy using those kind of hand-me-downs for that same reason.
 

motocrash

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thirdeye thirdeye all your hams look great. :emoji_thumbsup:

I used to take rear leg hams to 165-170... Not any longer... I'm getting to like pig rare to med-rare...
Maybe the older I get, I don't think there is enough time left to cook meats well done.. like buying green bananas... LOL
Well, thanks for taking the time to drive the bus Dave. :emoji_trophy:

1603761284080.png
 

zzerru

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View attachment 452372

After reading through THIS thread I had to give this technique a try, I'm a big fan of injecting for flavor, and have used injectable brines and cures with good success, so Dave's method for injecting a curing solution was right up my alley. I followed the recipe exactly and stayed very close to the technique. My results were fantastic. Here are the ingredients and the ratios I used:
View attachment 452373 View attachment 452374
I mixed everything together in order using a shaker, and injected almost all of the mixture. The remainder was added to the curing bag. I did a daily overhaul
View attachment 452375

The skin was removed and I did trim some loose tags of meat.

View attachment 452376

I cured my ham for 11 days, rinsed and did a 2 hour soak out changing the water 3 times. I allowed 24 hours uncovered in the fridge to equalize and form the pellicle. On smoking day I got started early while the temps were in the low 50°s. I was able to keep my Big Chief in a warm smoke zone between 90° to 110° for 6.5 hours. Then I ramped up the temp to 140°, then to 160° over a couple of hours. Next I moved the ham into a 200° Big Green Egg to get the IT up to 165°.

Here is my initial set-up and ham going into the smoker at 5:00am I did bind the ham with some cooking twine to set the shape.
View attachment 452377
View attachment 452378
Here is a view from the Ham-Cam 4 or 5 hours into the warm smoke.
View attachment 452379
This is in the 200° Egg, The ham really plumped up as the internal temp rose, actually leaking juice in a couple of spots.
View attachment 452380
When the IT was 155°, I covered the pan, and in 20 minutes the internal was up to temp.
View attachment 452381
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I rested again in the fridge for 20 hours, then took some sample slices from the shank end, and warmed up some more for breakfast a couple of hours later.
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:emoji_thumbsup: Here is what I liked: The technique really is "easy peasy", and a zipper bag takes up way less room than a plastic bucket. The salt level is mild, which is perfect for us. The vegetable stock truly adds and enhances the overall flavor (I never would have guessed that). The moistness was very noticeable, and the color, texture and tenderness are what a ham should be like. Just like Dave said in his post, I don't see any reason to adjust anything, although I might break my smoking into two days like I do on bacon. My impressions so far is that this ham tastes like it came from a specialty meat producer, it's defiantly not a mass produced "city ham" variety. Next time I need to find a picnic in the 8 to 9 pound range.
Would you be willing to share that handy spreadsheet?
 
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