how much to smoke a cured ham for resale

[hugho]

We had 3 pigs butchered and processed. I told them I wanted to cure and smoke my hams myself . It didn't happen. They cured and cut the hams with nitrite/brn sugar by injection but did not cook or smoke them. What should I do now to sell them? Paritally smoke them for flavor to a modest internal temperature and refreeze them to allow the customer to do a full cook on their own ? Do a full smoke and grill on my masterbuilt 1050 and sell as cooked ham? They even sliced some of my cured ham with the bone in which I did not ask.. What are my options to sell to the public for the best product? Smoking all these hams as fully cooked is a huge undertaking. If I have to smke and cook all of them can I then refreeze them? What temps and times? The rest of their processing was first rate.

 

[tallbm]

Hi there and welcome!

Because your plans have been thrown out of whack I personally I would smoke these up and plan to just keep them for personal consumption or as ham filler items like for hash, diced ham, salads, etc. because this seems like a very big learning experience. It is hard to nail something the first time ESPECIALLY if it has already gone wrong before it even started :)
If everything just so happens to go off perfectly well you can determine how best to sell them according to what your food business services allow.

Now on to cooking talk! :)

If they are cured and uncooked I would simply hot smoke them at 275F smoker temp.
I don't know what rules/laws you may have to follow to sell them publicly but hit that Internal Temp on the meat so you are covered (you probably have to hit 165F internal temp of meat).

If I was keeping them for myself I would smoke to a meat IT (Internal Temp) of 145F.

Apply smoke smoke of your choosing. Beware applying too much straight hickory for too long.

Now understand that I'm not some ham guru but I have smoked a pair of wild boar hams and just this past year I cured and smoked 25 pounds of bone in pork shoulder for my holiday hams. All came out great!

You can read about my last ham adventure here:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/anyone-use-star-anise-for-curing-hams.311465/page-3

I hope this info helps :)

 

[pineywoods]

Welcome to SMF glad you joined us. I think the first thing I'd want to know is what did they use for cure and how did they go it. If it was done properly I think I'd probably go ahead and smoke it and freeze after. As for selling it that depends on the rules and regulations in your state, county, city where I am they would not allow curing or smoking it then selling it unless it was done in a commercial kitchen and an approved smoker inside or out.

 

[DougE]

Welcome to SMF glad you joined us. I think the first thing I'd want to know is what did they use for cure and how did they go it. If it was done properly I think I'd probably go ahead and smoke it and freeze after. As for selling it that depends on the rules and regulations in your state, county, city where I am they would not allow curing or smoking it then selling it unless it was done in a commercial kitchen and an approved smoker inside or out.

And was the meat USDA inspected at the processor. AFAIK, you can't sell any meat commercially that hasn't been blessed by the USDA. Well, not legally, anyhow.

 

[pineywoods]

And was the meat USDA inspected at the processor. AFAIK, you can't sell any meat commercially that hasn't been blessed by the USDA. Well, not legally, anyhow.

That's pretty much how it works here however some states are allowing small farmers to sell some things from the farm without USDA inspection. FL has started allowing a few things to be sold straight from the farm to consumer without inspection but at the same time they are making it harder to sell other stuff that has been found at farmer's markets for years like produce

 

[DougE]

That's pretty much how it works here however some states are allowing small farmers to sell some things from the farm without USDA inspection. FL has started allowing a few things to be sold straight from the farm to consumer without inspection but at the same time they are making it harder to sell other stuff that has been found at farmer's markets for years like produce

I've read that some states have relaxed the standards some. Here in Ky, I can't process meat I raised, and sell it. I can send it out to a processor, have it USDA inspected, and then sell it. I can pass on the inspection if it's for my own freezer, though.

 

[pineywoods]

I've read that some states have relaxed the standards some. Here in Ky, I can't process meat I raised, and sell it. I can send it out to a processor, have it USDA inspected, and then sell it. I can pass on the inspection if it's for my own freezer, though.

Can you get your freezers approved that's that what people have been doing here the last few years. Take or send the animal to a USDA approved butcher and have them vacuum seal the individual cuts of meat then take it home and put it in their freezer "on the farm" that has been approved or so they claim. They then take ice chests of meat to the Farmer's Markets and sell it there. Not sure what or how the "on farm freezers" get inspected or approved but that's what they claim they are doing. Yet they have decided that if I grow a vegetable and don't do anything other than pick it and sell it I have to take a safety class and also have a food safety plan for my farm and of course an inspection.

 

[DougE]

Can you get your freezers approved that's that what people have been doing here the last few years

That I don't know. I do know that the processors will use packaging with the USDA seal if you're going to sell the meat, but most everyone I know just has them processed for their own freezers. I know some people who skirt the rules and all that, but I don't think I know anyone who had beef processed with the intention of selling it retail. We do sometimes sell an animal on the hoof, make processing arrangements, and haul the animal to the processor, but it's up to the buyer to pick up and pay the processor. We just get paid for the animal/hauling.

 

[indaswamp]

Good discussion...

I looked into all this 2 years ago. But I don't remember all the little details. Lot of red tape to jump through.

 

[pineywoods]

That I don't know. I do know that the processors will use packaging with the USDA seal if you're going to sell the meat, but most everyone I know just has them processed for their own freezers. I know some people who skirt the rules and all that, but I don't think I know anyone who had beef processed with the intention of selling it retail. We do sometimes sell an animal on the hoof, make processing arrangements, and haul the animal to the processor, but it's up to the buyer to pick up and pay the processor. We just get paid for the animal/hauling.

Most of the farms/ranches around here do as you do and sell either the whole animal, 1/2, or quarter and deliver the animal to the processor where the people that bought it pay for the processing and wrapping but there are some that do it the other way and sell it by the piece.

 

[hugho]

Welcome to SMF glad you joined us. I think the first thing I'd want to know is what did they use for cure and how did they go it. If it was done properly I think I'd probably go ahead and smoke it and freeze after. As for selling it that depends on the rules and regulations in your state, county, city where I am they would not allow curing or smoking it then selling it unless it was done in a commercial kitchen and an approved smoker inside or out.

 

[hugho]

Thanks Piney. I used a USDA plant which was clean and efficient. They needle injected a brn sugar cure per their usual recipe with commercial needles. Not smoked or cooked. Frozen solid. We can sell our produce and lamb on our farmer's market and can sell meat if from a USDA processor.. I would prefer to sell my hams and let the customer cook or smoke them to their spec, typically 145 deg . I raised these berksires on milk and hay and some pork feed. and they were pastured and not confined. We have only cooked the chops and cured and smoked some bacon. Both were to die for. I have only previously raised durocs and yorksire pigs in years past but these yorkies seem mighty tasty and the meat is dark like our elk and mule deer here. We have 1000 lbs to deal with and wish we could eat it all.

 

[hugho]

Hi there and welcome!

Because your plans have been thrown out of whack I personally I would smoke these up and plan to just keep them for personal consumption or as ham filler items like for hash, diced ham, salads, etc. because this seems like a very big learning experience. It is hard to nail something the first time ESPECIALLY if it has already gone wrong before it even started :)
If everything just so happens to go off perfectly well you can determine how best to sell them according to what your food business services allow.

Now on to cooking talk! :)

If they are cured and uncooked I would simply hot smoke them at 275F smoker temp.
I don't know what rules/laws you may have to follow to sell them publicly but hit that Internal Temp on the meat so you are covered (you probably have to hit 165F internal temp of meat).

If I was keeping them for myself I would smoke to a meat IT (Internal Temp) of 145F.

Apply smoke smoke of your choosing. Beware applying too much straight hickory for too long.

Now understand that I'm not some ham guru but I have smoked a pair of wild boar hams and just this past year I cured and smoked 25 pounds of bone in pork shoulder for my holiday hams. All came out great!

You can read about my last ham adventure here:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/anyone-use-star-anise-for-curing-hams.311465/page-3

I hope this info helps :)

Thank you for your reply. We used a USDA shop. I wanted to do my own cures but they cured the hams and thankfully not the bellys which I have now done.I would like to sell the cured but not smoked or cooked hams and sell them as raw ham if our farmer's market will let me. If not I guess I am committed to smoking and cooking them myself before sale. These berkshire pigs have dark meat and the chops and roasts are very sweet and tender.. Previously I only raised durocs and yorkshires..We have two large pork legs to deal with and plan to try to make prosciuitto or parma hams. There is a lot of demand here in wyoming for local pastured pork. We have 2 masterbuilt smokers, a big gravity feed and a smaller electric one. I am a newbie to charcuterie but have raised livestock and poultry of all types for years. One thing we have learned is that if you want good meat and milk and eggs, you need to raise and milk them yourself. Our veal was strictly milk fed from his Jersey mama(no grain, a little grass) and was the best meat we have ever eaten anywhere. Commercial meat and milk is tasteless, particularly pork. we get a lot of free expired milk and just pour it on our gardens and fields.It's not fit to drink for human consumption but the pigs and chickens seem to like it!

 

[tallbm]

Thank you for your reply. We used a USDA shop. I wanted to do my own cures but they cured the hams and thankfully not the bellys which I have now done.I would like to sell the cured but not smoked or cooked hams and sell them as raw ham if our farmer's market will let me. If not I guess I am committed to smoking and cooking them myself before sale. These berkshire pigs have dark meat and the chops and roasts are very sweet and tender.. Previously I only raised durocs and yorkshires..We have two large pork legs to deal with and plan to try to make prosciuitto or parma hams. There is a lot of demand here in wyoming for local pastured pork. We have 2 masterbuilt smokers, a big gravity feed and a smaller electric one. I am a newbie to charcuterie but have raised livestock and poultry of all types for years. One thing we have learned is that if you want good meat and milk and eggs, you need to raise and milk them yourself. Our veal was strictly milk fed from his Jersey mama(no grain, a little grass) and was the best meat we have ever eaten anywhere. Commercial meat and milk is tasteless, particularly pork. we get a lot of free expired milk and just pour it on our gardens and fields.It's not fit to drink for human consumption but the pigs and chickens seem to like it!

Thanks for the info!


FYI, charcuterie is a different curing process and uses cure #2 versus something like the injected ham you mention which I'm pretty sure is using cure #1.

Anything like prosciutto and such needs cure #2 and a controlled environment for aging. No heat cooking occurs with it. There is also the process of doing something like a "Country Ham" style that may not use any cures and "curing" is achieved by ensuring there is like 10% salt Equilibrium throughout the meat and a minimum % amount of weight loss in a controlled environment. This is even more complex than cure#2 approaches but is similar.

It is very IMPORTANT to know the differences in all of those 3 of those curing approaches, when to use one versus the other and what is involved with each of them.

Again, I'd bet money your hams were injected and prepped fur a cure#1 type product like a holiday style ham or sandwich meat ham from a whole leg.

Now that the hams have been injected and ready to go, I think you are on the clock for getting them out the door. My guess is that you may want to smoke them yourself and then you can offer smoked ham products to move the meat as fast as possible since the process has already been started for you.
Next time you can tell the people you want to receive your hams as "green" and that should indicate no prep, cure, etc. Just raw ham legs.

If you smoke/cook and vac seal those hams and freeze them, you should be able to move them whenever as though they are holiday hams, but of higher quality and crafted with more care than the big plant hams.

I hope this info helps :)

 

[pineywoods]

I agree I would smoke and fully cook them and sell them that way just as most stores do but yours would actually be real smoked ham. I think in the future you may want some both ways whether you cure them or have the processor do it. A lot of people wouldn't know how to cure it or smoke it so would want it done a few will want to do it themselves