How do I get hot dogs more "tender" ??

[old frenchie]

I've made hot dogs with all-beef and others with  beef and pork. I have used "mixes" from various companies as well as recipes from these forums.

All have very good flavor but they are all less "tender" than store bought. They are not exactly tough ... just not all that tender.

As I get older (and older and older) I'm having difficulty chewing and would prefer a more tender product.

How can I get them more tender.  I'm using the max 5% soy Protein and make sure they have 20% fat. I emulsify the meat as called for.  I also smoke them at low temps (120*F)  and finish them in a hot water bath (160*F).

Would adding some chicken make them softer?

Could I add NFDM (up to 12%) in addition to the Soy Protein (that is already at max) to soften them up?

I've tried skipping the smoking step, adding liquid smoke, and just poaching them. But, they remain "grey" in color rather than the typical pink color even when I add cure to them. The texture though is nice and tender.

Any suggestions ??? 

Thanks,

Roger

 

[DanMcG]

I've tried skipping the smoking step, adding liquid smoke, and just poaching them. But, they remain "grey" in color rather than the typical pink color even when I add cure to them. The texture though is nice and tender.[

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Not sure why you'd get a grey sausage after you added cure. some times a tough or chewy sausage is due to over mixing...

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Don't use any binders, soy, milk powder, etc.



~Martin

 

[big casino]

is it the actually meat in the hot dog or is it the casing you are referring as tough?

 

[shoneyboy]

I'm getting ready to try this for the first time and just wanted to see where this went.......SB

 

[dward51]

Most store bought dogs are case less (the normal grocery store type such as Oscar Meyer, etc..., not the high end "old style"ones).  They use a casing that is stripped off at the end of the cooking process as is often evidenced by that very thin line which is a cut running on one side of the dog.

Some people like the "snap" of a cased dog, but the stuff we all ate as kids is probably case less.

So is it the case or the meat that's tough?

 

[old frenchie]

Don't use any binders, soy, milk powder, etc.
~Martin

Thanks for the reply ...

I'm a newbie at this.   I thought the binders would help retain moisture thus be more tender.  It seems from your reply that this must not be the case.

Can you help me understand why leaving these out would make the dogs more tender?

Thanks again Martin !!!

 

[old frenchie]

is it the actually meat in the hot dog or is it the casing you are referring as tough?

Hi Big Casino .... thanks for the response.

It is actually the meat ... I've tried seveveral types of casings and all were fine.  I use the cellulose mostly, which I understand is the same as the commercial manufacturers use. I then just strip them off after smokimg/Hot-Bath and before vacuum sealing and freezing. They end up being "skinless" like store bought dogs.

 

[diggingdogfarm]

They (the binders) toughen things up, especially fine ground meats.
I've had venison hot dogs that friends had done up at some of the meat cutters around here who use soy, they were the texture of a pencil eraser!!!!! :icon_eek: Not at all appealing!
The best premium hot dogs, Vienna Beef, Hoffmann's etc. never use soy.


~Martin

 

[old frenchie]

They (the binders) toughen things up, especially fine ground meats.
I've had venison hot dogs that friends had done up at some of the meat cutters around here who use soy, they were the texture of a pencil eraser!!!!!

Not at all appealing!
The best premium hot dogs, Vienna Beef, Hoffmann's etc. never use soy.
~Martin

That's it ! ! !  ... that is what I was "trying" to describe !!!! Not tough/dry but kind of "rubbery" like a pencil eraser.

I can't wait to try another small test batch without the soy .... if that is my only problem I will be a very happy old man ... and I will owe you a beer or two

Thanks again Martin.

Roger

 

[diggingdogfarm]

I must say though, that, IMHO, hot dogs are one of the most difficult sausages to make consistently in a perfect way. The way I prefer them anyway.

Best of luck!


~Martin

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Not sure why you'd get a grey sausage after you added cure. some times a tough or chewy sausage is due to over mixing...

X2

 

[boykjo]

There all good answers....I dont use binders in hotdogs and never had a problem......

Joe

 

[big casino]

I just made a batch with  NFDM 1cup per 5lb of meat and they are not "eraser" tough (lol),  and I actually thought they could have had a lil more "bite" to them but every one else loves them, sometimes I think we are our own worse crittics, I never used soy protein maybe I should try to use a little of each next time

 

[old frenchie]

Thanks everyone for the help... I really appreciate it. 

Although a newbie, I have already made some fantastic sausages. Never thought this possible. Books helped some but most of my sucesses are a direct result of folks like you that have helped me on the various forums. I obviously still have "a lot" to learn.

I love hot dogs but used to eat them sparingly because of the fear of what was going into them by commerical companies. Now that I can make them with quality meats (and no strange body parts) and no chemicals (other than Nitrite) I am enjoying eating them more often.

Thanks agin ... I will keep trying until I get the texture correct.

Roger

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Ya know what they say.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

There all good answers....I dont use binders in hotdogs and never had a problem......

Joe

X2

 

[old frenchie]

X2

Hi Rick !!

I have extreme confidence and the highest admiration for your sausage making skills and knowledge ... your are the "king"!

So.... please help this newbie understand this soy/NFDM issue..

Almost all recipes I see in Kutas' book, in Charcuterie (Ruhlman & Polcyn),  those online by Len Poli, those posted by other reputable folks, etc.  list NFDM and/or Soy Protein as an ingredient in the recipes. I thought this was to plump up and retain moisture which I (incorrectly?) assumed would add to the tenderness. Based on the above comments it appears I am incorrect and simply do not understand why NFDM/Soy-Protein is added to these sausages.

Should I leave the NFDM/Soy-Protein out of those recipes for a more tender sausage also?  When should I use them and when should I leave them out???

Thanks Rick ... any help is greatly appreciated ... (help from anyone else is also greatly welcomed and appreciated too),

P.S. I just made a quick 1 lb batch of hot dogs ... no NFDM/Soy-Protein ... and poached-only only (no smoker).  They came out fantastic ... and they were pink !!  Last time I may have rushed things a bit too much and not let the nitrite do its thing (?) or I may have poached them too hot/quickly ... this time I let them set up a bit then gave them 20 minutes in a 160*F bath (to an IT of 155*F)  ... they came out pink ... then I fried one up in a pan and they are "pure heaven" !!

 Now I'm now a happy camper!!

Roger

 

[big casino]

here is a page I keep tucked away it has sausage ingredients and what they are used for

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?674-SAUSAGE-INGREDIENTS

 

[diggingdogfarm]

I ...simply do not understand why NFDM/Soy-Protein is added to these sausages.

I don't understand it either, both taste horrible and are expensive, I don't add either one to any of my sausages.
Brings back very bad memories of the beef patty mix made with soy that was around quite a bit several years ago, absolutely horrible stuff tastewise and with the texture of a hockey puck! YUCK!!!!
They're not needed (soy or milk powder) if you practice good technique...get a good natural bind and don't overcook the sausages!!!!


~Martin