high temp smoking ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cal1956, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    i just got to wondering with so many of you fellas smoking ribs and such at such high temps , why do you even bother using a smoker ? why not just grill em ? hell at some temps I have read about you might be just as well off frying them and adding a little bottled smoke to em .

    I mean think about it . using a smoker is a lot of trouble when your just basically baking things at those temps  , just seems to me at those temps the outside of the meat would cook so fast as to not absorb any smoke at all, plus get tough as shoe leather

    just wondering , not my intent to step on anyone's toes here
     
  2. jcbigler

    jcbigler Smoking Fanatic SMF Premier Member

    Grilling at a low temp (also called high temp smoking) at 350-400 degrees is a lot different from grilling at 600-700 degrees.
     
  3. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    i beg to differ , at  350-400 degrees your waaay past smoking  ...your baking !!!
     
  4. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Cal, have you tried higher heat smoking and found the results to be unsatisfactory?
     
  5. bmaddox

    bmaddox Master of the Pit

    Perfect question.

    I personally have tried high temp smoking and love it. The meat takes on the same amount of smoke flavor but has a much better texture. 
     
  6. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    no , I prefer my meat smoked, if I wanted baked or fried meat I have a kitchen for that ......lots less trouble when I want it that way
     
  7. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Seems like a lot of trouble to start a whole thread just to bash something you've never even tried. Its also kind of insulting to the growing number of members here who are getting amazing results using higher heat.
    Maybe try asking and discussing in the future, rather than mocking and belittling. You might find folks a little more receptive.
     
    waterinholebrew likes this.
  8. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    sorry if I stepped on someone toes ,

    however I honestly don't understand how anyone can consider it smoking at these high temps

     smoking meat has always been and always will be ...... low and slow
     
  9. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    If you don't understand, just ask. Nicely. Smoking and low and slow are not necessarily tied together. Nothing wrong with low and slow, but it's not the only way. You can, in fact, get great smoke penetration (even a smoke ring), compete breakdown of connective tissue and a wonderful outer crust at temperatures in excess of 300°. In addition, the time is cut by half or more, and the meat loses less moisture. Imagine a rack of ribs smoked to tender perfection with less than an eighth of an inch of pullback from the bone.
    Ribs done at 300°. No pullback, no leathery exterior and perfectly tender meat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  10. tumbleweed1

    tumbleweed1 Smoking Fanatic

    I'm one of the hot & fast crowd myself, generally.

    I've never had a problem with smoke penetration, dryness or toughness.

    Works for me.

    TW
     
  11. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Pulled pork at 300°
    It was tender, smokey and had a nice crisp exterior.
     
  12. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    well to start with , the "smoke ring " has nothing to do with smoke !!!

    2nd, I know anyone can cook at high temps, the thing about it for me is : how can you call it smoking at those temps

    isn't that why we have ovens ?

    3rd , its simply gotta taste different than smoking
     
  13. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Ok. I'm completely without words as to your thoughts on the smoke ring. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, but I can't. So maybe you can explain that one.
    2nd- I don't understand the disconnect between higher heat and smoking. The meat is going through the same physical transformation, the smoke is coating and penetrating--it's just happening faster. Just because it's always been low and slow doesn't mean the same results can't be achieved via a different route. By your reasoning, since traditionally meat has always been smoked via burning wood, cooking with gas isn't smoking either. You're just baking at a really low temperature in a gas oven. Yet you insist on calling it smoking.
    3rd- Yes I suppose it does taste different. Less moisture is lost and more fat is rendered, resulting in meat that is moist, tender and not quite as fatty.

    Honestly I don't care if you believe me or not, but I do suggest you try it once just to bolster your argument. I've done quite a bit of smoking at 225°, and quite a bit at 300° and up, so I feel like I'm justified in making the statements I've made. It may all come down to a matter of personal taste. You may prefer the lower temps after all. But until you've tried higher temp smoking, I fail to see why you argue so vehemently against it.
     
  14. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

        http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/smoke-ring-formation

    it just fails the common sense test .

    at high temps the outside of the meat caramelizes and stops any smoke penetration , it would seem reasonable then

    that your just smoking for the sake of smoking , nothing wrong with doing that , hell I myself do a finishing smoke not for the meat

    but just because I like to smell the smoke , it doesn't do a dang thing for the meat at that point for the same reasons I just gave

    but smoking in the beginning at low temps does give the smoke a fighting chance to penetrate the meat

    and as far s me not trying it before commenting on it : I can flap my arms like a bird does, but that doesn't mean I have to jump

    off of a cliff to know that i can't fly

    little thing called common sense tells me that !!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  15. sawinredneck

    sawinredneck Meat Mopper

    I'm a low and slow guy myself, but.....
    After two hours the meat isn't absorbing any more flavor, I'm hearing more and mor people winning comps using this method, research Gateway drum smokers if you don't believe me, and sometimes you just gotta get stuff cooked to feed the family!
    But there are things I just don't hurry, I like to cook brisket around 220, that's just the way I like it, but I won't think twice about hurrying up some wings to make my ten year old happy! I always cringe watching the BBQ shows and hearing them talking about cranking up brisket to 325 and up. But just because that's what I like doesn't mean I won't eat something new!
     
  16. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    I totally agree that after 2 hours , your just wasting smoke ...hell I myself don't add anymore wood after the 1st hour  ( except like i said for the finishing smoke for my benefit ) not the meats

    benefit .

    but it just seems to me that folks that hurry with these high temps are missing out on good quality smoked meat,

    there is a reason we go low and slow ...it just tastes better !!!!
     
  17. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Well Cal, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I hope you took this little debate in the nature in which it was intended. I meant no personal attack or disrespect. I think this discussion is a great thing. It sheds a little light on the hot and fast versus low and slow debate. We're not the first, nor will we be the last, to argue over this. By a long shot.
    I do wish you'd try hot and fast just once so you can see those of us on that side of the fence aren't crazy.
    One other benefit I forgot to mention is the fact that it's much easier to maintain a clean fire. Once my pit gets above 285°-300° the smoke clears to thin blue. And, as you so eloquently stated, it won't absorb any after a certain point, so my initial load of chunks will see me through. No point in wasting smoke after the first 4-5 hours. Of course my meat will be either done or nearly done by that point anyway.
     
  18. cal1956

    cal1956 Smoking Fanatic

    well maybe at least now you know that the smoke ring is not caused by smoke so maybe some good came from it

     40 years doing this, tells me I'm doing it right !!!! 
     
  19. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Lol. The smoke ring is caused by the byproducts of wood combustion reacting with the myoglobin in the meat. The byproduct of wood combustion? Smoke.
    In other words? No smoke no smoke ring. Yes there are instances where there is smoke and no smoke ring, and yes there are instances where a smoke ring can be faked without smoke. But to say the smoke ring has nothing to do with smoke is just plain....Well again, we'll have to agree to disagree.
     
  20. mdboatbum

    mdboatbum Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Just out of curiosity, what the hell do you believe causes a smoke ring?
     

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