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I love your vision and execution on this door. The whole idea, from the insulation to the dampers, the whole thing. I aspire to build a pit myself. I have zero welding experience, zero building experience, but 100% confidence that I want to. So, I am learning from the professional builders.
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback. Not a professijal by amy means, but I will admit to getting better a bit over the last couple of years. Luckily, I do this as a hobby so I have plenty of time - time to experiment, time to go slow and try to be methodical, etc. And I like to do different things with each pit, so I've been able to sort of 'spread my wings' (lol) and try different techniques and concepts.
I got my door installed... but it's not yet functional....
See, there's a little problem - I can't exactly... open it.
When I try to open it, it gets stuck. There's a spot around the 5 o'clock point where it gets stuck with the very back (innermost) portion of the door butts up against the inner sleeve of the firebox. So... it's stuck. lol
Actually shouldn't be too much of an issue, though, really. I had similar issues with the one other 'bank vault' type door I built (on my very first smoker) and had to spend some time grinding down the edges of the door and the firebox inner sleeve a little bit to get it to open and close easily.
Being that these doors (the insulated or 'bank vault' style as I think of them) have a thickness to them, and are not just a single plate that opens and closes like many smokers have, they have a 3-dimensional space they occupy. When you mount them and go to weld on hinges, you have to try to be very specific about where you place the hinges in relation to the door's edge and the rest of the firebox, etc. When the door goes to open, it pivots on the hinge point and the door doesn't just move straight in and out like a cork in a bottle. Try putting that cork in from the side or the edge - it's a little more difficult, requires much more precise alignment, I guess.
Anyways, no one ever taught me if there's a trick to doing this, or what the 'proper' clearance is or whatever, so I've just had to wing it on my own with trial and error and try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Some of these professional builders out there would probably laugh at my design or implementation or whatever, but it seems to work 'ok' - just sometimes requires a bit more umm... finagling.
So that's what I've got to do now - the finagling. lol With a grinder. And a 40-grit ceramic flap disc.
Yeah, that's my tool of choice for something like this. Like an 8-lb sledge on a finishing nail.
I got my door installed... but it's not yet functional....
See, there's a little problem - I can't exactly... open it.
When I try to open it, it gets stuck. There's a spot around the 5 o'clock point where it gets stuck with the very back (innermost) portion of the door butts up against the inner sleeve of the firebox. So... it's stuck. lol
Actually shouldn't be too much of an issue, though, really. I had similar issues with the one other 'bank vault' type door I built (on my very first smoker) and had to spend some time grinding down the edges of the door and the firebox inner sleeve a little bit to get it to open and close easily.
Being that these doors (the insulated or 'bank vault' style as I think of them) have a thickness to them, and are not just a single plate that opens and closes like many smokers have, they have a 3-dimensional space they occupy. When you mount them and go to weld on hinges, you have to try to be very specific about where you place the hinges in relation to the door's edge and the rest of the firebox, etc. When the door goes to open, it pivots on the hinge point and the door doesn't just move straight in and out like a cork in a bottle. Try putting that cork in from the side or the edge - it's a little more difficult, requires much more precise alignment, I guess.
Anyways, no one ever taught me if there's a trick to doing this, or what the 'proper' clearance is or whatever, so I've just had to wing it on my own with trial and error and try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Some of these professional builders out there would probably laugh at my design or implementation or whatever, but it seems to work 'ok' - just sometimes requires a bit more umm... finagling.
So that's what I've got to do now - the finagling. lol With a grinder. And a 40-grit ceramic flap disc.
Yeah, that's my tool of choice for something like this. Like an 8-lb sledge on a finishing nail.
When I try to open it, it gets stuck. There's a spot around the 5 o'clock point where it gets stuck with the very back (innermost) portion of the door butts up against the inner sleeve of the firebox .
Any door of thickness will get longer in the hole when first opened , before it pulls away from the " jamb " .
I've done all kinds of doors in residential and commercial buildings , yes even a couple bank vault doors .
A quality door in a structure will have a bevel on the strike side towards the hole . That way when opened it doesn't catch the jamb . Now days they just rip the whole thing smaller leaving all edges square , but a larger visible gap on the pull side of the door . The door stop on the push side hides the gap .
So your contact point is most likely at the innermost edge , but you probably know that already . Might try a tappy tap away from the strike side on the bottom most hinge , and see what it does .
It doesn't take much . If your inner diameter was 1/8" less than the outside it would probably swing . Residential doors are about 3/16 .
Strong work, Danny! The fit and finish are looking good! The slight "hang up" on the door shouldn't be too difficult to address - probably nothing that a few minutes with a grinder won't fix...which is kinda like applying chopsaw
's idea of beveling the inner diameter.
I'm liking your design ideas so far! Definitely outside the box and not just "cookie cutter". This thing's gonna be heavy, but I'll bet it's gonna be nice when you're finished!
Funny you should mention that . Lol .
I saw it when I first saw the picture . Thinking it might hang on the strike side .
Any door of thickness will get longer in the hole when first opened , before it pulls away from the " jamb " .
I've done all kinds of doors in residential and commercial buildings , yes even a couple bank vault doors .
A quality door in a structure will have a bevel on the strike side towards the hole . That way when opened it doesn't catch the jamb . Now days they just rip the whole thing smaller leaving all edges square , but a larger visible gap on the pull side of the door . The door stop on the push side hides the gap .
So your contact point is most likely at the innermost edge , but you probably know that already . Might try a tappy tap away from the strike side on the bottom most hinge , and see what it does .
It doesn't take much . If your inner diameter was 1/8" less than the outside it would probably swing . Residential doors are about 3/16 .
Yup, that's exactly right. I don't know of a good way to prevent this in this particular design, no way to 'bevel' that one portion of the door - I considered early in the planning trying to make my door slightly narrower on the inside portion than on the outer portion, kind of like a cork - remembering having this issue when I did my first door like this almost 2 years ago.
But I got it to work with some shaving. So I did make the inner portion slightly smaller than the lip, but apparently not quite small enough. It's a balance between wanting it to fit well (can't really make it a 'plug' like I'd like, but oh well) and allowing enough clearance to open and close.
Good thing about metalworking - you can remove and add almost at a whim, though it can take some work. But it is just barely hanging up on the lower edge at the almost open point, so it won't take a lot of grinding. Probably only needs a thirty-second or so ground down and it'll be perfect. Of course, then once I get it fitting well, I have to worry a little about once the whole thing heats up how it might change the fit. Hopefully it's built stout enough that it shouldn't cause too much shifting. Fight that battle when I get there. lol
seenred
you're right, this thing is heavy - I had hoped to be able to keep it somewhat lighter by using the 1/8" for the outer casing, but it's still a heavy beast. I really hope once this is done that it isn't too heavy for someone to move around easily... but I've built a couple of 250s on yard carts that were surely heavy beasts and I know this thing, even being fully insulated, shouldn't come close to what those were - and I was able to move them around the shop yard (albeit with difficulty) by myself... so we'll just have to wait and see when it's all done.
This one below was a heavy freaking beast - all 1/4" firebox, partially insulated on bottom corners and that tank itself was all nearly 5/16". Man, this was tough to move solo...
That was a fun project, but it was a 'contract build' I took on and really did it for much less than I should have. I knocked it all out in about 6 weeks from start to finish. I've spent more than that on this firebox alone! lol Of course, I haven't been able to work on it consistently due to weather issues.
I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to do the 'cart' portion of this one, especially the front axle. Previously, I've done this, but I don't think I want to do that this time, as I'm not going to use a whole hub and spindle for the rotating axle.
You could do it with a smaller diameter inside plate and a series of kerf cuts in the ring to make fingers . Bend those in to meet the smaller disc .
Just thinking out loud . I did a lot of radius framing when I was working . Always loved it .
That came out really awesome . You got the skill that's for sure .
Damn man ,,, that's awesome . Find an old " Georgia buggy " and add a drive line so it can be driven into place . Lol .
You could do it with a smaller diameter inside plate and a series of kerf cuts in the ring to make fingers . Bend those in to meet the smaller disc .
Just thinking out loud . I did a lot of radius framing when I was working . Always loved it .
That came out really awesome . You got the skill that's for sure .
Yeah I have the smaller inside diameter plate, and rolled the flat bar to make the 'standoff' for the thickness - didn't think of doing kerf cuts like that to make it taper inward. Lotta work, yeah, but could be done, then welded up.
Collector welded up and my ugly ass welds ground down to beveled corners. A different look for this one, we'll see how it comes out, and if I can manage a similar look on the firebox.
Today I worked on cutting into the tank. Lotta time laying out lines and places with my laser level.
Then used the plasma to cut out my openings:
The collector needed trimming to fit the tank.
Tomorrow I'll be mounting the collector, then starting to work mounting the firebox. I hope to get it all done tomorrow and at least sitting on rear wheels. Maybe by Sunday afternoon, anyways. Time will be a little cut short both days, as The Wife wants me to go to a local theater show Sat nite (small local theater we have both performed with in the past), and then Sunday is off to see Andrea Bocelli at the BOK center.
Looking good Danny! I really like the look you achieved with grinding the outside corners on that collector. I always grind every outside corner too. That's some slow, painstaking, and dirty work!
And I've heard lots of pro welders disparage that practice, but we're not fabricating a nuclear reactor, after all...I like to make those visible seams look good. And my welds aren't always ugly, exactly...but they're rarely consistent, either!
Keep up the good work - looking forward to more updates Brother!
Got the rear axle attached. Trimmed the sides of the collector. About ready to weld the collector on. Then work on mounting the firebox. Sprayed the bottom of the firebox with some pplain black paint so it doesnt rust in the meantime. I ground some of the edges of the firebox to match the bevel om the collector, have to finish those out. Waiting on new lugnuts from Amazon ($16 vs $35 from O'Reilly's), as the lugnuts with my hubs are short, so they disappear into the holes in my wheels when I try to tighten them, so I cant get the wheels fully mounted solidly. Those should be delivered this afternoon.
Once I get the wheels solidly mounted and the firebox standing on them, I can test fit the tank and get a height measurement and then have my plasma table guy cut the front axle mount and weld it onto the tank. Then I can fully mount the firebox, and this baby will be up on 4 wheels for good. After that, it's all downhill... Cutting the door and building grates for the inside, etc. Should be standing on its own four feet maybe by tomorrow evening - I'm hoping!
Annoyed myself today (ok yesterday now), spend 8 or 9 hours out at the shop in 2 sessions and got not as much done as I'd like. And mostly didn't look too great. And set myself back until the weekend, probably, to get this thing up on 4 wheels. Sheesh.
Collector done, crappy welds and all.
Crappy patch done. Needs grinding.
Pivot point for front axle.
Two hours to build this simple pull handle mount (2 of 3 pieces recut AFTER complete prep), due to my poor maths and dumb ideas. <sigh> Then partial weld, cut apart, reprep parts, repair angles and re-weld, grind, etc. It was a not so great day.
Hoped to get my parts for the front axle pivot cut tonite, they had to be redesigned for height, as this smoker is very much different dimensions than the last couple, and then I didn't bring enough material to my parts guy - so I need to get a half-sheet of 1/4" out of the metal stack. Which is currently surrounded by 2" of standing water. So, I can't get the tractor back there to get it, so I am unlikely to be able to get this up on wheels before the weekend - gotta let things dry out enough to get back to the steel pile. <sigh>
Got the firebox up on wheels, got the edges ground to bevels, matching the collector - no good pics of that, sorry.
Spent the rest of the last 2 days running around, getting metal to my CNC guy, getting parts cut, measuring and perfecting size, then drilling a bunch of holes in things (you'll see) and then putting on wheels and tires, etc. It's been a bit of a pain, but now... now I am FINALLY ready to get this thing up on wheels. I have to mount the front axle support on the tank, then it will sit on the axle, and then I can get it up in the air and move the firebox into the shop to do the fit, remove, grind, wash, rinse, repeat drill. That'll be Thurs afternoon and Friday working on that. It'll definitely be on wheels and welded together permanently by Friday evening or Saturday morning.
For real this time. lol
<edit> And I had to pick that firebox up when it fell on it's face and get it back upright for that pic - this MF is HEAVY. Oh mama. I cannot WAIT to get it fully assembled so I can pull this thing around instead of use the tractor.
That's 1.5" 11g square tubing. It'll be plenty to handle this weight.
About to start welding on the front axle support and then fit the cook chamber to the firebox. Going to be a long, hot and painfully exhausting process, but it'll get done.
Yes, in that pic above the square tubing isn't apparent. The top face is blending in with the gravel drive, and the shadowed back face just looks like a single rod. I see now what you were looking at.
Anyways, yesterday was... rough. 100ºF+ head index and I went out around 8AM, got home around 8PM. I did take 2 hours or so out to run to town, shower and change and go to a funeral for one of my patients, then back to the house to change back into my sopping wet jeans and go back out to finish up.
Here is what I ended up with at the end of the day.
It's not as perfect as I would have liked, my fitup wasn't great. I've got it heavily tacked and a couple of 2-3" welds holding it in place, but I'm going to have some gaps to deal with. I had a number of issues I had to overcome (the heat being not the least of them!) and had to trim and grind my opening to fit the firebox in repeatedly. Still, I got it in, got it lined up, got things level and got it attached. Had to go back to a bubble level, as my stupid digital level crapped the bed in the middle of things. I'm trying to get the seller from Amazon to email me a copy of the manual so I can see if I can reset it, but if not, I'll definitely be buying a new one. The digital level is absolutely incomparable in fabrication in my situation - no flat floor, no flat table, nothing. It's like my left arm for things like this.
Anyways, she's now on 4 wheels, and will be for the rest of her life. She pulls in and out of the shop quite easily with that pull handle I made. Front axle swings easily on a 3/4" bolt. I may pull this off again and put in a set of needle roller thrust bearings I bought. I tried it, didn't like that it lifted separated the axle and mount by 1/4" or so, and allowed for 'rocking' left to right, so I removed it.
After sleeping on it, I may put it back in. It had washers top and bottom, but honestly, I think I can leave those out and just put in the thrust bearing, saving some space. There's really no need for the washers, as there is flat metal surface above and below - the bottom face of the axle mount and the top of the axle itself. That'll reduce the potential rocking left to right, I think, and honestly, it doesn't matter much. Not like a smoker gets pulled and run through the hills and fields and on the roads and that sort of thing. Using the thrust bearing will separate it a tiny bit and reduce damage to any paint I put on it from the axle rubbing on the mount. I think. I dunno. It may be worth a try, we'll see. Here's the thrust bearing for those, who don't know what I mean:
So now it's all finish work - cut the door, mount the hinges, build the stack. I've also got some finagling to do for the firebox door. That firebox was so GD'd heavy, trying to move it around by hand was impossible, flipping it over side to side, it fell on it's face and it's back (door side) a couple of times, tried using the tractor as much as possible, but still needed to manipulate it into different orientations to get things done - and consequently, it fell on the door and possibly tweaked it - in spite of 3x ¼" hinges with 6x ¼" hinge mounts. I've got a slight dent in one of the intake pipes which should be easy enough to get back into shape, but I bent the hell out of my intake control rod, so that'll need to be torched and straightened, or I might just cut it and rebuild it. We'll see.
In order to manage to move it around better, I ended up welding 2 pieces of square tubing to the sides of the firebox and made myself the heaviest and most expensive wheelbarrow I've ever seen!
Actually worked quite well, and once I got the firebox mounted to the cook chamber, I just cut those off, and I'll grind out the tacks.
I also mounted a vertical baffle to the front of the firebox, which resides inside the cook chamber. I've used this design numerous times and I really like how it helps keep the temps extremely even across the lower racks. Usually in an offset smoker you have a superheated zone directly in front of the firebox, where superheated gasses and smoke exit into the cook chamber. People either don't cook on this zone, or use a blocking log there, or many manufacturers put a horizontal or downward-sloping baffle here to deflect the heat. This, in my experience, causes even more problems cooking, honestly.
With a horizontal or downward-sloping baffle, the heat is directed down and out and once it clears the baffle, it then flows upward - as heat naturally does, laws of physics being what they are, and all. This prevents the first section of the cook chamber from being blasted by direct heat, but what it does is allow that heat to become a radiant cooking zone, from the hot baffle below. Then, as it moves outward into the cook chamber past the baffle, you get a convective cooking zone out in the middle and heat moves up to the top, to cook top-down through the latter half or third of the cook chamber, before the heat and smoke exits out the exhaust. I don't like this arrangement, I think it makes for complicated cooking zones that are vastly in different, from radiant to convective and different temps and styles and directions of heat and air flow. Ugh.
So I use this vertical baffle design - heat and air coming out of the firebox are immediately directed up to the top of the cook chamber, exactly where they want to go - again, those pesky physical laws and such. From that point, you have true convective top-down cooking through the entire cook chamber.
One thing I noticed when first experimenting with this, with a removable baffle I made, was that the area directly behind the baffle plate (i.e., the part of the cooking grates directly in front of the firebox throat opening) was actually the coolest area of the smoker! By 30-40ºF! So, I've played around with designs and implementation, cut some holes in the baffles to allow some heat through, but not all - and have managed to achieve cooking grate temps of 2-5ºF difference from end to end. This was on a 250-gallon pit. And I'm not talking looking at the temps on door-mounted dial thermometers. I'm talking grate level temps in real cooking conditions. See below:
As you can see, the three temps in the middle (labeled Lower Throat, Lower Middle and Lower Collector) are insanely close in temp. This varies more if you really are blasting the fire, as it changes flow characteristics throughout the cooker, but it demonstrates if you control your fire you can achieve consistent temps across the whole lower grate.
Now, naturally shooting all the heat directly upwards leads to hotter temps on the upper racks - a phenomenon anyone who cooks on offset smokers will tell you is normal. And this is why many builders don't even include upper racks. If you order them, they will include them at extra cost, but will warn you about hotter temps up top. This is common sense and once again... physics. Duh.
Personally, I like to utilize the upper racks for hot & fast cooking while low & slow is going on down below. Chikkin, pork belly, stuff like that. You learn how your cooker runs, and you use those 'zones' to your advantage. Works like a charm, and I LOVE it!
So all that to preface the pics of my baffle that I have taken to using. <whew!> Lotta reading, I know. lol. But I felt explanation was in order, as many will have lots of questions about my design and why I've done it this way.
And yes, it's open at the bottom. Allows a little (theoretical) updraft from cooler air in the bottom of the tank flowing backward from the collector end upwards due to the movement of heat and air up as it exits the firebox, and also allows for scraping the inside of the baffle to allow debris to fall to the bottom of the tank.
So now, after yesterday's marathon in the heat, I am sitting on my ass at home, drinking coffee and debating if I want to go back out there and work some more, or take the day off and recuperate and be lazy. I don't know yet.
If there are any questions I haven't answered in my dissertation above (lol, sorry!), feel free to ask!
realdocBBQ is the real deal.
