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troutman
Smoking Fanatic
I'd still be careful to jump into this without knowing what you're getting. Granted the cost difference is substantial but there's a reason for that. It appears (according to the Pellet Fuels Institute that governs quality control) they often times make heating pellets out of what ever bio mass products are available;
"What is biomass fuel?
Cordwood, wood pellets, wood chips, waste paper, along with dozens of other agricultural products and by-products capable of being used for energy, are all examples of biomass fuel. The most compelling principle of biomass is that it is renewable. The remarkable consistency and burn efficiency of pellet fuel produces a fraction of the particulate emissions of raw biomass. Pellet burners feature the lowest particulate matter emissions of all solid fuels burners. Given the proper Sustainable Forest Initiatives and agricultural management, biomass is virtually limitless, and has proven to be price stable in comparison with fossil fuels.
The majority of North America’s forest is second-growth, and requires periodic treatment in order to address forest health and fire mitigation. A tremendous amount of unusable material remains on the forest floor after such treatment. This material is rejected by high-end wood product manufacturers but is a perfect resource for commercial pellet manufacturers.
By engineering crops and waste such as cornstalks, straw, and residual forest waste, pellets can utilize millions of tons of waste and put them to work.
Many pellet manufacturers take by-products (like wood waste) and refine them into pencil-sized pellets that are uniform in size, shape, moisture, density and energy content. Why not simply burn raw biomass? First, the moisture content of pellets is substantially lower (4% to 8% water–compared to 20% to 60% for raw biomass). Less moisture means higher BTU value and easier handling especially in freezing situations with green raw biomass materials. Second, the density of pellet fuel is substantially higher than raw biomass (40 lbs. per cubic foot verses 10-25 lbs. per cubic foot in raw material form). More fuel can be transported in a given truck space, and more energy can be stored at your site. Third, pellets are more easily and predictably handled. Their uniform shape and size allows for a smaller and simpler feed system that reduces costs. This high density and uniform shape can be stored in standard silos, transported in rail cars and delivered in truck containers."
Most heating furnaces operate via a heat exchanger, so the direct exhaust from these pellets is exhausted into the atmosphere, not on your food. Please be careful that you're not buying into a red herring.
"What is biomass fuel?
Cordwood, wood pellets, wood chips, waste paper, along with dozens of other agricultural products and by-products capable of being used for energy, are all examples of biomass fuel. The most compelling principle of biomass is that it is renewable. The remarkable consistency and burn efficiency of pellet fuel produces a fraction of the particulate emissions of raw biomass. Pellet burners feature the lowest particulate matter emissions of all solid fuels burners. Given the proper Sustainable Forest Initiatives and agricultural management, biomass is virtually limitless, and has proven to be price stable in comparison with fossil fuels.
The majority of North America’s forest is second-growth, and requires periodic treatment in order to address forest health and fire mitigation. A tremendous amount of unusable material remains on the forest floor after such treatment. This material is rejected by high-end wood product manufacturers but is a perfect resource for commercial pellet manufacturers.
By engineering crops and waste such as cornstalks, straw, and residual forest waste, pellets can utilize millions of tons of waste and put them to work.
Many pellet manufacturers take by-products (like wood waste) and refine them into pencil-sized pellets that are uniform in size, shape, moisture, density and energy content. Why not simply burn raw biomass? First, the moisture content of pellets is substantially lower (4% to 8% water–compared to 20% to 60% for raw biomass). Less moisture means higher BTU value and easier handling especially in freezing situations with green raw biomass materials. Second, the density of pellet fuel is substantially higher than raw biomass (40 lbs. per cubic foot verses 10-25 lbs. per cubic foot in raw material form). More fuel can be transported in a given truck space, and more energy can be stored at your site. Third, pellets are more easily and predictably handled. Their uniform shape and size allows for a smaller and simpler feed system that reduces costs. This high density and uniform shape can be stored in standard silos, transported in rail cars and delivered in truck containers."
Most heating furnaces operate via a heat exchanger, so the direct exhaust from these pellets is exhausted into the atmosphere, not on your food. Please be careful that you're not buying into a red herring.
Makes sense but how do we know that BBQ pellets also don’t contain other biomass? We are trusting the manufacturer. There are no additional standards for BBQ pellets.
Note that there are different grades of heating pellets as well.
According to the manufacturer of the heating pellets I bought, they are hardwoods with no other fillers.
I certainly don’t want to use a dangerous product but from what I researched, Indeck is reputable and stand behind their pellets as being up to the premium standard.
Note that there are different grades of heating pellets as well.
According to the manufacturer of the heating pellets I bought, they are hardwoods with no other fillers.
I certainly don’t want to use a dangerous product but from what I researched, Indeck is reputable and stand behind their pellets as being up to the premium standard.
troutman
Smoking Fanatic
Well one thing I would say, if that 40# bag of pellets cost $4 and the $33 bag of Lumberjack Pellets I just bought are essentially the same thing, then someone is getting over on all of us...know what I mean?
Well $33 is way too much. You should be able to find Lumberjack cheaper depending on where you live. I’ve seen them for as low as $16 on Craig’s List from local dealers.
But I do think there is a markup for branding them as BBQ. I wouldn’t think it costs 4x more to do some extra sorting. The raw material would probabaly cost more for certain woods but 4x as much? Only someone at one of the factories would know the true cost. But it sure seems suspect to me.
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It's the shipping!!
One reason that heating pellets are cheap are because they are typically manufactured close to the end user. Try having a bag of hardwood heating pellets delivered to you from WI and see how much that costs. If you live close to the plant you could get a 40lb bag of Lumberjack for less than $10. If you want to lower your cost on LJ, do a group buy. I get them delivered to CA for about $14/40lbs.
troutman
Smoking Fanatic
Yea I remember you talking about that in another thread. I will look into a group buy. Actually there are other brands locally that are cheaper, I just like LJ which don't have a local presence in Houston for some reason.
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There's a group buy happening right now in Houston:
https://bbqpelletsonline.com/index.php/contact-us/current-group-buys
https://bbqpelletsonline.com/index.php/contact-us/current-group-buys
I sent out an email asking for information on this from the Wood Pellet Association of Canada.
Here is their response, and this comes from one of the executives of the association. As per their request I didn't disclose their name.
Damian,
You can find the standards on page 6 of the document at this link. https://www.pellet.org/CANplus/documents/WPACST03.pdf
You can use hardwood or softwood pellets for your grill. I live in BC where our pellets are mostly made from pine, spruce, balsam, and Douglas fir. The ones I use are mostly pine. Canadian wood pellets are 100% pure wood with no additives or binders, so contamination is not a concern.
Marketers of heating pellets charge more because people use smaller quantities, the packaging is fancier, and they promote exotic woods claiming that the flavours are unique. Most people that only grill occasionally are not too concerned about the fuel cost. I leave the flavouring for you to judge. I can’t tell the difference and I have tried them all. So I use heating pellets for grilling, and so do all my pellet industry industry colleagues. In fact, we even use heating pellets when putting on barbecues at our annual conferences where we have international delegates attending from Europe and Asia.
I would prefer if you don’t quote me on this because the marketers of grilling pellets would not be very happy with me telling you this.
Here is their response, and this comes from one of the executives of the association. As per their request I didn't disclose their name.
Damian,
You can find the standards on page 6 of the document at this link. https://www.pellet.org/CANplus/documents/WPACST03.pdf
You can use hardwood or softwood pellets for your grill. I live in BC where our pellets are mostly made from pine, spruce, balsam, and Douglas fir. The ones I use are mostly pine. Canadian wood pellets are 100% pure wood with no additives or binders, so contamination is not a concern.
Marketers of heating pellets charge more because people use smaller quantities, the packaging is fancier, and they promote exotic woods claiming that the flavours are unique. Most people that only grill occasionally are not too concerned about the fuel cost. I leave the flavouring for you to judge. I can’t tell the difference and I have tried them all. So I use heating pellets for grilling, and so do all my pellet industry industry colleagues. In fact, we even use heating pellets when putting on barbecues at our annual conferences where we have international delegates attending from Europe and Asia.
I would prefer if you don’t quote me on this because the marketers of grilling pellets would not be very happy with me telling you this.
That strikes me as strange too.
If we wouldn't use actual wood from Pine, Balsam, Spruce, or Douglas Fir, why would we use Pellets made from those Species?
Bear
Not for smoking anyway. I’ve certainly cooked some hotdogs and marshmallows over a firepit with pine and other random wood. Maybe over a high heat grill it’s not as noticeable.
troutman
Smoking Fanatic
Thanks bregent !!! At $14.36 per 40# bag that's less than half what I've been paying.
IMO... My thoughts... In a pellet smoker, there is flame... the flame may burn up some of the carcinogens associated with burning softwoods.. It's your choice...
In a "smoke generator", there is no such luxury of an "afterburner" to clean up the smoke of known carcinogens..
That's the reason I choose "so called" food grade pellets.. Their higher price, is more than likely, the price to separate wood sawdust.. Todd chooses to do a "complete" separation to provide us with unique wood flavors.. That's probably the most expensive process of all processors... Thank you Todd..
I liken it to buying meat at the market.. The meat guy has select, choice and prime meats in the back room.. He mixes them in a random fashion.. Now you have no idea what you are getting... Some cost him $1.50/lb.. some $2.50/# and some $4.00/#... He sells it to me for $3.50/#.... NOT.... I'm willing to pay for the real stuff....
So, where's this going... Hang on.... we're almost there....
Todd's pellets sell from $1.50/# to $3.00/#... plus shipping if you don't buy ~$50 worth... I try to purchase enough to get free shipping.. I'm cheap.... and I know what I'm purchasing... Means a lot to me...
I generally smoke a batch of meat for 3-6 hours and I generally have 10-20#'s of meat in the smoker when I do...
3-6 hours of smoke consumes 5-10 oz. of pellets... 1/3 to 2/3 of a #....
Given the price of $1.50 to $3.00 per # for pellets, my costs are $0.50 to $2.00 for that smoke... depending on the pellets and how I purchase them... I'm usually in the $0.50-$1.00 range.. Free shipping is where the break comes..
If I smoke 20#'s of meat and I'm using the $2.00 load of pellets, my costs just increased by $0.10 a pound...
10 cents a pound.. Now, I'm cheaper than most of you folks, but that's a small price to pay for a quality product that comes from a long time member....
In a "smoke generator", there is no such luxury of an "afterburner" to clean up the smoke of known carcinogens..
That's the reason I choose "so called" food grade pellets.. Their higher price, is more than likely, the price to separate wood sawdust.. Todd chooses to do a "complete" separation to provide us with unique wood flavors.. That's probably the most expensive process of all processors... Thank you Todd..
I liken it to buying meat at the market.. The meat guy has select, choice and prime meats in the back room.. He mixes them in a random fashion.. Now you have no idea what you are getting... Some cost him $1.50/lb.. some $2.50/# and some $4.00/#... He sells it to me for $3.50/#.... NOT.... I'm willing to pay for the real stuff....
So, where's this going... Hang on.... we're almost there....
Todd's pellets sell from $1.50/# to $3.00/#... plus shipping if you don't buy ~$50 worth... I try to purchase enough to get free shipping.. I'm cheap.... and I know what I'm purchasing... Means a lot to me...
I generally smoke a batch of meat for 3-6 hours and I generally have 10-20#'s of meat in the smoker when I do...
3-6 hours of smoke consumes 5-10 oz. of pellets... 1/3 to 2/3 of a #....
Given the price of $1.50 to $3.00 per # for pellets, my costs are $0.50 to $2.00 for that smoke... depending on the pellets and how I purchase them... I'm usually in the $0.50-$1.00 range.. Free shipping is where the break comes..
If I smoke 20#'s of meat and I'm using the $2.00 load of pellets, my costs just increased by $0.10 a pound...
10 cents a pound.. Now, I'm cheaper than most of you folks, but that's a small price to pay for a quality product that comes from a long time member....
troutman
Smoking Fanatic
I think the nail has been hit on its proverbial head. Cost of shipping, a more refined product avoiding soft woods and additives, all add up to a marked increase in price. Given avenues for buying power certainly narrows the margin and makes for an economical solution, that's what I was trying to get at in the first place.
If interested, here is Lumberjack's reply to my inquiry to them about this subject;
Good morning,
In response to your question regarding heating pellets versus BBQ pellets, there are several factors that contribute to the difference in our BBQ pellets versus our other products.
First of all, most of our heating products contain softwoods (pine, etc) and as you mentioned, softwoods are not conducive to cooking or smoking food products because of the unappealing flavor the pine wood produces.
Secondly, the size of our BBQ pellets is a smaller diameter than our heating pellets. Our heating pellets are a ¼” diameter pellet and our BBQ pellets are a 5.5mm diameter. The smaller diameter BBQ pellet is advantageous as it goes through a pellet grill auger more easily.
Thirdly, we do not offer our heating pellets in the flavors and varieties that we have available for our BBQ pellets. The cost difference has much to do with cost of the woods that we purchase to make the BBQ pellets versus the heating pellets. The only possible cross-over between heating pellets and BBQ pellets would be the “First Choice” heating pellet and the 100% oak BBQ pellet. However, we do not recommend nor package the “First Choice” pellet as a BBQ grilling or smoking pellet as the recipe for our “First Choice” heating pellets may contain many different varieties of hardwood, including ash, maple, and other mixed hardwoods. Our 100% oak BBQ pellet contains just that…100% oak wood.
None of our pellets contain leaves or debris or anything of that nature. All of our pellets are made from 100% wood and are either bought in chip form or chipped by us from logs that we purchase.
Hopefully this helps to answer your questions.
Let me know if you have any further questions or would like to order our Lumberjack BBQ pellets.
Thanks.
Audrey
Great Lakes Renewable Energy, Inc.
If interested, here is Lumberjack's reply to my inquiry to them about this subject;
Good morning,
In response to your question regarding heating pellets versus BBQ pellets, there are several factors that contribute to the difference in our BBQ pellets versus our other products.
First of all, most of our heating products contain softwoods (pine, etc) and as you mentioned, softwoods are not conducive to cooking or smoking food products because of the unappealing flavor the pine wood produces.
Secondly, the size of our BBQ pellets is a smaller diameter than our heating pellets. Our heating pellets are a ¼” diameter pellet and our BBQ pellets are a 5.5mm diameter. The smaller diameter BBQ pellet is advantageous as it goes through a pellet grill auger more easily.
Thirdly, we do not offer our heating pellets in the flavors and varieties that we have available for our BBQ pellets. The cost difference has much to do with cost of the woods that we purchase to make the BBQ pellets versus the heating pellets. The only possible cross-over between heating pellets and BBQ pellets would be the “First Choice” heating pellet and the 100% oak BBQ pellet. However, we do not recommend nor package the “First Choice” pellet as a BBQ grilling or smoking pellet as the recipe for our “First Choice” heating pellets may contain many different varieties of hardwood, including ash, maple, and other mixed hardwoods. Our 100% oak BBQ pellet contains just that…100% oak wood.
None of our pellets contain leaves or debris or anything of that nature. All of our pellets are made from 100% wood and are either bought in chip form or chipped by us from logs that we purchase.
Hopefully this helps to answer your questions.
Let me know if you have any further questions or would like to order our Lumberjack BBQ pellets.
Thanks.
Audrey
Great Lakes Renewable Energy, Inc.
Thanks for posting the response from Lumberjack. I would definitely not use softwoods but based on what they mentioned about the First Choice heating pellets, I’m fine with using the heating pellets I got. Yes they are a mixture of hardwoods but so are the typical bags of competition blends.
I plan on using the Premium Hardwood heating pellets for my high heat grilling. I’ll continue to use Lumberjack hickory or pecan for my low and slow cooks.
I plan on using the Premium Hardwood heating pellets for my high heat grilling. I’ll continue to use Lumberjack hickory or pecan for my low and slow cooks.
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Not just a flame but a very HOT flame with a fan blowing right into it - so it's a very different fire than if you were burning softwood in a stick burner. Still, I would not be comfortable with softwood pellets.
I don't know if you're cheaper than me, but most of us in this thread are running pellet grills and your cost analysis kind of goes out the window - we're not using ounces per cook. On a long cook we may use 10-15 pounds so we're always looking for ways to cut costs. I'm not going to spend $2-3 a lb for pellets, but I don't need the cheapest either. I'm happy paying $0.37/lb for single species hardwood.
jtrainor56
Meat Mopper
I can't believe this thread is still going.Talk about beating a dead horse...speaking of which I'm having an exquisite dinner party tonight Kal Kan Mystery Meal flavor seared over the finest local Mystery pellets I could find.Didn't wan't to pay shipping as I used all my money on the Kal Kan shipping.Come one,come all! :)
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