Ham Curing ingredient's amounts ?!

[warston]

Hello

i have been through those 1000 posts of articles about each component of the additives for curing the ham, and i have almost everything needed to start except 2 things i would like to have an answer :

1- how many gram sodium tripolyphosphate we have to add to a 1 litter of brine with 10% pump ?

2- how many gram ascorbic acid we have to add to a 1 litter of brine 10% pump ( the same brine including the above tripolyphosphate  )

3- they said to avoid add the Vitamin C ( ascorbic acid) to a nitrate brine because that will cause a fume .. so how to add then ?

plz help

thx

 

[scarbelly]

I see this is your  first post - would you please update your profile with your location then swing by Roll Call and introduce yourself.

One of the curing guys will be along soon with your answers  

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Hello
i have been through those 1000 posts of articles about each component of the additives for curing the ham, and i have almost everything needed to start except 2 things i would like to have an answer :


1- how many gram sodium tripolyphosphate we have to add to a 1 litter of brine with 10% pump ?





2- how many gram ascorbic acid we have to add to a 1 litter of brine 10% pump ( the same brine including the above [SIZE=10pt]tripolyphosphate[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] )[/SIZE]





3- they said to avoid add the Vitamin C ( ascorbic acid) to a nitrate brine because that will cause a fume .. so how to add then ?





plz help



thx

Personally, I'd avoid using phosphate and excelerator.
But, anyway, can't answer the questions without knowing what type of ham and how you intend to cure it or age it (if that applies).
There are some situations where a cure excelerator should never be used.

About the ascorbic acid and nitrate, you should never combine ascorbic acid and nitrate anyway because they'll work against each other....ascorbic acid asks as a cure excelerator and nitrate is used in long term curing for a prolonged release of nitrite.



~Martin

 

[warston]

I see this is your  first post - would you please update your profile with your location then swing by Roll Call and introduce yourself.

One of the curing guys will be along soon with your answers  

Thanks Scarbelly appreciate it ! i did post there and update my profile :)

 

[warston]

Personally, I'd avoid using phosphate and excelerator.
But, anyway, can't answer the questions without knowing what type of ham and how you intend to cure it or age it (if that applies).
There are some situations where a cure excelerator should never be used.
About the ascorbic acid and nitrate, you should never combine ascorbic acid and nitrate anyway because they'll work against each other....ascorbic acid asks as a cure excelerator and nitrate is used in long term curing for a prolonged release of nitrite.
~Martin

Hey Diggy

thanks for posting on this thread really !

if your read over many forums about the risk of the phosphate, it's exactly the same of Nitrate and Nitrite, dangerous if it's excess .. STILL it's very acceptable in small amount as it helps to keep the color of the meat and the most important is to  keep the meat juicy specially under smoking procedure .. 

i just read that first it need to be dissolved in the water brine and THEN adding suger and spices and stuff ,and last to add the nitrate .. so i guess i found answer for Ques#3 . but still i didn't find for the first two ..

so appreciate if any buddy has any answer for that ..

Thanks

 

[fpnmf]

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/89979/from-hog-leg-to-easter-ham

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Hey Diggy
thanks for posting on this thread really !
if your read over many forums about the risk of the phosphate, it's exactly the same of Nitrate and Nitrite, dangerous if it's excess .. STILL it's very acceptable in small amount as it helps to keep the color of the meat and the most important is to  keep the meat juicy specially under smoking procedure .. 

i just read that first it need to be dissolved in the water brine and THEN adding suger and spices and stuff ,and last to add the nitrate .. so i guess i found answer for Ques#3 . but still i didn't find for the first two ..
so appreciate if any buddy has any answer for that ..
Thanks

I tried!

Again, can't answer your questions without more information,

In addition to the questions above, what cure, specifically, will you be using?

About the phosphate, safe or not safe, there's no flavor in water!

Phosphate isn't needed if you practice good technique!


~Martin

 

[warston]

sorry  i 4got to mention that i'm using Pork Loin due to the reason that i don't have good pump injector to inject the meat next to bone parts ..

phosphat is not to flavour but as i said to keep the colour instead of vanishing with the time , and MORE important to keep the juice of the meat ..

and actually it's this phosphate: 

Sodium Tripolyphosphat, which is very common in cured meat, actually it's a small secret why some factories produce juicy meet than others who their meat get dry in the refrigeratorof the deli

i came to know that the percentage is  0.5%w,w p2o5 but didnt understand how i calculate that ~!

 

[DanMcG]

I would also skip the Ascorbic acid, it's not needed in home curing.
I do use phosphates sometimes with good results, I sent you a pm with info and how to calculate the amount needed. if you need more info let me know.

And a side note.
I see your in Sri Lanka. You might want to check the % nitrite /nitrate in your cure. it could be much different then what we use in the states, and if you're using a recipe you found here you could end up under or over curing your loin. neither one would be a good thing.

 

[shoneyboy]

sorry  i 4got to mention that i'm using Pork Loin due to the reason that i don't have good pump injector to inject the meat next to bone parts ..

phosphat is not to flavour but as i said to keep the colour instead of vanishing with the time , and MORE important to keep the juice of the meat ..

and actually it's this phosphate: 

Sodium Tripolyphosphat, which is very common in cured meat, actually it's a small secret why some factories produce juicy meet than others who their meat get dry in the refrigeratorof the deli

i came to know that the percentage is  0.5%w,w p2o5 but didnt understand how i calculate that ~!

I've used Pops wet cure for curing my CB and it has always come out great......I'm using pork loin to make Canadian Bacon.....

 

[warston]

I would also skip the Ascorbic acid, it's not needed in home curing.
I do use phosphates sometimes with good results, I sent you a pm with info and how to calculate the amount needed. if you need more info let me know.
And a side note.
I see your in Sri Lanka. You might want to check the % nitrite /nitrate in your cure. it could be much different then what we use in the states, and if you're using a recipe you found here you could end up under or over curing your loin. neither one would be a good thing.

is not that the USAD forced using the ascorbite to avoid the react of the nitrate with the meat that would result in carcinogen elements ?

and thanks for mentioning the connection of the country , but what did u meant by it would be over curing ? is it for the cause of i'm in hot weather country so i need to lessen the measures or something else ?

thanks dan

 

[daveomak]

Personally, I'd avoid using phosphate and excelerator.
But, anyway, can't answer the questions without knowing what type of ham and how you intend to cure it or age it (if that applies).
There are some situations where a cure excelerator should never be used.

About the ascorbic acid and nitrate, you should never  combine ascorbic acid and nitrate anyway because they'll work against each other....ascorbic acid asks as a cure excelerator and nitrate is used in long term curing for a prolonged release of nitrite.

In addition to the questions above, what cure, specifically, will you be using?

About the phosphate, safe or not safe, there's no flavor in water!

Phosphate isn't needed if you practice good technique

I would also skip the Ascorbic acid, it's not needed in home curing.

I do use phosphates sometimes with good results, I sent you a pm with info and how to calculate the amount needed. if you need more info let me know.

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I see your in Sri Lanka. You might want to check the % nitrite /nitrate in your cure. it could be much different then what we use in the states, and if you're using a recipe you found here you could end up under or over curing your loin. neither one would be a good thing.[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Warston, morning and welcome to the forum......  [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]You have been given some very good information by our members....  [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The amount of nitrate and nitrite in curing salts varies from country to country.... Using recipes from this forum may not be safe if you use cures from other countries.... [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Our methods/recipes are based on the USDA, FDA and FSIS... all are agencies of the United States Government... They are accepted as safe with many years of testing incorporated in their recipes.... [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]What percent nitrate and/or nitrite is in the cure you are planning on using....   That question needs to be answered first.... [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Is there a Trade name on the curing product you will be using..... [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Do you have refrigeration to store the product while it cures.... [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]and what temperature will you cure at........ [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]What process will you use to finish the product...[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Temperature[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Time[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Humidity[/color]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Smoke or not....[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]You are not giving us adequate information to answer your questions thoroughly.... [/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]It seems you are new to the curing process.....  we are here to help you make a safe product to consume...[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Dave[/font]

 

[warston]

hey Dave thanks for replying !

this is the case :

 i'm living in SriLanka and here i can't find Cure#1 or #2

i wanted to cure 1KG of  Pork Loin and i got some recipes but i'm not sure about the amounts , so please i would like u to help me out for this if it's possible..

so for 1 kilo of meat the brine will be 40% , so we are speaking about 400 milliliter and to have SAL 60 then it will need like 150 grams of josher salt

but now here we go .. i got PURE WHITE nitrate ( no nitrite becoz not drying cure)

my questions are:

1- how many grams i need to add to this brine ?

2- i got sodium tripolypshophate for keeping the meat juicu and color, how many grams ?

3-how many gram ascorbite acie ( vitamin c) ?

4-how many grams suger ?

and for how many days i have to submerge the meat in the refrigerator ?

no smoking becoz i don't have smoke house

i guess it will take like 4 days curing as the recipe said

is that enough ?

 

[linguica]

I'm not sure if this helps or not. I assume the ingredients are by weight.

Prague powder #1 or pink salt contains 93.75% table salt and 6.25% sodium nitrite

 

[diggingdogfarm]

hey Dave thanks for replying !

this is the case :

 
 i'm living in SriLanka and here i can't find Cure#1 or #2
 
i wanted to cure 1KG of  Pork Loin and i got some recipes but i'm not sure about the amounts , so please i would like u to help me out for this if it's possible..
 
so for 1 kilo of meat the brine will be 40% , so we are speaking about 400 milliliter and to have SAL 60 then it will need like 150 grams of josher salt
 
but now here we go .. i got PURE WHITE nitrate ( no nitrite becoz not drying cure)
 
my questions are:
 
1- how many grams i need to add to this brine ?
2- i got sodium tripolypshophate for keeping the meat juicu and color, how many grams ?
3-how many gram ascorbite acie ( vitamin c) ?
4-how many grams suger ?
 
and for how many days i have to submerge the meat in the refrigerator ?
 
 
no smoking becoz i don't have smoke house
 
i guess it will take like 4 days curing as the recipe said
 
is that enough ?

What you're attempting to do isn't considered safe now-a-days (in Amercia, anyways), for several reasons.
I can't recommend that you proceed.
Can you order cure with nitrite from Australia?


~Martin

 

[warston]

ya this is the point .. because im unable to find the pink salt and i got Pure nitrate ..

 

[warston]

nitrite ? i heard that nitrite is dangerous than nitrate ! as the USAD put a calculation of:

Nitrate x % pump lvl % 1000000 / brine = 200 ppm as a standard , but i'm much confused to calculate it becuase it's with pounds and Oz ( we use grams and litters)

although i transferred to my units , still everytime i get different answer :S .. that's why i need someone who understand exactly the Nitrate and can help me out with the ascorbite and other stuff in grams according to the case mentioned above ..

i got all the powders but i'm afraid to start any thing and i WON'T start til i get some good feed back ...

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Yes, technically, ounce for ounce, pure nitrite is more dangerous than pure nitrate, that's why it's available in a mixture with salt for curing purposes, which makes it easy to measure, use and safer for the type of curing you're attempting to do. Truth is, nitrate must be converted to nitrite before it can work to cure, so you'll be dealing with nitrite regardless.

Anyway, you can find all the information you need in the following links, but because I don't recommend using nitrate in the case you're presenting, you're on your own as far as the calculations go.

www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing/making-brine

~Martin

 

[shoneyboy]

I've been reading this thread and I have a question.....but I feel I know the answer and it's because it is Nitrate and not Nitrite, but I'm going to ask anyway...Why couldn't Warston just mix his pure white nitrate with salt and make "Pink Salt" ? Is it because it's nitrate and not nitrite ? 

 

[diggingdogfarm]

You definitely can't make cure #1 or even cure #2 with just nitrate.



~Martin