Grilla Grill Silverbac Alpha Vs. Traeger Ironwood 650

[SlowmotionQue]

I think you'll be very impressed with the RT590.

 

[ttkt57]

This is way off the original topic, but maybe it's worth inserting.

The LG900 has a better burn pot design than do most of the imports, but like the Yoder with the same design, there is no heat deflector between the flame and the grease pan which thus has to do double duty. This causes a radiant heat hot spot above the flame. The Outlaw pellet smokers use a pellet delivery/fire pot system very similar to that of the Yoders and LGs, but they do two things differently, resulting in more even heat across the cook surface. First, they add a heat deflector between the flame and the grease pan. Second, they vent the unit with a long slit at the back rather that using a smoke stack at the far end.

I've been looking around and I can't find any other pellet cooker that combines the Yoder/LG burn pot configuration with a separate heat deflector and a long slit rather than a stack on the end.

I'm going to drive over to the Outlaw shop Friday, meet the owner/designer, kick the tires a bit, and report back when I get the chance.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

Slowmo,

That grub looks tasty! And your kit and deck look great!

I'm not convinced, though, by your "heat rises" dismissal of the Silverbac's double wall construction below the grates. I'm not a specialist in thermodynamics, but I know enough to remember that convected heat (which goes up and out the smoke stack at the rate set by the fan drawing in cooler air from outside the grill) and radiant heat (which travels in all directions from its source and is either absorbed or reflected) behave differently enough to explain a legitimate engineering decision to double-wall a grill near its primary source of radiant heat.

Again, I'm no expert in thermodynamics, but as I see it all pellet grills lose about the same amount of convected heat (the "heat rises" kind) based on the speed of the fan and regardless of insulation, steel thickness, etc., but lose radiant heat to varying degrees depending on insulation, material reflectivity and thickness, etc.

Hence, while little can be done about the "heat rises" kind of heat in any unit that constantly adds cool air from outside and allows smoke to escape, quite a bit can be done about radiant heat.

Anyway, I respectfully don't think the Silverbac's engineering (or marketing) is as unsound as you suggest.

Of course it's just opinions unless someone with both a Stampede and a Silverbac load them both with the same amount of pellets, set them at the same temp in the same environment and see which one runs out of pellets first.

(No one will do it though because real science would put the squash on at least half of social media, and what would be the fun in that? Ha!)

I would agree that were one to run both grills side by side in the same weather, at the same temps and over a period of time for the average cook, or in a test actually cooking similar items, that this would be the good way to tell the difference between which one held heat best while consuming a given amount of fuel.

However, pellets are cheap. We all know what a 20lb bag of our favorite pellets costs. We know what 10lbs of these same pellets works out to price wise. We know what 5lbs works out to. What 2.5lbs works out to in cost and so on.

And so unless a significant difference in fuel consumption between the two were observed in cold weather, or even warm weather, one would have to consider whether that difference, and that's assuming that there was even a difference, would be worth the warranty differences, and other differences which may be important to them, between the two.

Even taking this into account, there are of course variables. People cook differently. Some of us may be quicker to put food on our grills than others.

Some may watch the temps and put food on immediately after temp is reached. Others may put food on a bit before the grill reaches the target temperature. While still others might put food on several minutes after temperature is reached.

All of the above techniques could influence overall fuel consumption over a cook

Some like to remove briskets and pork butts at an internal temp of 200°, others may prefer a bit higher. Some slightly lower.

But again, all of the methods could influence pellets used over a cook and may not give a fair comparison of fuel consumption between one owner with one grill, and another owner using another grill.

So unless we're measuring down to the last pellet, and taking a few other things into account, well how crazy would one want to get in comparing fuel consumption between the two?

It brings us right back to the question; "Is that extra piece of metal in the bottom of the Grilla going to make a significant difference?"

Bingo. The temperature delta between the wall of the grill and the outside air is going to drive heat transfer. The lower half of the Grilla runs cooler than any other pellet grill I've had the opportunity to use (save my Father in-laws Timberline, which is also insulated in that area), which means it is losing less heat through skin losses. They're all still losing heat to skin loss from the top, and the argument was "why insulate anything if you're not going to insulate the top, because HEAT RISES." It's partially true, but it neglects the fact that some-insulation still prevents more heat loss than none-insulation. An additional benefit for those of us with littles running around the yard, the bottom of the barrel stays cool enough to not cause a severe burn particularly when running at moderate temps.

The fact is that both of these grills are great, and a better value for the money than the Traeger offerings. Some people will be turned off by bullhorns and the RecTec culture. Others will be turned off by the more swing = more smoke argument (the Alpha controller allows you to choose what you want). When it came time to spend my money I couldn't stand the bull aesthetic and the way people get attacked for negative experiences with RecTec drove me elsewhere. Grilla offered a number of features I liked and at a lower price point, so that's what I got.

Interesting points. Particularly the ones in bold.

I don't think that one can go terribly wrong with either purchase.

Indeed, the horns may be a turnoff for some, and others won't mind them.

On the other side of the coin, if people want to believe that widely swinging temperatures somehow account for better smoke flavor, well then that's their prerogative.

And that is whether or not anyone can explain the science behind why such a theory makes sense.

As far as a perception of "people being attacked for negative experiences", well, personally, I don't let that enter into my purchasing decision as I would likely miss out on a lot of good products were I to do so.

What happens if people start getting attacked for mentioning negative experiences for a product that I already have and am satisfied with?

Do I take it back?

As to the comment on "the Rec Tec Culture". I'm not entirely sure that I know what that is, or what is meant by that but ......If you notice from the last picture I posted, every product in the pic, has what could be considered a cult following or a "culture" if you will.

The Otto Wilde, the 22in WSM, (my 18in WSM is not shown) the Weber Kettle, the Camp Chef griddle, the Camp Chef stove, the Kamado Joe and yes the Rec Tec.

All of them have huge followings, all enjoy good, if not great, reputations amongst owners, and with good reason.

When it came time to spend my money on a pellet grill, I looked at how I would be using it, it's construction, ease of use and convenience, hopper capacity, customer service and reliability......and yes, product reputation.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

This is way off the original topic, but maybe it's worth inserting.

The LG900 has a better burn pot design than do most of the imports, but like the Yoder with the same design, there is no heat deflector between the flame and the grease pan which thus has to do double duty. This causes a radiant heat hot spot above the flame. The Outlaw pellet smokers use a pellet delivery/fire pot system very similar to that of the Yoders and LGs, but they do two things differently, resulting in more even heat across the cook surface. First, they add a heat deflector between the flame and the grease pan. Second, they vent the unit with a long slit at the back rather that using a smoke stack at the far end.

I've been looking around and I can't find any other pellet cooker that combines the Yoder/LG burn pot configuration with a separate heat deflector and a long slit rather than a stack on the end.

I'm going to drive over to the Outlaw shop Friday, meet the owner/designer, kick the tires a bit, and report back when I get the chance.

I don't recall if this was discussed early on in the thread, but are we comparing pellet grills in similar price ranges?

Doesn't the LG900 have around a $1900.00 price tag?

If so, then that's headed into MAK or Cookshack price range.

 

[ttkt57]

Doesn't the LG900 have around a $1900.00 price tag?

The LG900 sells for $700 at Costco and is shipped from Amazon for $900. In that price range it appears to have the best system for smoke generation--better than Rec Tec, Grilla Grills, Traeger--but probably suffers from a hot spot over an inadequately shielded burn pot.

Oh, and I may have been unclear earlier about how it compares to the more expensive Outlaw. They share, or essentially share, the superior pellet burn system and vent system but are different in that the Outlaw has an additional layer of steel deflecting heat from the flames for more even radiant heat.

Edit: Does anybody know why an automatic link to Rec Tec gets inserted when I post to this forum but not one to Grilla Grills, Traeger, Outlaw, etc? Is this forum a front for Rec Tec?

 

[SlowmotionQue]

The LG900 sells for $700 at Costco and is shipped from Amazon for $900. In that price range it appears to have the best system for smoke generation--better than Rec Tec, Grilla Grills, Traeger--but probably suffers from a hot spot over an inadequately shielded burn pot.

Oh, and I may have been unclear earlier about how it compares to the more expensive Outlaw. They share, or essentially share, the superior pellet burn system and vent system but are different in that the Outlaw has an additional layer of steel deflecting heat from the flames for more even radiant heat.

Edit: Does anybody know why an automatic link to Rec Tec gets inserted when I post to this forum but not one to Grilla Grills, Traeger, Outlaw, etc? Is this forum a front for Rec Tec?

Thanks. I thought I saw it at $1899.

Oh, and Amazon comes up as a link in your post above as well.

WSM and Camp Chef came up as links in one of my prior posts.

Also look at posts #29 and #32. Links to other grills mentioned in those posts.

So no, it’s not just Rec Tec, and no, this forum is not a front for them.

 

[ttkt57]

Oh, and Amazon comes up as a link in your post above as well.

WSM and Camp Chef came up as links in one of my prior posts.

Also look at posts #29 and #32. Links to other grills mentioned in those posts.

So no, it’s not just Rec Tec, and no, this forum is not a front for them.

I see that now. Thanks.

I was beginning to wonder, though, given the almost cult-like non-objectivity I see from time to time in support of that brand over others.

That sort of thing, and the fact that the main dish served up in online debates is red herring, reminds why I usually don't spend any time on BBQ forums--and convinces me again to just not do it.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

I see that now. Thanks.

I was beginning to wonder, though, given the almost cult-like non-objectivity I see from time to time in support of that brand over others.

That sort of thing, and the fact that the main dish served up in online debates is red herring, reminds why I usually don't spend any time on BBQ forums--and convinces me again to just not do it.

I don’t know why owners of one particular pellet grill tend to gravitate to a particular forum.

I tend strongly towards a belief that customer satisfaction has a lot to do with it.

One of the other well known barbecue fora seems to have a lot of satisfied MAK owners

You’ll see something of the same with BGE owners, Lang owners and Shirley owners. Stick burners and Kamados. WSMs also have a very strong following.

Obviously not all pellet grill manufacturers have reached the level of enthusiasm amongst their customer base that some of the others have.

That’s not to say they won’t get there; however.

 

[Inscrutable]

Whether you do or do not sense fanboyism, exaggeration, bias (which we all have anyway), etc ... you CAN mine for factual information that can help, and realistically you get more of that from actual owners or former owners. And ALL owners are likely biased to what they own, or they wouldn’t own it in the first place. A lot better than the bogus or compensated/promotional reviews you get on sites like Amazon.

 

[SarahS]

So many votes for Silverbac and just two for Traeger? (mine included)
I've come across this Traeger review and I would go for it... Or is it just a commercial trap?

 

[JWFokker]

So many votes for Silverbac and just two for Traeger? (mine included)
I've come across this Traeger review and I would go for it... Or is it just a commercial trap?

That site is just a click through referral revenue generator, not a real review site. They all follow the same format. Faked reviews that summarize Amazon reviews and a bunch of links to resellers.

That said, I'm one of the people who thinks that Traeger is a premium priced brand that is in reality just average. Lots of competition does the same or better for less money.

 

[Rojack]

Much is made of statements by Grilla about features of their grill but you have one of the Recteq guys who is an ex car salesman talking about stuff that don't matter. Running the burn pot over with a truck for example. You could probably do the same with a Grilla burn pot or some of the other companies. The fact that you can do that don't matter. He also says you need a PID controller. No, you don't. Is the fact that the temps will swing a big deal? No, it is not. The whole Recteq presentation by those two can be awkward to be polite about it yet Grilla is singled out about the insulation. Just an example of someone seeing what they want to and not seeing what they don't want to.

 

[SarahS]

That site is just a click through referral revenue generator, not a real review site. They all follow the same format. Faked reviews that summarize Amazon reviews and a bunch of links to resellers.

That said, I'm one of the people who thinks that Traeger is a premium priced brand that is in reality just average. Lots of competition does the same or better for less money.

oh, that's good to know, cause I saw plenty of sites like this one.
Thanks!

 

[SlowmotionQue]

Much is made of statements by Grilla about features of their grill but you have one of the Recteq guys who is an ex car salesman talking about stuff that don't matter. Running the burn pot over with a truck for example. You could probably do the same with a Grilla burn pot or some of the other companies. The fact that you can do that don't matter. He also says you need a PID controller. No, you don't. Is the fact that the temps will swing a big deal? No, it is not. The whole Recteq presentation by those two can be awkward to be polite about it yet Grilla is singled out about the insulation. Just an example of someone seeing what they want to and not seeing what they don't want to.

Again, a lot of this is going to come down to which features the company touts and which ones make sense to you and are important to you.

If you think that a strong, heavy gauge firepot is going to be important to you, well then it may be something which sways your purchasing decision.

Conversely, if you think that adding another thin layer of metal to the bottom of your pellet grill will conserve heat, but without insulation on the sides, lid, and in areas of the grill where food is being cooked, then again, that may sway your purchasing decision.

As for no PID controller, again that would fall to personal preference. Just me, but I’d just as soon run my WSM with BBQ Guru control as run a pellet smoker with no PID control. I can get just as “tight” temp control on it as what I’m seeing obtained from non PID controlled pellet grills. And I’d get more smoke flavor on it than I can from pellets.

The tighter temp control of the PID is a strong selling point for many.