First Smoked Meatloaf....

[Xendau]

Well, here are some pics of my first smoked meatloaf. I ran into some "learning moments", but it wasnt too bad for a first go.

Learned - my favorite meatloaf recipe is NOT very smoker friendly. It calls for the pan to be lined with sauce, and meatloaf into pan and sauced again, then cooked.

Well, the pan keeps tons of juices from exiting and the meatloaf comes out super moist. Well, the meatloaf didnt come out "dry"... but it was definitely more dense than usual. I had variables: the lady made the mix the night before (not good in my eyes), it could have been over-handled, they could have been too packed too tightly.

Less salt than before... I almost never cook with salt.

The flavors were great... Cant wait to try again.

 

[73saint]

Those look great! We love smoked meatloaf. Best sammy in the world. Cold meatloaf on white bread w mayo and pickles...yum!!!

 

[noboundaries]

Looks great from here!

 

[Xendau]

Thank you all... I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my food. "A BIT IS A F'IN' UNDERSTATEMENT! Who are you kidding?!" Is what my lady said reading me post this.

 

[SmokinAl]

That meat loaf looks pretty darn good to me!
Al

 

[gmc2003]

Looks really good to me also. I always have some smoked meatloaf slices sitting vacuum sealed in the freezer ready for a dinner at work.

Point for sure.
Chris

 

[hardcookin]

Nice Smoke!!

 

[TomKnollRFV]

Trying to figure out how this isn't a good looking meatloaf! That is how I like meatloaf, sticky glaze from the saucing!

 

[Xendau]

Thanks all! It was just a bit on the dry side. I probably should have just taken it out at an earlier IT.

 

[Bearcarver]

Looks Great from the Bear Den!!!
At What IT Temp did you remove it?
Nice Job!
Like.

Bear

 

[Xendau]

Looks Great from the Bear Den!!!
At What IT Temp did you remove it?
Nice Job!
Like.
Bear

Bearcarver - I took it out at 165 degrees... Im thinking I should have removed it at 155.

 

[Bearcarver]

Bearcarver - I took it out at 165 degrees... Im thinking I should have removed it at 155.

Meat loaf from Ground Beef should reach at least 160° before serving.
I tend to take mine to 165° to make sure ALL of it got to at least 160°.

Bear

 

[Xendau]

Meat loaf from Ground Beef should reach at least 160° before serving.
I tend to take mine to 165° to make sure ALL of it got to at least 160°.

Bear

I was taught 165 for any ground products, but I usually have my burger pink depending on the establishment or if I make them. Figure if I pulled at 155 and let set, it may have been less dry.

Ill tinker with the recipe some for the smoker. I looked at Jeff's recipe, it looks nice, but I like a classic meatloaf (no BBQ rub, no cheese, classic topping sauce tomato/ketchup based). Ill try it one go, who knows, I may love it. lol

 

[johnmeyer]

You don't need to go to 160, or anything close to that, if you don't want. Remember that the USDA temperature guidelines (which do indeed recommend 160) do so because at that temperature everything will be killed almost instantly. However, as many people have posted in these forums, you can achieve the same level of safety, at MUCH lower temperatures, if you quickly get the meat through the "danger zone," and then once it reaches 130, leave it at a given temperature for at least the time shown in the following table. If you do this, the food will be safe to eat.

Here is a link to the USDA's own time vs. temperature safety chart:

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

As you can see, you can cook to a nice medium-rare temperature if you get it to 140 and then keep it there for at least ten minutes. This is pretty easy to do in most smokers, since low heat is used.

 

[Bearcarver]

You don't need to go to 160, or anything close to that, if you don't want. Remember that the USDA temperature guidelines (which do indeed recommend 160) do so because at that temperature everything will be killed almost instantly. However, as many people have posted in these forums, you can achieve the same level of safety, at MUCH lower temperatures, if you quickly get the meat through the "danger zone," and then once it reaches 130, leave it at a given temperature for at least the time shown in the following table. If you do this, the food will be safe to eat.

Here is a link to the USDA's own time vs. temperature safety chart:

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

As you can see, you can cook to a nice medium-rare temperature if you get it to 140 and then keep it there for at least ten minutes. This is pretty easy to do in most smokers, since low heat is used.

John, We're talking about Ground Beef Meat Loaf here!! Without an SV.
I'd take it to 160°.

Bear

 

[Xendau]

You don't need to go to 160, or anything close to that, if you don't want. Remember that the USDA temperature guidelines (which do indeed recommend 160) do so because at that temperature everything will be killed almost instantly. However, as many people have posted in these forums, you can achieve the same level of safety, at MUCH lower temperatures, if you quickly get the meat through the "danger zone," and then once it reaches 130, leave it at a given temperature for at least the time shown in the following table. If you do this, the food will be safe to eat.

Here is a link to the USDA's own time vs. temperature safety chart:

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009

As you can see, you can cook to a nice medium-rare temperature if you get it to 140 and then keep it there for at least ten minutes. This is pretty easy to do in most smokers, since low heat is used.

John... Thanks for the info. I am quite familiar with food safety and handling. I was a Le Cordon Bleu (Atlanta) Grad, and a line cook for any number of high end to Michelin Star restaurants (before going back to my first career). I have also been a personal chef for a few years.

I rarely allow ground meats to go under 155 if I have not ground the meat myself, or have not seen it ground. Too many horror stories of people picking up meat, deciding they dont want it, but dont take it back to the refrigerated section and employees not know how long the meat has sat at unsafe temps, take it back to the meat department for the next unsuspecting customer.

I have to know the establishment, and sometimes the cook, if I ever get a burger a lil' pink like I prefer them.

Sorry, not saying youre wrong, Im just hyper aware of food safety. I often have multiple people I am feeding, and would feel terrible if I, or any of them, got sick from my mishandling or assuming.

 

[johnmeyer]

Either the USDA chart I linked to is correct, or it isn't. If it is, then what I said above is correct, and my advice does not violate any food safety rules.

If you believe in science, then temperature and time are all that matters, not whether you cook the meat via sous vide, the smoker, the skillet, the microwave, or the oven. The microbes don't know where the heat is coming from, nor do they know whether they are in beef that is whole, or beef that has been ground, or meat that has sat on the butcher floor for two hours. If you follow the chart, they will succumb.

The one mandatory item, regardless of whether you cook to 135 or 160, is a good thermometer.

I certainly don't want to start any arguments, so by all means cook the meat to whatever temperature you want. I only responded because the complaint was that it came out "on the dry side." No surprise: given the temperature, that is what you are going to get.

 

[Bearcarver]

Either the USDA chart I linked to is correct, or it isn't. If it is, then what I said above is correct, and my advice does not violate any food safety rules.

If you believe in science, then temperature and time are all that matters, not whether you cook the meat via sous vide, the smoker, the skillet, the microwave, or the oven. The microbes don't know where the heat is coming from, nor do they know whether they are in beef that is whole, or beef that has been ground, or meat that has sat on the butcher floor for two hours. If you follow the chart, they will succumb.

The one mandatory item, regardless of whether you cook to 135 or 160, is a good thermometer.

I certainly don't want to start any arguments, so by all means cook the meat to whatever temperature you want. I only responded because the complaint was that it came out "on the dry side." No surprise: given the temperature, that is what you are going to get.

I believe this is a follow-up to the link you posted:

PUBLIC HEALTH SIGNIFICANCE
The FDA Food Code § 3-401.11(A)(1) applies to fish and meat, including game animals, and specifies that the products can be cooked to 63°C (145°F) for 15 seconds. This time and temperature combination is only appropriate for intact portion cuts of meat, because the contamination is expected to be on the outside of the product, so the product should be safe if the external surface is cooked to 145°F (National Advisory Committee on Microbiological Criteria for Foods, 1997). Although there are exceptions in § 3-401.11(A)(2) for non intact products (mechanically tenderized, injected, or comminuted), it is not clear that the instructions in § 3-401.11(A)(1) only apply to intact products. Therefore FSIS and FDA recommend a new definition for the word INTACT MEAT as follows:

"Intact meat" means a cut of whole muscle(s) MEAT that has not undergone comminution, injection, mechanical tenderization, or reconstruction.

Adding this new definition to the FDA Food Code will clarify which instructions apply to intact meat and which apply to non-intact meat. Making these clarifications would alleviate confusion and ensure that retailers cook meat products using the proper times and temperatures to ensure food safety.

Section 3-401.11(A)(2) applies to mechanically tenderized meats and specifies that they should be cooked at 68°C (155°F) for 15 seconds. However, according to the FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks, non-intact products should be held at 68°C (155°F) for 17 seconds. Other time and temperature combinations in the table in § 3-401.11(A)(2) would also provide a 5-log reduction of Salmonella in these products. Therefore, FSIS and FDA recommend that the time the product is held is increased from 15 seconds to 17 seconds to be consistent with the table, and the other time and temperature combinations from the table in the FSIS guidance are provided in the Annex.

Section 3-401.11(A)(3) applies to poultry products and recommends that they are cooked at 74°C (165°F) or above for 15 seconds. According to the FSIS guidance in the Time-Temperature Tables for Cooking Ready-to-Eat (RTE) Poultry Products, poultry products can be cooked to 74°C (165°F) instantaneous to achieve a 7-log reduction of Salmonella. Therefore, FSIS and FDA recommend deleting the 15 second dwell time from the minimum criteria specified in that subparagraph and changing it to instantaneous. This change is also consistent with CFP Issue # 2002-I-33, which recommended that USDA and FDA work together to establish instantaneous cooking temperatures for animal products that have minimum dwell time of 15 seconds. In addition, FSIS and FDA recommend that retailers have the option of cooking poultry products using the additional time and temperature combinations in the FSIS poultry tables and adding this information in the Food Code Annex.


Bear

 

[Xendau]

johnmeyer - Sorry, but either the government has conflicting information, or your chart is not referencing ground meat. My apologies, but in culinary school, safe cooking temp taught for ground meat is 160 to 165.

The website for USDA/FSIS states, "To destroy harmful bacteria, cook ground beef to a safe minimum internal temperature of 160 °F (71.1 °C)."

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...paration/ground-beef-and-food-safety/ct_index

9th paragraph, last sentence.

No arguments, just facts.

 

[johnmeyer]

I am not trying to argue either, but the last two post are very confusing to me. Basically, what the last two posts say is that sous vide cooking recommendations are very dangerous and should not be followed. After all, one of the main features of sous vide is the ability to cook food to much lower finishing temperatures, and still have it safe, because of what is contained in that chart I linked to above.

Should I believe these last two posts, or should I believe what I read in most sous vide sites?

Here is one such site which discusses how to make the "ultimate" hamburger. Since hamburger and meatloaf are basically the same thing (both use ground beef), I think this applies here:

The Food Lab's Complete Guide to Sous Vide Burgers

If you scroll halfway down that page, you'll see the temperatures recommended, and they range from 120 to 155, all of them below 160.

And this is for ground beef, not "intact" meat.

So, as I said above, if you follow what is being said in these last posts, you should quit using your sous vide machine the way the manufacturer, the web sites, and many people in this forum recommend using it. Heck, the whole reason I even know about that chart is by reading dozens of posts here in this forum, over in the sous vide section.

I am confused.