Fire Management - Version Umpteen

[dave schiller]

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Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.

Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.

This leads to the fundamental question; does smoking meat REQUIRE burning wood exclusively?  Perhaps for the best results, it does.  But the fact that the stick burners are probably outnumbered by the total of electric, gas, and other types of smokers (like the WSM) tells me that there is more than one way to smoke meat with good results.

It would be interesting to make a valid side by side comparison of the different methods using identical cuts of meat.  Probably not practical, but interesting.

 

[cksteele]

hmm i run a small offset a oak joe  sealed it up added baffle plate  extended the smoke stack inside semi insulated the  firebox w fire bricks.  i run  100% wood splits, usually run 275-285  temp range   id agree with you on your first point.

i usually start out with a dozen charcoal  lumps to get the  splits lit on but then its  100%wood 

but once you Learn how to cook with wood splits  you can burn a clean fire  a majority of the cook and keep it in a real tight temp zone.  when i get into a rhythm   on the smoker most of the time you cant even see  smoke coming outta the stack and thats with burning  wood exclusively.

i mean if you dont have the time to spend doing it your way is perfectly fine. i used to do it that way too on my WSM  but i can def taste  a difference  burning 100% wood for heat and good smoke.i smell the smoke coming out of the stack and its sweet  almost with a nutty buttery scent to it.

but to each his own there are the whole rainbow of smokers on here from stick burners to electric smokers to kettle cookers and everything in between if you enjoy what  you do  thats the main thing 

 

[lancep]

First, you're absolutely right. I actually use both methods. It's the reason I got the pit that I did. I wanted a stick burner but couldn't give up the overnight convenience of my WSM. If I have the time, I burn wood. If I don't, I burn charcoal with a split on top for smoke. For long smokes, where I wrap, I'll burn wood until it's time to wrap them scrape my coals to the center, fill each side with unlit briquettes and a " bridge" over top to make sure they light. Then I set the vents for charcoal and walk away.

Second, it was certainly not my intent to diminish other heat sources or techniques. My post was in response to your summation that had you burned an all wood fire your brisket would have been even smokier. As I tried to say, burning a wood fire and using wood for flavor are to very different animals and require a different approach. Adding smoke for flavor is just like any other ingredient. The trick is to add enough without adding too much. Stick burning is more about managing the cleanest fire you can while keeping your smoker in your temp range. I sincerely apologize if my post caused any offense or came of condescending or dismissive in any way.

Lance

 

[bluewhisper]

One factor I'm dealing with for now is, my main stash of maple isn't yet a full year cured. It looks and handles like it's cured, but there's still a little bit of harshness compared to commercial chunks. Close, though. It does burn reliably and almost all of it is straight and easy to split. Most pieces are about 3 inches diameter and 8 inches long. I have a lot of it.

 

[dave schiller]

Lance. absolutely no offense taken.  In fact, I'm not sure what you think you said that would offend me.  As Joe Black said, "This is a great exchange of thought and personal needs."  That's what it's supposed to about.  I have seen other forums on other subjects that sometimes get testy, but not here.  Besides, I'm too old and thick skinned to be offended. 

 

 

[lancep]

That's the way I am Dave but after years of my wife sayin "tone it down, you're not talking to Marines anymore " I've learned to check myself. It just seemed like the thread was taking a turn towards stick burners vs everything else and I wanted to make sure that wasn't how I was coming across. And Joe is right and that's what I love about this forum. The fact that differing opinions and preferences can be discussed with decency and civility. Not something easily found on the interwebs.

 

[Rings Я Us]

Don't nobody be bad mouthing my precious. Lol

IMG_20170704_121812.jpg

• Rings Я Us
• Jul 10, 2017

[emoji]129301[/emoji]

 

[uzikaduzi]

In my stick burner I don't worry about it being sealed up... infact I run door with the exhaust in it completely open. If I'm running a little hotter then I like, i have a crushed beer can I wedge in the upper door on the fire box at various places which hold It cracked open to various degrees. I'm adding 1-2 splits every 45minutes-1hour.

Certainly I don't have as tight of control as running charcoal in some form of the minion method, but I have ranges I can hit and stay in pretty consistently mainly with the size and number of splits I use, but also my beer can helps... I can hit and run the following ranges pretty easily 210-230, 250-270, and 300-325. Others may disagree, but I've never noticed this variation cause any difference in the final product but more importantly I can run a very clean and hot burning fire. I only get dirty smoke when I start her up... this is likely made easier that I use 70-100% oak and only use other woods in that 30% range to keep things consistent.

My stick burner isn't much of a leaker, but I'm not sure it would matter much with my method

 

[bluewhisper]

My firebox has the typical round vent mounted in a swinging door. For most use I can set the round vent to get the air flow I want, but sometimes like startups I might swing the door open, too.

I also have a bigger round vent at the other end of the cooking chamber. For smoking it's always closed but I open it when I'm grilling in the cooking chamber.

In the last few months I've been experimenting at smoking with the fire in the cooking chamber, at the firebox end, with a mix of lump and wood. The food is on the grate at the exhaust end. Sort of pretending to be a Weber kettle. Then the temps can go much higher and the smokiness will depend on how much wood I have in the mix. If I want a bit of char I can move the food closer to the fire, or over it.

I have three grates, two wide and one narrow, and I often run it without one of the grates so I can slide the other two around as I like. It depends on what I'm cooking.

The Good Neighbor:

good_neighbor.jpg

• bluewhisper
• Jul 10, 2017

As far as I know, this is the only Masterbuilt offset on this board. I got it at a Sears hardware store so it's probably a model made for that market. Does anyone else have one?

 

[uzikaduzi]

That looks like a common one that's rebranded... I had it branded as a New Braunfels... it was quite a bit of work to control temps with it, but it was my first smoker so there was also a bit of a learning curve for me (coupled with the internet not being what it is today when I owned it)

People complain about them, but I certainly made some good bbq on it... I ended up burning out the fire box after 2 years trying to use it as a stick burner

 

[bluewhisper]

I've been running mine since May 2012 and it's still fine. I've completely scorched the paint on the firebox so it has superficial rust, but I don't care about looks. The OEM fire grate is pretty lame, sagging from heat,  so I retired it and now I run a fire basket. See my sig link for details.

Edited to add, I try to keep the firebox clean, not leave ash in it, because i suspect that old ash can hold moisture which promotes rust - especially in winter with cold/warm temperature swings.

 

[sc smoke]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I came on to search for 'why after my charcoal dies down in my OKJ Highlander, and I add wood to keep temperature, I lose my TBS and get white smoke'.  (I do have wood in with the charcoal, too)  This post helped me understand why and what I could do to minimize it.  

(I've been through the learning curve of having enough thick grey-white smoke that it looked like a new Pope was elected and meat taste like creosote).

Great info, glad I'm a member.

 

[uzikaduzi]

I've been running mine since May 2012 and it's still fine. I've completely scorched the paint on the firebox so it has superficial rust, but I don't care about looks. The OEM fire grate is pretty lame, sagging from heat,  so I retired it and now I run a fire basket. See my sig link for details.

Edited to add, I try to keep the firebox clean, not leave ash in it, because i suspect that old ash can hold moisture which promotes rust - especially in winter with cold/warm temperature swings.

I think your absolutely correct about keeping it cleaned out... quite impressive that it's still going strong for that long!

 

[uzikaduzi]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I came on to search for 'why after my charcoal dies down in my OKJ Highlander, and I add wood to keep temperature, I lose my TBS and get white smoke'.  (I do have wood in with the charcoal, too)  This post helped me understand why and what I could do to minimize it.  
(I've been through the learning curve of having enough thick grey-white smoke that it looked like a new Pope was elected and meat taste like creosote).
Great info, glad I'm a member.

Clean hot fire with plenty of air is the key to good smoke... even in those cases you can still get dirty smoke when adding new wood... a lot of guys prewarm them on the lid of the fire box and it helps a lot... I'm blessed with low humid triple digit summers and laying them in the sun seems to be enough for me

 

[hardcookin]

Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.

Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.

This leads to the fundamental question; does smoking meat REQUIRE burning wood exclusively?  Perhaps for the best results, it does.  But the fact that the stick burners are probably outnumbered by the total of electric, gas, and other types of smokers (like the WSM) tells me that there is more than one way to smoke meat with good results.

It would be interesting to make a valid side by side comparison of the different methods using identical cuts of meat.  Probably not practical, but interesting.

I think stick burners are out numbered by electric and gas smokers for a couple reasons
1. Price point...decent size offsets are not cheap...where you can get the other type smokers for 300-400 dollars.
2. People just want to set and forget and get a good nights sleep. Where with an offset your feeding it wood all night long.

Where a offset shines is with flavor and volume.

 

[SmokinAl]

I think stick burners are out numbered by electric and gas smokers for a couple reasons
1. Price point...decent size offsets are not cheap...where you can get the other type smokers for 300-400 dollars.
2. People just want to set and forget and get a good nights sleep. Where with an offset your feeding it wood all night long.

Where a offset shines is with flavor and volume.

You can't beat the flavor from a wood fire.

I have 4 smokers, electric, propane, charcoal, & wood.

They all produce very good Q, but the flavor winner is the stick burner. IMHO!

Al

 

[jokensmoken]

Well, back to the topic after the humorous interlude.

Obviously, lots of folks burn pure wood for heat AND smoke with great success.  And based on the large number of posters looking for sources of bagged wood chips, I doubt they are using wood totally.  So probably there are a lot of electric and gas smokers out there.  I guess they get good results or they would all be switching to stick burners.

This leads to the fundamental question; does smoking meat REQUIRE burning wood exclusively?  Perhaps for the best results, it does.  But the fact that the stick burners are probably outnumbered by the total of electric, gas, and other types of smokers (like the WSM) tells me that there is more than one way to smoke meat with good results.

It would be interesting to make a valid side by side comparison of the different methods using identical cuts of meat.  Probably not practical, but interesting.

I've done that with three butts.
One was cooked in my MB GASSER with a smoke tube with Lumberjack pellets mixed half and half apple and maple, one on my modified bullet with Webber's charcoal with apple and maple chunks and a third on an old Okie Joe stick burner I started with charcoal then maintained with maple and apple splits.
The butts we're in the 10 pound range and prepped the same way...The stick burner cooked the quickest, due to the slightly higher temps the Gasser next with the bullet taking slightly longer. All had a great bark and pulled nicely and were served with no finishing or BBQ sauce.
Keeping in mind butts are very forgiving and kinda hard to screw up, my guests couldn't notice any difference...I personally like the stick burner but it could be the ambiance and asthetics of burning wood...on butts, side by side it was difficult to discern much difference...BUT AGAIN that's on big ole butts...not sure about ribs or chicken...I suspect the difference would be more noticeable.
The most notable difference was in the smoke ring.
The stick burner had the most pronounced ring...the bullet smoker was next with a slight ring and I had almost no ring from the Gasser.
NOW...all that being said, I prefer my stick burner when I've got the time...
Walt.