Electric smoker alternative

[Nefarious]

I'm trying to sort out what I am going to do about my smoker situation. I have a gas smoke vault 18 smoker that I tried to build a mailbox mod for that failed. The interesting part is,even if it had worked I would still be in the samp.position. I need/want more control so I can smoke sausage. I've thought about replacing it with a pellet smoker but can't get the low temps.

I then thought about replacing it with MES 30,which implies selling the smoke vault. i cant walk very much at this point but I can think. This morning I had the idea of why not just convert the smoke vault into an electric smoker.

So, how would that go:
Remove the gas burner.
Get a piece of plate steel or aluminum to cover the entire bottom.
Use a hot water heater element, 120v ac with solenoid and a PID.

i already have a mailbox mod for the smoke vault, and I have modified the stack.

I could add some thermal mass in the bottom with some blocks and on the sides using hardieboard.

 

[Ringer]

You can get an mes 40 heating element on Amazon relatively cheap. Remove gas burner, cover hole. Get a pid. May want to look at convection oven fans too. You will want to add some sort of grease deflector over the element to keep fires at bay

 

[mosparky]

I would nix the water heater element idea first. They have a very small surface area and are meant to work with a 40+ gallon heat sink.
Oven or MES element is a far better choice.

 

[zwiller]

Used MES on FB Marketplace here are CHEAP.

 

[DougE]

I would nix the water heater element idea first. They have a very small surface area and are meant to work with a 40+ gallon heat sink.
Oven or MES element is a far better choice.

This is correct. If the water goes off and the elements in your water heater become exposed to air, they will burn out. They're meant to be submerged in water.

 

[DougE]

I'll pose a question for consideration if you go with the MES element. Is it going to put out enough heat for the vault? The MES has insulation, but I don't know if your vault does. If not, you may need more heat than the MES element will supply.

 

[Nefarious]

I would nix the water heater element idea first. They have a very small surface area and are meant to work with a 40+ gallon heat sink.
Oven or MES element is a far better choice.

Sorry, I'm still not thinking correctly. I just have the element from the e- brewery I never finished.

 

[Nefarious]

I'll pose a question for consideration if you go with the MES element. Is it going to put out enough heat for the vault? The MES has insulation, but I don't know if your vault does. If not, you may need more heat than the MES element will supply.

I haven't done any calculations yet, just wanted to get the idea down. I have 2 separate 120v circuits and 1 240v circuit that I could use. So, if I need I can use two elements.

And, I plan to add enough thermal mass to retain as much of the heat generated as possible. I will put cement blocks on the plate that covers the gas hole. And I plan to line the sides with Hardie board. Not all of the sides, just enough to help stabilize the heat in the smoker.

 

[Nefarious]

I'll pose a question for consideration if you go with the MES element. Is it going to put out enough heat for the vault? The MES has insulation, but I don't know if your vault does. If not, you may need more heat than the MES element will supply.

So I did some checking, and here are some sizes

Mes 40: w=29, h=50, d=26 => 37,700
Mes 30: w=21, h=40, d=20 => 16,800
Sv 18: w=18, h=44, d=16 => 12,672
So,the smoke vault is smaller then either the mes 30 or mes 40

The heater element for the mes 30 is 800 watts and for the mes 40 is 1200 watts. Since P=I * V => I = P/V. At.fill blast the mes 40 element will draw 10A and the mes 30 element will only draw 6.66A.

And this is at full blast, at lower temperatures it will be less. I already have a 20A circuit in my outdoor kitchen design, I don't need either of the other circuits mentioned above.

 

[Ringer]

So I did some checking, and here are some sizes

Mes 40: w=29, h=50, d=26 => 37,700
Mes 30: w=21, h=40, d=20 => 16,800
Sv 18: w=18, h=44, d=16 => 12,672
So,the smoke vault is smaller then either the mes 30 or mes 40

The heater element for the mes 30 is 800 watts and for the mes 40 is 1200 watts. Since P=I * V => I = P/V. At.fill blast the mes 40 element will draw 10A and the mes 30 element will only draw 6.66A.

And this is at full blast, at lower temperatures it will be less. I already have a 20A circuit in my outdoor kitchen design, I don't need either of the other circuits mentioned above.

How thick is the wall insulation on the SV?

 

[Nefarious]

How thick is the wall insulation on the SV?

Zero

 

[Ringer]

Zero

Wow, I wasn't expecting that. You may want to look at some good insulation before figuring the heating element. For reference my mes 30 walls are 1 inch thick, composed of 2 thin gauge pieces of stamped sheet metal filled with what appears to be the expanding closed cell foam spray insulation. The 800 watt element that came in it takes a while to get it up to temp but with a pid it holds steady.

Either way your pid will control things but some insulation would allow for a much more efficient unit.

 

[Nefarious]

There is more then one way to help the smoker retain heat. Insulation is of course a good one, not sure if it is the best. My plan is as follows:

For the bottom I will buy a 24"x24" paving stone from HD and cut it to fit the bottom. I will put a spacer, about 3/8" under the four corners and the middle to elevate it above floor. This will allow some of the heat radiating from the heat element to be absorbed and will dissapate back into the smoker. The paver will also give it some mass, which it needs. Even opening the door can cause the smoker to slide on the patio.
For the walls I plan to put panels of Hardie backer board two layers thick and again offset from the wall by 3/8". This will also retain some of the heat and will radiate back into the smoker

 

[Ringer]

There is more then one way to help the smoker retain heat. Insulation is of course a good one, not sure if it is the best. My plan is as follows:

For the bottom I will buy a 24"x24" paving stone from HD and cut it to fit the bottom. I will put a spacer, about 3/8" under the four corners and the middle to elevate it above floor. This will allow some of the heat radiating from the heat element to be absorbed and will dissapate back into the smoker. The paver will also give it some mass, which it needs. Even opening the door can cause the smoker to slide on the patio.
For the walls I plan to put panels of Hardie backer board two layers thick and again offset from the wall by 3/8". This will also retain some of the heat and will radiate back into the smoker

The thermal mass of the paver will help it retain some of the heat. The hardie board on the outside will help too. Based on the size you might be able to get away with the 800 watt element as long as thermal loss isn't out of control.

 

[Nefarious]

The thermal mass of the paver will help it retain some of the heat. The hardie board on the outside will help too. Based on the size you might be able to get away with the 800 watt element as long as thermal loss isn't out of control.

I am putting the Hardie board on the inside.

I can't even go out to the garage to look at it, so everything is in the air. I thought I would get the 1200 watt element and if I never have to take it all the way to the top I still haven't lost anything. Then I can add thermal mass and play around with what I need until I zero in on it.

 

[Ringer]

Just a thought before putting hardie board on the inside. It has been shown to contain some carcinogens.

https://www.jameshardie.com/JamesHardieMainSite/media/Site-Documents/TechnicalDocuments/msds-exterior-medium-density.pdf

Other than that yes, I think the 1200 is the way to go. I forgot you had surgery. How is the recovery going?

 

[Nefarious]

Recovery is ok, slow for sure. I can't bear weight except for crutches. It has been 3 days post surgery, and I am bored to tears. I can sit on the couch, foot elevated, ice, and rest. It is a little painful still, I elected to not take any of the hard meds they gave me.

Thanks for asking.

I will have to wait a few days to read that doc you sent, i can't make much sense of it yet with all of the different product names.

I do appreciate the pointer. I do know people that have used it smoke houses. I will have to look into it more.

 

[Fueling Around]

Tile backer board is not as hazardous as the Hardie board siding. Most of the hazard is in the cutting for the released silica.

If you put it on the interior what does that do to your racks?

Good luck on the recovery. I broke a little toe on my foot over 20 years ago. Painful and it took a long time to heal.

 

[normanaj]

Negative on the hardie-board on the inside unless you want to poison anyone eating food done in that smoker. Wrap the smoker in a welders blanket.

 

[Nefarious]

Negative on the hardie-board on the inside unless you want to poison anyone eating food done in that smoker. Wrap the smoker in a welders blanket.

Can you link the evidence for this? I know people who already use it for similar purpose.