Does adding stuff to a brine....

[kjolly]

I always put oranges or blood oranges in my poultry brine. Been doing it for years, and everyone who's eaten that turkey or chicken has told me they taste the citrus in it. I always do as well.

Don't need a book, television show, online troll, or fancy chef to tell me what I'm tasting is wrong.

If you try it in your brine, like it in your brine, use it in your brine. To many cooks in the kitchen sometimes.

He makes sense to me. If it works use it.

 

[stovebolt]

 Thanks for some level-headed, common-sense posts form many members of SMF. That's why I like it here.

Chuck

 

[SmokyMose]

I don't see how you can soak something porous (like meat) in a liquid for hours and not have at least some of the flavors soak in. How much might be debatable, but what can it hurt?

 

[SmokyMose]

Meant to say fibrous in that last post, not porous. Oops.

 

[ak1]

It's not going to hurt, but it will not necessarily help. Most of those added flavours will stay close to the surface of the meat. Once you eat it, those surface flavours will get mixed with the interior as you chew.

Still, I wouldn't hesitate to add some extra flavours to a brine, because as JimmyJ says, it's all about adding layers of flavour. 

 

[daveomak]

 

[wade]

I don't see how you can soak something fibrous (like meat) in a liquid for hours and not have at least some of the flavors soak in. How much might be debatable, but what can it hurt?

Meat is not simply a fibrous mass, it is made up of a number of different structures and these include different size blood vessels - arteries, veins and capillaries. There is also fluid filled spaces between the cells through which soluble flavours can diffuse

This takes time though and so the amount of penetration will depend on the time that the flavours are left in contact with the meat. As this thread is talking about brining this could range from an hour up to 10+ days. In 24 hours the flavours may only penetrate a few millimetres but by 10-14 days, in most cuts of meat, the flavours in the brine will have diffused right through the meat. The longer the meat is in the brine the more of the brine (up to a point) that will be absorbed into the meat fabric - along with any added flavours. Below is a graph from a recent study showing the increase in weight of pork joints after 7 and 14 days immersion in brine.

Brine1WeightIncrease.jpeg

• wade
• Dec 22, 2015

 

[wade]

Good video Dave - thanks

 

[boykjo]

Here is a marinated pork loin.  The wife likes them but I don't buy them anymore because the flavor is way too strong, over marinated IMO and you don't taste the pork at all. I always assumed the flavor enhancement penetrated all the way through the meat to the center hence no pork flavor. I may re visit one and slice out a center piece and see the marinade flavor made it to the middle or if its the surface marinade mixed with the center when eating. I'm sure the wife wont mind....

smithfield pork loin.jpg

• boykjo
• Dec 22, 2015

[h4]Nutrition Facts[/h4]
Serving Size 4.0 oz (112 g)

Servings Per Container 7

Calories 140	Calories from Fat 50

[th=""]Amount Per Serving[/th]

Total Fat 6 g	9%
Saturated Fat 2 g 10%
Trans Fat 0 g
Cholesterol 50 mg	17%
Sodium 540 mg	23%
Potassium —	—
Total Carbohydrate 4 g	1%
Dietary Fiber 0 g 0%
Sugars 0 g
Protein 19 g

[th=""]% Daily Value*[/th]

Vitamin A	2%
Vitamin C	0%
Calcium	2%
Iron	6%
Copper	—
Folic Acid	—
Iodine	—
Magnesium	—
Niacin	—
Phosphorus	—
Riboflavin	—
Thiamin	—
Vitamin B12	—
Vitamin B6	—
Vitamin D	—
Vitamin E	—
Zinc	—

• * Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.

 

[ak1]

What was in that brine Wade? Was it simply a salt solution?

 

[hoity toit]

 
Here is a marinated pork loin.  The wife likes them but I don't buy them anymore because the flavor is way too strong, over marinated IMO and you don't taste the pork at all. I always assumed the flavor enhancement penetrated all the way through the meat to the center hence no pork flavor. I may re visit one and slice out a center piece and see the marinade flavor made it to the middle or if its the surface marinade mixed with the center when eating. I'm sure the wife wont mind....

smithfield pork loin.jpg

• boykjo
• Dec 22, 2015

[h4]Nutrition Facts[/h4]
Serving Size 4.0 oz (112 g)

Servings Per Container 7

Calories 140	Calories from Fat 50

[th=""]Amount Per Serving[/th]

Total Fat 6 g	9%
Saturated Fat 2 g 10%
Trans Fat 0 g
Cholesterol 50 mg	17%
Sodium 540 mg	23%
Potassium —	—
Total Carbohydrate 4 g	1%
Dietary Fiber 0 g 0%
Sugars 0 g
Protein 19 g

[th=""]% Daily Value*[/th]

Vitamin A	2%
Vitamin C	0%
Calcium	2%
Iron	6%
Copper	—
Folic Acid	—
Iodine	—
Magnesium	—
Niacin	—
Phosphorus	—
Riboflavin	—
Thiamin	—
Vitamin B12	—
Vitamin B6	—
Vitamin D	—
Vitamin E	—
Zinc	—

• * Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.

I feel the same way, those pre marinated packages at the store suck, plus they do not have the flavor my taste buds are looking for. Always better to do things from scratch if you have the time.

 

[ak1]

You're missing the point Dave. There is no disagreement about the benefits of marinating or even brining. Where the discussion is is wether adding additional flavouring to the brine does much to actually enhance the flavour of the meat in terms of actually penetrating the meat.

Here's an interesting article; http://cooking.stackexchange.com/qu...-a-brine-penetrate-chicken-experiment-results.

In the interests of full disclosure, I haven't tried this yet, but I will soon.

 

[wade]

I cannot find the ingredients list for this particular product but often there is way too much salt and usually a flavour enhancer or two.

 

[wade]

Very interesting clip Dave - thanks

 

[wade]

 
What was in that brine Wade? Was it simply a salt solution?

No - there were two different brines in the test. One was POPs low salt brine and the other was one that DDF was discussing. Both increased the meat weight by similar amounts. You can see the tests and results here.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/181560/immersion-bacon-curing-lab-test-results

 

[wade]

 
Here's an interesting article; http://cooking.stackexchange.com/qu...-a-brine-penetrate-chicken-experiment-results.

In the interests of full disclosure, I haven't tried this yet, but I will soon.

A very interesting link - thanks. The effects may be different with different meats. I too will be giving it a try with chicken to see how it compares with pork. I was planning on using beetroot powder (betanin) or maybe something like Tartrazine for colour.

Another difference that may need to be considered is that chicken breast is usually an (almost) intact muscle whereas something like a pork loin or belly will have been cross cut - exposing a cross section of the muscle fibres.

 

[daveomak]

You're missing the point Dave. There is no disagreement about the benefits of marinating or even brining. Where the discussion is is wether adding additional flavouring to the brine does much to actually enhance the flavour of the meat in terms of actually penetrating the meat.

Here's an interesting article; http://cooking.stackexchange.com/qu...-a-brine-penetrate-chicken-experiment-results.

In the interests of full disclosure, I haven't tried this yet, but I will soon.

I may have missed the point, BUT... I thought the 3 different techniques of marinating were very interesting....

 

[wade]

I may have missed the point, BUT... I thought the 3 different techniques of marinating were very interesting....

I always vac pac my meat when it is marinating - not because I expected it to reduce moisture loss when cooking but more to prevent leakage in the fridge and just to keep the marinade close to the meat. The clip shows that there may also be an added advantage that I hadn't really considered. Thanks again Dave.

I guess one of the penetration tests may need to be vac packed vs non vac packed. This is getting away a bit from the original brining question though.

 

[mr t 59874]

Since the white of an egg is protein, like meat is a protein, below is an example of beet root juice penetrating an egg white.....

Pickled_egg.jpg

• daveomak
• Dec 19, 2015

fI​

If you are one who believes flavors do not penetrate egg yolk.  I invite you come and try one of these.  http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137459/bible-school-eggs

T

 

[tino70]

Here is a good source

I feel it best to go to the horses head and not the other end. I like to use "Tender Quick" for brining, especially wild game. I have used it to make a goose breast "pastrami", I put pepper corn, mustard seed and fennel seed in the brine and it turns out great. I use honey and kosher salt in the brine for smoking my thanksgiving turkey.